1970 F85 W31

[therobski]

This can be a VERY expensive hobby and I consider it a hobby not a money making deal unless like stated earlier "the only way to make money in this is; work on other peoples cars." The cars I am building are "drivers" non originals, modernized for convenience , safety and SPEED. I never plan on building or having one built that cannot be taking out and getting caught in the rain, wife can drive it without coming home with a stone chip and me freaking out over it. Besides my German Shepherd loves to ride in the back seat! The cars may not be worth what I got in them, but at least they hold their value and I am having fun going on cruises-the 67 went on the Hot Rod Power Tour last year broke the motor in and had a blast. Have some dings to prove it!

[mono-plane]

I like your cars! The white one is a 1967 442, isn't it? What is the engine? It looks pretty serious!

[therobski]

It's a built 30 over 455-500 HP on 93 octane, Torker, Edelbrock heads, Harlin Sharp Roller Rockers, Coyles roller chain, Comp Cams Extreme Energy274-pretty basic Olds recipe with some detail. M-21 4-speed, Ram Power Grip clutch, 8.5 GM 10bolt-3:55 gears, Holley electric fuel pump with .8an braided stainless steel fuel line with all an fittings, A Dean Oliver race prepped 800 CFM Q-jet, aluminum radiator, 72 Cutlass P/S pump. new Painless engine wiring harness, RobMac 1/2 inch fuel pickup, 3 inch Mandrell bent exhaust with Spin Tech mufflers, Cragar 15x10 L-60x15 Diamondback redlines in the rear Cragar 15x8 235x15 Diamondback redlines in the front, solid core U-joints, completely restored suspension system the front end has new 1 inch drop springs with an all new 72 Cutlass disc brakes. Getting ready to put in a new interior, re-seal the windshield and rear window-last year on Power Tour I drove in some really heavy thunder showers and had probably 1/4 inch of rain in the floor boards! Thank goodness for the wet/dry vacs at the carwashes or at least thats what I used them for! Next up is Vintage A/C and going to have the Muncie rebuilt have them install a new steel mid plate, a new 2:52 M-20 first gear. The trans is the weakest link. If I put slicks on her and she hooked, I fear I would bust the trans. I also need to build a torque strap ASAP driver side motors are breaking lose.. Thanks for your interest.

[mono-plane]

I love it....what is the torque number? A good buddy of mine used to drag race occasionally his 55 Chevy 210 Delray 2 door sedan, with a built 406 SBC. That engine had 475 HP with approx. 500 lbs/ft of torque. He ran a Super T10 with a Dana 60 with 4:10 gears. Car ran 12.10 at 113 miles per hour in the 1/4 dumping the clutch at 4500 RPMs. It was an 11 second car if he would have dumped the clutch at 5000 RPMs. I have a 1980 Malibu 2 door sport coupe with a 1970 LS6 454 that runs 11:70's @ 113.78 MPH. It has a TH350 with a 3600 stall, a 9" Lincoln Versailles diff with 3:89 gears, a Detroit locker and Strange axles. I run 15 X 28 X 9 inch slicks on 7 inch wide rims (not much wheel well space with the 1978 Lincoln Versailles diff).

Sounds like you have yourself a whole lot of fun there! Enjoy and keep us posted with any track times.

Cheers,

[stevengerard]

Originally Posted by therobski

This can be a VERY expensive hobby and I consider it a hobby not a money making deal unless like stated earlier "the only way to make money in this is; work on other peoples cars." The cars I am building are "drivers" non originals, modernized for convenience , safety and SPEED. I never plan on building or having one built that cannot be taking out and getting caught in the rain, wife can drive it without coming home with a stone chip and me freaking out over it. Besides my German Shepherd loves to ride in the back seat! The cars may not be worth what I got in them, but at least they hold their value and I am having fun going on cruises-the 67 went on the Hot Rod Power Tour last year broke the motor in and had a blast. Have some dings to prove it!

Love the approach, that's how I try to take it, I have the car because I always wanted one and hopefully will always be willing to drive it. The minute I drive the car home from the body shop I'm sure at least two of my kids will jump in it without opening a door

[Bobsw32]

You might consider a Borg Warner Super T-10 tranny as they are a tad bit stronger than the Muncie trans and they have a wide variety of ratios availble and they (usually) are less money used....Just a thought behind that torque monster

[agtw31]

where's the pics of this w-31?

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by agtw31

where's the pics of this w-31?

I have brought home most of the boxes of parts now, an the side glass, interior stuff, just the front seat is in the car. It has another steering wheel column in it from a 1972 Cutlass, just to move it around easily, the original is home now with the sport four spoke cushion grip steering wheel. I'm going to take pics of everything and then start finding a place to put the stuff. I can't bring the car home until I get this stuff organized where I want it. As well this last week was spent running a 60 amp wire underground to my garage, adding a new 100 amp sub-panel in the house to feed the garage. It was under wired for the new electric garage heater that I installed, so now I will have a properly heated work space. I have the everything but the rolling chassis/body (with doors, and trunk still attached) at home now. The car came with a 72 Cutlass frame/chassis to eventually sit the body on while a restore the original frame. Work, work, work.... ;-)

In the meantime here's a picture of my 80 Malibu with the LS6 at a local outdoor Sunday night cruise. I know, it's not an Olds.....

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by Bobsw32

You might consider a Borg Warner Super T-10 tranny as they are a tad bit stronger than the Muncie trans and they have a wide variety of ratios availble and they (usually) are less money used....Just a thought behind that torque monster

I have a Super T10 from my W31 car, and it was an original M21 car. The trans is from a 1975 Trans Am with a 400 or 455 motor according to the numbers. It's also an aluminum main case with a 2:52 first gear if my research is correct?

Trades???

[therobski]

Thanks Monoplane. When I put the motor on the dyno to break in the cam, all I had at the time-to impatient I guess-was an Edelbrock 600cfm carb and the resuts on the sheet showed it. Anyway on that breakin period the the motor pulled 530 lbs of torque at 2,500 rpm! Only 447hp. Now the engine is tuned, the HEI has been curved and with a Dean Oliver race prepped Q-jet the motor has be very close to my initial goal 500hp. I am going to the speed shop maybe later this week and get a few pulls on the chassis dyno see what happens.

[joesw31]

Monoplane, it appears your F-85 W-31 may have been buit in late March or early April. My F-85 W-31 was built in the first week of April 1970. If you need any info send an email.

[therobski]

My dyno sheet says she produced 502 LBS. of Torque right off idle at 3,000 RPM 447HP. Now keep in mind I was to anxious and could not wait to fire the motor and only had a measly 600CFM Edelbrock carb on the beast at the time-which starved the motor. I am going to the chassis dyno within 30 days. The motor is now well tuned with a Dean Oliver race prepped 800CFM Q-jet. See what happens, thanks for your interest...

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by joesw31

Monoplane, it appears your F-85 W-31 may have been buit in late March or early April. My F-85 W-31 was built in the first week of April 1970. If you need any info send an email.

Thanks JoesW31, will do. Just got the car home yesterday afternoon, so took some pics and will post a Photo Bucket link. :-)

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by therobski

My dyno sheet says she produced 502 LBS. of Torque right off idle at 3,000 RPM 447HP. Now keep in mind I was to anxious and could not wait to fire the motor and only had a measly 600CFM Edelbrock carb on the beast at the time-which starved the motor. I am going to the chassis dyno within 30 days. The motor is now well tuned with a Dean Oliver race prepped 800CFM Q-jet. See what happens, thanks for your interest...

Keep us posted on your new results please.

[mono-plane]

OK everybody, here's some of the initial pics of my 1970 F85 W31. I have tons more pictures to take of the rest of the parts, including the interior, rebuilt motor, Super T10, etc. The rust is along the rear quarter lips, some along the base of the windshield, but not bad and some bad pitting along the metal panel along the bottom of the rear window. I have a non-tinted car with a tinted driver's door glass, the rest is original. I will need tom buy a windshield too. It has the antenna built in which I like. I also need an original radio as per my build sheet. Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/t...1%204%20Speed/

Cheers,

[therobski]

I will post the results ; but from all the other "OLDS recipes" 500 HP I may be pushing it on Fantasy Island. It didn't know at the time I could push the compression to 11.1 with aluminunm heads on 93 pump. The motor comp. is a true 10.25 with all the other goodies etc. That could be the difference. But what do I know I keep throwing money at it and hope it grows

[joesw31]

Monoplane, it appears that your car was built in the 4th week of April of 1970. The F-85 W-31 that I own was built in the first week of April of 1970. It still has the orginal paint, motor, M-21 and rear. If you need any info let me know. Hope you enjoy the picture.

[mono-plane]

JoesW31,

Your car is beautiful! I hope that someday my car will look like new again.

Cheers,
Barry

[chillyw31]

Hi Mono-plane. The Canadian docs that Diego posted are mine. I just posted on the newbie forum. There are a couple of pics of the car (original paint). My docs show Twilight Blue with Astro Blue stripes, and that's exactly what it is.
Cheers
Dean

[mono-plane]

chillyw31,

Welcome to the site and this forum. You have a nice car! I like the colors. I wish my car in the same condition (assembled and drivable) ;-)

Barry

[mono-plane]

Can anyone recommend a good website, that shows all the different GM differential covers and ID's them? Especially the various 10 bolt diffs.

Thanks,
Barry

[wmachine]

Originally Posted by mono-plane

Can anyone recommend a good website, that shows all the different GM differential covers and ID's them? Especially the various 10 bolt diffs.

Thanks,
Barry

jdrace.com

The site belongs to Jim who is monzaz, our resident differential expert.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by chillyw31

My docs show Twilight Blue with Astro Blue stripes, and that's exactly what it is.
Cheers
Dean

Except that the stripes are not Astro Blue.

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by wmachine

jdrace.com

The site belongs to Jim who is monzaz, our resident differential expert.

Thanks Kurt.

[chillyw31]

Originally Posted by Diego

Except that the stripes are not Astro Blue.

A friend of mine also has a W31, Astro Blue with Black stripes. Our cars have never been side-by-side, but the color looks pretty close to my stripes, so I assumed they were Astro Blue. What color do you figure they are? I know the pics aren't very good, and the paint is in poor condition.

[Diego]

The documentation from GM of Canada says the car is Twilight Blue with Astro Blue stripes. The correct color for the blue stripes are not Astro Blue - that's what I'm saying...GM of Canada's use of the adjective "Astro Blue" for the stripe color is not correct.

[mono-plane]

So what is the correct "term" to call the blue stripes? Was there only one color of blue stripes. is that why, the stripes should be just "white, blue, black" etc?

[Diego]

There were no proper names for the colors of stripes, although some colors matched the body paint recipe. In the blue's case, there was no body paint that was the same.

[mono-plane]

So the painters back in the day and since, go by some formula for all colors, whether main body colors or accent colors for the stripes. As long as you have this info, you can restore your car properly assuming that modern paints can be mixed to match the exact color? Diego, you posted the above attachment earlier in this discussion, was there a mixing formula as well? Thanks

[Diego]

Does this help?

[mono-plane]

Diego, did you send me a private message? I have a post from you that's not on this thread? In answer to your comments (maybe private at this point?), it would seem very strange to keep the info quiet at this point. What purpose would it serve, unless someone is trying to profit from the info?

[Diego]

I had a response that I wasn't sure if I could post it because a friend had asked me to keep a file on the DL, but it wasn't this one, so I edited my post and posted the item - that's where the confusion comes from.

[agtw31]

nice car

little floor work,and youre ready to go

you can find a 12 bolt rear and frame braces for that easy,they arent that rare.

[joesw31]

monoplane- the rear in your car appears to be a "P" type rear. Post the codes from the axle tube, and lets see if we can find it.

Your original rear would be "TO" code olds 12 bolt 3.91 ratio. 1970 olds had a stand alone rear in the sense it had a roller bearing axle shaft. The rears are not difficult to find and now would be a great time to purchase any rare parts you are missing without digging a hole in your pocket.

[joesw31]

Chilly, your car looks great! Nice to see more "post strike" W-31 cars! I have noticed that cars on the east coast compared to the west coast had "body stripes" that did not match the interior color of the car. I think that is awsome! It was recommended that the "body stripe" match the interior.

I also see that you found the droadcast sheet. Awsome! Generally, there are two sheets. One in the front seat and the other in the rear seat.

In my F-85 I found only one broadcast sheet, while, in my other W-31 I found two broadcast sheets.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by joesw31

Chilly, your car looks great! Nice to see more "post strike" W-31 cars! I have noticed that cars on the east coast compared to the west coast had "body stripes" that did not match the interior color of the car. I think that is awsome! It was recommended that the "body stripe" match the interior.

I don't know what to say about the regional differences, but since black and white are the most common stripe colors, and as both black and white match any color.

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by agtw31

nice car

little floor work,and you're ready to go

you can find a 12 bolt rear and frame braces for that easy,they arent that rare.

The trans shifter hump was hacked up, likely for a Hurst Super Shifter. I made that mistake with my 1967 Mustang GT fastback with a 289 4 barrel and a four speed. The top loader shifter from Ford was not great, so I ponied up a Super Shifter back in 1973, then couldn't take it back when it wasn't a direct bolt in like the speed shop said. I ended up hacking up the floor to make it work, but it was an excellent shifter.

I have a buddy with a 1968 Chevelle 12 bolt diff but what is different about the trailing arms? Would one need both upper and lowers?

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by agtw31

nice car

little floor work,and you're ready to go

you can find a 12 bolt rear and frame braces for that easy,they aren't that rare.

Yes, somewhere in the car's past, someone added a different shifter, likely a Hurst Super Shifter, and whacked up the shifter hump. I can't complain too loud as there is/was probably an owner after me who complained that some goof (me) cut the shifter hump/floor on his 1967 Mustang GT Fastback (289/V4/4 speed). I was sold the Super Shifter with the idea that I could just bolt it on my top loader. Then when that didn't happen they wouldn't take it back. So it finally made it in the 'Stang, but with some surgery. (oops)

Hey, I have access to a 1968 Chevelle 12 bolt, but what's different about the upper and lower trailing arms, that one would need to change them.

Barry

[mono-plane]

Originally Posted by joesw31

monoplane- the rear in your car appears to be a "P" type rear. Post the codes from the axle tube, and lets see if we can find it.

Your original rear would be "TO" code olds 12 bolt 3.91 ratio. 1970 olds had a stand alone rear in the sense it had a roller bearing axle shaft. The rears are not difficult to find and now would be a great time to purchase any rare parts you are missing without digging a hole in your pocket.

joesw31,

Man I scraped, and wire brushed that diff to clean it up, but couldn't find any codes. I looked on the front passenger side tube, nothing. I did get approx. a half a pound of dirt, oil and grease though. ;-) My car was originally an M21. I read somewhere back in a January 1986 issue of Popular & Performance Car Review mag, which ran an article on Olds W machines. The article stated that the W31 with an M21 got 4:33 gears and the M20 cars came with 3:90 gears. Anybody out there with original cars, that have these set-ups in them from new?

Does anybody have an original diff for my W31 that they want to sell? As well as the boxed trialing arms?

Barry

[agtw31]

contact 507olds,he builds them.

he probably has the sway bar,and control arms,and the frame braces as well.

when you remove that rear,check your frame real good on the top part of the pass side spring perch.

if that was a 4 speed car,and raced,and they took those frame braces off,you could have some stress cracking in the frame up there.

ive had 2 4 speed W cars ive parted out with cracks in the frame there.