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[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by wolfman98

The biggest thing about todays cars is that 25 years from now how easy will it be to restore?

This is a great point, and I think it explains why, even today, cars from the '50s through the early '70s are so popular with restorers while cars that you would think would be becoming more popular, like cars from the 80s, seem less so.

Beginning with fuel injection and then continuing on into the modern age with so much of a car's operation controlled by computer, there's just not much that a shade-tree mechanic can do. I love to point out to anyone who will look just how much room under the hood there is on my '67 Delta. I can get right down in there next to the engine and spend the night if I wanted to. Today's cars are SO packed under the hood that you can't get at anything, and there's little need to get at it, anyway.

I was (and still am, even though I traded mine) on a forum for Ford Freestyle owners. and it's amazing the number of times someone will report a problem with their car, they'll take it to a dealer, and the solution will be to "reflash the eprom," "reprogram the control module," or something computer-related like that, rather that what you might expect it to be if the engine is running poorly. No more adjusting the timing or replacing spark plugs like it used to be.


P.S. Wow. Page 4!

[cutlassgal]

Originally Posted by wolfman98

Gotta go cover up some s**t , literally. Around 120 yards , 6 tarps and about 250 tires Aarghh!

Wolfman, just what kind of work do you do??? LOL!!

Back to the subject at hand... Sorry, but I feel safer in the Cutlass than I do in the Intrigue. There's a lot more metal around me in the Cutlass. No she's not made to fold on impact like some of these newer cars, but I just feel safer. I've always driven big Oldsmobiles and maybe it's because the Intrigue is the first "small" car I've ever had. I went from a Delta 88 to an Intrigue, so in my head I guess I feel safer in the big cars.
I also had a neice killed in a car accident a couple years ago - the airbag ruptured her aorta when it deployed, and that's what killed her. I have my seat in the Intrigue as far back away from the steering wheel as I can get it and still reach the pedals! That scared me.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by cutlassgal

I also had a neice killed in a car accident a couple years ago - the airbag ruptured her aorta when it deployed, and that's what killed her.

I'm sorry for your loss. Yes, the earlier generation airbags were too strong, although I think statistics would show that for every person harmed by an airbag, many more were saved. But they do have the so-called second-generation airbags now, which deploy with less force.

I also agree with your point about the older cars being large. When I'm driving my '67 Delta convertible, it may not have shoulder belts, air bags, or disc brakes on the front wheels, but it is massive compared to the cars around it. That certainly counts for something.

I think this push we're seeing currently toward smaller cars will have a negative consequence in that there will be more deaths and injuries. Smaller, lighter cars are just not as safe to be in during an accident. I see some of those "smart" cars around now, and all I can think is that the name of it is an oxymoron. There's nothing "smart" about driving one, in my opinion!

[cutlassgal]

Beginning with fuel injection and then continuing on into the modern age with so much of a car's operation controlled by computer, there's just not much that a shade-tree mechanic can do. I love to point out to anyone who will look just how much room under the hood there is on my '67 Delta. I can get right down in there next to the engine and spend the night if I wanted to. Today's cars are SO packed under the hood that you can't get at anything, and there's little need to get at it, anyway.


I agree with this too. I wish my nephew knew how to work on these newer cars, as it would be saving me a ton of money as I play the old "lets replace one piece of air pump emissions bullcrap at a time, until we fix the problem" game! He knows some, but not enough. Now give him an old car.... that's a different story. He kept many of mine running and on the road through the years! It just amazes me how much stuff is crammed under the hood of the Intrigue!

[Oldsguy]

On the subject of the computers in the cars....I repair two-way radios for a local Motorola shop and we see the same trend. Except for a few weaknesses that are more physical or mechanical in nature (control knobs, antenna nuts, buttons and switches) the biggest problems occur in the circuits which are becoming more and more small, integrated, and complex daily. Many times it is more economical for us to send a radio with these kinds of problems to the Motorola factory for repair and pay for it that way. Not to say that a technician could not eventually troubleshoot the problem and fix it but at what price? If we passed that price on to the customer they wouldn't come back, and of course the we can't eat the costs ourselves, even though some labor is sometimes written off in particular instances. This trend in design is done purposely for efficiency and I think, to get the customer into a newer product about every four or five years. How many of you out there have paid for a television, home entertainment, or appliance repair recently? Those repairs can be done as well, it just isn't as efficient. So, back to automobiles. I cringe when I get an idiot light illumination on my daily driver which by today's standards is old at ten years of age. If it isn't a sender, a lamp, or a wiring problem it is probably a computer problem which will cost mucho buckos to trouble shoot and repair.

[cutlassgal]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

On the subject of the computers in the cars....I repair two-way radios for a local Motorola shop and we see the same trend. Except for a few weaknesses that are more physical or mechanical in nature (control knobs, antenna nuts, buttons and switches) the biggest problems occur in the circuits which are becoming more and more small, integrated, and complex daily. Many times it is more economical for us to send a radio with these kinds of problems to the Motorola factory for repair and pay for it that way. Not to say that a technician could not eventually troubleshoot the problem and fix it but at what price? If we passed that price on to the customer they wouldn't come back, and of course the we can't eat the costs ourselves, even though some labor is sometimes written off in particular instances. This trend in design is done purposely for efficiency and I think, to get the customer into a newer product about every four or five years. How many of you out there have paid for a television, home entertainment, or appliance repair recently? Those repairs can be done as well, it just isn't as efficient. So, back to automobiles. I cringe when I get an idiot light illumination on my daily driver which by today's standards is old at ten years of age. If it isn't a sender, a lamp, or a wiring problem it is probably a computer problem which will cost mucho buckos to trouble shoot and repair.

Mucho buckos... yeah what you said. This problem I'm having with the air pump on the Intrigue.... Got a call today from my mechanics and this "rear air injection diverter valve" that needs to be replaced is going to cost me $425.32 installed, and that's WITH a 10% discount!!! Holy Shit! I just paid $500.00 for the friggin pump! AND I called a dealer and talked to them, and they ask me WHICH valve they are going to replace! Evidently there are several of these valves!!! Right ones, left ones... I DO NOT have the money to play the game of elimination. When I see smoke coming out from under the hood, I'll get it fixed!!!!

[jaunty75]

More on Chrylser/Fiat. It ain't an American company any more.

Interesting that Ram will become a brand separate from Dodge. I think I had heard that somewhere earlier.


Can Fiat Cars Save Chrysler?

[wolfman98]

hey cutlassgal I am actually making organic compost in the tradition of my late father , I use horse manure mixed with mulched leaves , grass hay and straw chaff as well as adding in some peat moss plus one or two other goodies but completely organic. dad used to grow and sell organically grown veggies and make his own fertilizer. back to your car , are you going to fix it or not? I was not sure from your last response. this goes to my biggest beef about newer cars and that is expensive repairs due to computer malfunctions. granted new cars are safer than ever and the ride is nice and the fuel milage but it is going to get to the point where they are going to be throw away cars.

[OLD SKL 69]

Can Fiat Cars Save Chrysler?

Interesting article. I agree it's hard to still say their American, not only because of ownership of the company but also the fact that they have diluted domestic parts content so much. So many of their vehicles are also made in either Canada or Mexico. It makes me even wonder how many models they will still make here the way they are losing money.

[cutlassgal]

quote=wolfman98;120026]hey cutlassgal I am actually making organic compost in the tradition of my late father , I use horse manure mixed with mulched leaves , grass hay and straw chaff as well as adding in some peat moss plus one or two other goodies but completely organic. dad used to grow and sell organically grown veggies and make his own fertilizer. back to your car , are you going to fix it or not? I was not sure from your last response. this goes to my biggest beef about newer cars and that is expensive repairs due to computer malfunctions. granted new cars are safer than ever and the ride is nice and the fuel milage but it is going to get to the point where they are going to be throw away cars.[/quote]

Well that sounds interesting! My mom used to have a compost pile. when we were little, she would have us put any peelings such as potato, carrot, etc... on the pile. She'd get upset if we put them in the trash! Organic foods and stuff in the stores here are very expensive, but I know they are supposed to be better for you.

I don't know what I'm going to do with the car. I just get so frustrated because I don't know much about this stuff, and I get so many different answers when I ask questions, then I get confused. I've been reading and researching these air pump issues on auto forums, and people make it sound so easy to replace these valves and things. I guess if you're smart about them and know how to do it, then it would be easy. When you don't know, like me, it's very frustrating.
I think I'm going to hold off a while - I really don't have an extra four hundred dollars laying around!The light is still off - this is the longest it's stayed off since this thing started - so I guess the valve they un-stuck the other night is still un-stuck, which is a good thing. It just seems like with this emissions crap, one thing leads to another, then another, yada, yada, yada. Look how long the old engines ran without a computer to tell us what was wrong when there was a problem. If there was a problem, we usually knew what it was, bought the part and fixed it! Simple!! All I would like to do is get this thing fixed correctly, without spending a fortune! If I get this valve, thats almost a thousand dollars for this one problem, and I don't know if that will be the end of it, ya know? There are different valves involved with this thing, and I can't get a cut and dried answer to the question - will this fix the problem.
I don't mind spending money to fix whatever is wrong with my cars, but I do want to know that the problem is fixed for good. I'm going to do some more calling around and asking questions until I'm satisfied with what I hear, and I'll take it from there!

[wolfman98]

I would wait to see if it is going to continue to be bothersome. I wonder if the pump they replaced was even bad at all? They replaced it and you still had the problem , did you get the old pump or did they give you a core amount off the price of the new one. If it was me I would tell them they replaced a good part so they owe me the valve at no cost. Usually it does not work but I always make a point.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by OLD SKL 69

Interesting article. I agree it's hard to still say their American

The articles I read about Chrysler/Fiat, like this one, seem to do a lot of hand-wringing over whether Chrysler can survive until 2011 or 2012, when their "new" models will be available.

The way I see it, the government has already stepped in and made sure that Chrysler didn't die. I can't believe they wouldn't do it again to hold the company together long enough for the new models. The article talks about one of Chrysler's problems becoming their suppliers, who will refuse to do business with a company that's teetering. But, again, I would think that dealing with a company that has government backing would be MORE secure of a business relationship, rather than less.

In short, I can't see the Obama administration allowing the billions it has already poured into the company to be for naught.

[wolfman98]

When the time comes when the gov. is going to have to make a decision about spending more money on Chrysler you know it is going to be a huge battle on Capital Hill. Same with average Americans the question will be do you let it go or put more taxpayer dollars into something that you have absolutely no guarentees the new models are going to sell and save the company. It will be a risk for law makers either way.
It will take a lot of advertising before hand, but if you can have models that are competative in pricing, quality, and style not to mention fuel mileage.

[wolfman98]

Originally Posted by jaunty75

The funny thing about this example is that you CAN now buy an American-made TV. Vizio, which is a common flat-panel TV brand you see at Best Buy, Walmart, etc., is made in southern California. I don't know where all the parts come from, but it is assembled in the U.S. by a U.S.-owned company. It is unusual because, prior to its founding, as you say, all American TV manufacturing capacity had long been shutdown, and all of our TVs had come from overseas. But someone thought it was worth starting a TV company in the U.S. Good for them!

I just thought I should mention that I have heard of Vizio and I believe that they also make other things like computer moniters and laptops , don't they? Regardless I will look for that brand next time I buy something electronic.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by wolfman98

I believe that they also make other things like computer moniters and laptops, don't they?

Actually, no. While their LCD TVs certainly could be used as computer monitors, I don't think they market them that way. They're pretty much geared to the televsion market. They don't make computers. Just TVs and accessories to go with them (cables, wall mounts, etc.).

[Dan Wirth]

Originally Posted by wolfman98

Being a Lincoln I am sure it would be standard equipment. The biggest thing about todays cars is that 25 years from now how easy will it be to restore? The average joe backyard mechanic may find them more difficult to work out all the electronics?Here on the east coast with all the salt it takes a toll on wiring as well as body panels , it may be more costly when you have to replace all the wiring, computer components , chips and safety innovations that these new cars have. Even though they come as standard equipment on many of todays cars how expensive will major rebuilds be? I guess you will not know til that day comes, as well as the availability of parts. I just know that fixing a new car is way out of my league. I don't have anything to plug it into to figure out what's wrong with it.

I agree. I feel fortunate living in the here and now with my simple electrical problems (verses electronic ones on my vintage car).

Getting back to that new car smell...my 57 Olds smells like a new car. Lots of new parts in the interior of that old girl. It must be the seat covers that make it that way, over the rest. My garage smells mighty fine in the morning, as well, this being the only car in it.

[cutlassgal]

Originally Posted by wolfman98

I just thought I should mention that I have heard of Vizio and I believe that they also make other things like computer moniters and laptops , don't they? Regardless I will look for that brand next time I buy something electronic.

We bought a Vizio HD flat screen TV back in August. So far no problems with it. It has a nice picture and sound. We like it!

[z11375ss]

So if a product is made in America and is competitvely priced and is of good quality people will buy it. WOW! What a concept. Something that has been lost here for a long time. I guess that is what I was looking for. A good American car. A wish maybe, I guess. And it frosts my rear to think the foreigners are beating us at a game we owned and dominated for decades. I hate that.