Help, what is this? Check Images- Need Info

frdmftr · 02-26-2007, 07:55 PM

In the past week, all of you have helped me identify (at least I'm closer) the beast that lies within (under the hood).

I have attached some pics that I hope you can help me lasso this animal.

Here is what I have for specs/eng codes-
388242D front of block
'C' code on head

The left exhaust exits the center of the manifold, crosses underneath the oil pan (factory relief it appears) and aligns to the right exhaust to run parallel aft, separating along each side of driveshaft, jumping over rear diff, coming out the rear looking very clean, neat, normal

. The real oddity

is the right side manifold has 'two' outlets, one aft with the pipe, one forward that appears to have a 'plug' installed

.

Take a look at the pics and offer any info/advice/warnings you feel I need.

Thanks again for bringing me up to speed.

Dave
(FRDMFTR)

texasred · 02-26-2007, 08:06 PM

Take another look at those motor numbers...I had to magnify the pic to see it...but they are really 389244D, which is a 66-67 425. 'C' heads were used 67-69.

The exhaust? That's for somebody else to answer.

C.J.

frdmftr · 02-26-2007, 08:10 PM

Thanks, my bad (eyes). Thats why this site is the best!

Oldsguy · 02-27-2007, 08:13 AM

I think the exhausts are someone's solution for a true dual setup from a stock single exhaust. from your description about the driver's manifold having a plugged opening and all. Looks very clean though and if it works, it works.

frdmftr · 02-27-2007, 11:24 AM

Thanks. The pipes back to the tips are all new and a very clean installation. It works well and I don't need to anticipate spending the $$ for a new set. I can put the $$ to areas that need it (though not much else is needed)

mwmjr · 02-27-2007, 11:07 PM

It appears that we have the same engine. I believe it is a 1967 425 that oldsmobile used for their big cars.

Let me know if you learn anymore..

70Wcars · 02-28-2007, 06:53 AM

Looks as if the exhaust was routed thru the " bump " in a Toronado oil pan...normally where the axle would go in the front wheel drive applications. Again I would need to see the " drill spot " on the top of the timing case to be sure, but my bet is this is a 45 degree engine block used in Toros to allow for lower hood lines.

Hope this helps

frdmftr · 02-28-2007, 08:58 AM

I looked last night for the spot you mentioned. Is this located on the timing chain cover, next to the oil filler? I agree that this is a 425, C heads (67) and most likely from a Toro. Everything runs great, no issues at all. I don't plan to do any more than is there (Edelbrock carb, manifold, and dual exhaust). I'm just getting specs for the 'just in case' I run into problems in the future. I plan to focus on the minor body details (alignment of steel and minor trim replacement).

Thanks everyone for the knowledge.

FRDMFTR

frdmftr · 03-02-2007, 10:34 AM

I see a lot of posts recommending the 455 'W-30' exhaust manifolds. I'm sure they are hard to get OEM but is there a company making new ones? Something to store on a shelf if/when I get around to running new tubes out of the 425 in my ride.

Oldsmaniac · 03-02-2007, 02:18 PM

If this 67 engine is in a 67 88 wouldnt it make sense that it is the original engine or do you know surely it was changed? A toro engine is a 39 degree block. C heads are 67 to 69 vintage big block heads. as for the exhaust it is surely someones customization for true duals.....W-30 manifolds wont work on a 67 B body car. The correct driver's side manifold is reproduced and available.

frdmftr · 03-02-2007, 08:04 PM

Answer a question with a question?

I don't have the history or background on this car. I also don't have a lot of 'Olds' knowledge and look to 'senior' members help, when offered. My engine questions are derived from the obvious conversion to dual exhaust, and a rather trick on at that. I'm assuming the following:

1. the 67 425ci was either 2 or 4 barrel carbed. The engine I have is now equipped with aftermarket intake and carb (both Edelbrock). Without knowing the original configuration, I cannot verify its origin.

2. They either were single pipe or duals. I am told that all duals went aft on opposite sides of the engine (not crossing over like mine has been routed). My concern stems from the drivers side crossing underneath the oil pan through what I assume is from a Toronado as it has the relief in it. I cannot believe that the single exhaust 67 Delta 88 had the same cross-over as the Toro did. Or am I way off-base?

3. I can only assume then that if I have a Toro oil pan, exhaust manifolds form a Toro (not verified either), and connot verify what the original intake (low profile) was, I can only assume the entire motor was from a Toro of the same vintage (1967).

That leads me back to the last post. Where (links, names, etc...) can I find the reproduction exhaust manifolds?

FRDMFTR

3.

Oldsmaniac · 03-03-2007, 06:27 AM

The repro, correct manifold often turns up on Ebay but can be bought from Thornton Reproductions....they specialize in 442 stuff but do have the S manifold. Im not convinced the oil pan is from a Toro....the car could have came with a 2 or 4bbl carb both of them single exhausted. The only way the car came with fact duals is if it had the Starfire engine. If it did most likely you would have the correct manifolds. The manifolds on your car are not Toro but single exhaust manifold(s). The passenger side manifold is the same for single or dual exhausted cars....the center hole on the passenger manifold is capped from the factory for duals with a bolt on cap. If nothing can be solved at 442.com with block numbers I would assume the engine is not Toro and the original one that your car was built with. A Toro oil pan gives and extra quart of oil....a lot of people in the 70's would swap pans for the added protection of another quart of oil. The sure way of telling if it is a Toro block is to pull the intake and measure a lifter......all Toro 425's had a

921 diameter lifter while the standard 425's had a smaller .842 lifter.

Eightupman · 03-03-2007, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frdmftr

I see a lot of posts recommending the 455 'W-30' exhaust manifolds. I'm sure they are hard to get OEM but is there a company making new ones? Something to store on a shelf if/when I get around to running new tubes out of the 425 in my ride.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frdmftr

That leads me back to the last post. Where (links, names, etc...) can I find the reproduction exhaust manifolds?

FRDMFTR

3.

Fusick or BAP is selling repros of those manifolds. W/Z manifolds I think???

www.fusick.com
www.oldsparts.com

John

frdmftr · 03-03-2007, 08:11 AM

I really appreciate the information you have given me. I learned alot and am confortable in stating that this engine is OEM to this car. I did the research in both 442.com and Wikipedia (surprisingly lots there, just watch for junk posts) as you all suggested. Good thing is it runs great and I don't anticipate tearing into it anytime soon.

Now all I need is for the weather to break its grip,

Happy Cruising........

FRDMFTR

Oldsguy · 03-06-2007, 07:37 PM

Thread necromancy here, I looked at those pictures again and the crossover of the driver's side is just like the stock single exhaust was done, except that the pipe does not join with the passenger side and instead passes to the aft of the car. Therefore I think the pan is a stock non-toro pan, it also looks identical to the pan on the 455's I own. I can't say for sure that it isn't a toro pan though.

Finally, as you said in your last post you are comfortable with it and it makes you happy. When the weather gets warmer you will probably find out for sure. It is still very nice and the work is well done.

BTW, for what it is worth, I just wonder how much heat is radiated into the oil pan from that crossover running underneath it? Probably doesn't make a lot of difference.

frdmftr · 03-07-2007, 07:48 AM

Thanks Oldsguy. I've learned alot in just two weeks with your help.

I feel confident now that this is the original engine and was 'converted' to dual exhaust via bypassing the rt side manifold. I was really confused (ignorant) by the oilpan as it had the relief I believed to only apply to the Toro's. I know better now.

As for performance, I've had it out a couple times, and finally with top down. It runs out very nice and from 60-90, its friggen' scary (according to my wife). she did not appreciate the demonstration.

Thanks everyone for the knowledge.

FRDMFTR

02-26-2007, 08:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
texasred Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 805	Take another look at those motor numbers...I had to magnify the pic to see it...but they are really 389244D, which is a 66-67 425. 'C' heads were used 67-69. The exhaust? That's for somebody else to answer. C.J. __________________ Home of the 1971 Cutlass Supreme convertible Super Karate Monkey Death Car.

02-27-2007, 08:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
Oldsguy Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 2,553	I think the exhausts are someone's solution for a true dual setup from a stock single exhaust. from your description about the driver's manifold having a plugged opening and all. Looks very clean though and if it works, it works. __________________ Dan '46 2 door

02-28-2007, 06:53 AM	#7 (permalink)
70Wcars Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 55	Looks as if the exhaust was routed thru the " bump " in a Toronado oil pan...normally where the axle would go in the front wheel drive applications. Again I would need to see the " drill spot " on the top of the timing case to be sure, but my bet is this is a 45 degree engine block used in Toros to allow for lower hood lines. Hope this helps __________________ Dan S 70 442 W-30 4-speed 70 442 W-30 Post Coupe Bracket Race car..11.43 @ 3650lbs.

03-06-2007, 07:37 PM	#15 (permalink)
Oldsguy Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 2,553	Thread necromancy here, I looked at those pictures again and the crossover of the driver's side is just like the stock single exhaust was done, except that the pipe does not join with the passenger side and instead passes to the aft of the car. Therefore I think the pan is a stock non-toro pan, it also looks identical to the pan on the 455's I own. I can't say for sure that it isn't a toro pan though. Finally, as you said in your last post you are comfortable with it and it makes you happy. When the weather gets warmer you will probably find out for sure. It is still very nice and the work is well done. BTW, for what it is worth, I just wonder how much heat is radiated into the oil pan from that crossover running underneath it? Probably doesn't make a lot of difference. __________________ Dan '46 2 door

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02-26-2007, 08:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
frdmftr Freedom Fighter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 107	Thanks, my bad (eyes). Thats why this site is the best!

02-27-2007, 11:24 AM	#5 (permalink)
frdmftr Freedom Fighter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 107	Thanks. The pipes back to the tips are all new and a very clean installation. It works well and I don't need to anticipate spending the $$ for a new set. I can put the $$ to areas that need it (though not much else is needed)

02-27-2007, 11:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
mwmjr Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14	It appears that we have the same engine. I believe it is a 1967 425 that oldsmobile used for their big cars. Let me know if you learn anymore..

02-28-2007, 08:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
frdmftr Freedom Fighter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 107	I looked last night for the spot you mentioned. Is this located on the timing chain cover, next to the oil filler? I agree that this is a 425, C heads (67) and most likely from a Toro. Everything runs great, no issues at all. I don't plan to do any more than is there (Edelbrock carb, manifold, and dual exhaust). I'm just getting specs for the 'just in case' I run into problems in the future. I plan to focus on the minor body details (alignment of steel and minor trim replacement). Thanks everyone for the knowledge. FRDMFTR

03-02-2007, 10:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
frdmftr Freedom Fighter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 107	I see a lot of posts recommending the 455 'W-30' exhaust manifolds. I'm sure they are hard to get OEM but is there a company making new ones? Something to store on a shelf if/when I get around to running new tubes out of the 425 in my ride.

03-02-2007, 02:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
Oldsmaniac Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 350	If this 67 engine is in a 67 88 wouldnt it make sense that it is the original engine or do you know surely it was changed? A toro engine is a 39 degree block. C heads are 67 to 69 vintage big block heads. as for the exhaust it is surely someones customization for true duals.....W-30 manifolds wont work on a 67 B body car. The correct driver's side manifold is reproduced and available.

03-02-2007, 08:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
frdmftr Freedom Fighter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 107	Answer a question with a question? I don't have the history or background on this car. I also don't have a lot of 'Olds' knowledge and look to 'senior' members help, when offered. My engine questions are derived from the obvious conversion to dual exhaust, and a rather trick on at that. I'm assuming the following: 1. the 67 425ci was either 2 or 4 barrel carbed. The engine I have is now equipped with aftermarket intake and carb (both Edelbrock). Without knowing the original configuration, I cannot verify its origin. 2. They either were single pipe or duals. I am told that all duals went aft on opposite sides of the engine (not crossing over like mine has been routed). My concern stems from the drivers side crossing underneath the oil pan through what I assume is from a Toronado as it has the relief in it. I cannot believe that the single exhaust 67 Delta 88 had the same cross-over as the Toro did. Or am I way off-base? 3. I can only assume then that if I have a Toro oil pan, exhaust manifolds form a Toro (not verified either), and connot verify what the original intake (low profile) was, I can only assume the entire motor was from a Toro of the same vintage (1967). That leads me back to the last post. Where (links, names, etc...) can I find the reproduction exhaust manifolds? FRDMFTR 3.

03-03-2007, 06:27 AM	#12 (permalink)
Oldsmaniac Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 350	The repro, correct manifold often turns up on Ebay but can be bought from Thornton Reproductions....they specialize in 442 stuff but do have the S manifold. Im not convinced the oil pan is from a Toro....the car could have came with a 2 or 4bbl carb both of them single exhausted. The only way the car came with fact duals is if it had the Starfire engine. If it did most likely you would have the correct manifolds. The manifolds on your car are not Toro but single exhaust manifold(s). The passenger side manifold is the same for single or dual exhausted cars....the center hole on the passenger manifold is capped from the factory for duals with a bolt on cap. If nothing can be solved at 442.com with block numbers I would assume the engine is not Toro and the original one that your car was built with. A Toro oil pan gives and extra quart of oil....a lot of people in the 70's would swap pans for the added protection of another quart of oil. The sure way of telling if it is a Toro block is to pull the intake and measure a lifter......all Toro 425's had a 921 diameter lifter while the standard 425's had a smaller .842 lifter.

03-03-2007, 08:11 AM	#14 (permalink)
frdmftr Freedom Fighter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 107	I really appreciate the information you have given me. I learned alot and am confortable in stating that this engine is OEM to this car. I did the research in both 442.com and Wikipedia (surprisingly lots there, just watch for junk posts) as you all suggested. Good thing is it runs great and I don't anticipate tearing into it anytime soon. Now all I need is for the weather to break its grip, Happy Cruising........ FRDMFTR

03-07-2007, 07:48 AM	#16 (permalink)
frdmftr Freedom Fighter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 107	Thanks Oldsguy. I've learned alot in just two weeks with your help. I feel confident now that this is the original engine and was 'converted' to dual exhaust via bypassing the rt side manifold. I was really confused (ignorant) by the oilpan as it had the relief I believed to only apply to the Toro's. I know better now. As for performance, I've had it out a couple times, and finally with top down. It runs out very nice and from 60-90, its friggen' scary (according to my wife). she did not appreciate the demonstration. Thanks everyone for the knowledge. FRDMFTR