1964 F-85 Cutlass Convertable

[Meat10]

As much as it pains me I must part with this beauty--in the military and moving soon and have too many vehicles to move around.

The car is about 90% restored. It has the 330ci, 290hp, 4bbl w/ the 2 speed jet-away transmission. It is the original motor and trans. The car has about 1500 miles on the rebuilt motor and the transmission was rebuilt at the same time. It has a new dual exhaust and I put air shocks on the back. All wheels have the original hub caps.

From my research it shows that only 500 cars of this style were made in this year--not sure how true that is, but I am sure there are some Cutlass enthusiasts who can set me straight.

The top is in good condition, no leaks, but the back window has "fog" on it. The body for the most part is in great condition, but has some small rust holes and some paint bubbling--I have photos of those areas.

The car has "factory" air that works great! The complete AC system was refurbished. I put new front brake cylinders on it along with new brake pads all around and 5 new tires. All the trim is in pristine condition and we put new carpeting in about 2 yrs ago. I currently have an aluminum intake on the car--I have the original intake, the original air cleaner, an extra working AC compressor and miscellaneous bits and pieces.

Some of the things that I know are wrong w/ the car: rust spots, horn doesn't work (horn works fine when hooked up to power, it is the wiring that doesn't work), top motor crapped out on me about a month ago (could buy one on ebay, but haven't gotten around to it), the radio works on occasion (think it just needs to be cleaned), the clock doesn't work (most likely wiring), and the steering wheel has cracks in it.

I am located in Panama City Florida. I am asking $22,500/obro. Will never be able to get the money out of the car that was invested in it, but would like to at least break even. Call me at 850-876-0180 or email me at enorth10@hotmail.com. I have pictures of the cars interior, exterior, engine, trunk and some rust spots.

[Meat10]

Wife's car, she said lower the price so it is now $19,500/OBRO.

[Meat10]

I'm not sure, but I feel that this car is very reasonably priced--is everyone having trouble selling their vehicles?

[TK-65]

Not even close to having factory air.

[Meat10]

well that's what the invoice says on the car--so unless you know better. I am pretty sure that the "factory air" back in those days was installed by the dealership after it arrived.

[ent72olds]

Beautiful car...looks like the compressor I had on my '68 Ford XLGT. May have had it from the factory, but that doesn't look like a correct comp!

[jaunty75]

Some of the things that I know are wrong w/ the car: rust spots, horn doesn't work (horn works fine when hooked up to power, it is the wiring that doesn't work), top motor crapped out on me about a month ago (could buy one on ebay, but haven't gotten around to it), the radio works on occasion (think it just needs to be cleaned), the clock doesn't work (most likely wiring), and the steering wheel has cracks in it.

Meat10, God love ya, you're dreaming!!

No way this car is worth anything like $22,000. Or even $19,000.

The Old Cars Price Guide values a '64 Cutlass Convertible in #1 condition, which is BETTER than showroom new, and, obviously, on which everything works, at $18,000. If I'm paying anything like this kind of money for a car like this, I expect EVERYTHING to work, and I expect everything to look new or better. I don't expect to see rust holes, paint bubbles, or a fogged rear window.

Heck, the failure of the top mechanism alone is a pretty big thing. I've seen the price of new pumps and other parts in the Fusick catalog, and repairing this can easily run to several hundred dollars. If you don't want to turn people off pretty quickly, FIX THIS. The other problems you mention are more minor, but they're certainly not what you expect in a car at this price level. I would fix everything you mention, as most can be fixed quickly and cheaply. The steering wheel is a different issue as you can easily spend $500 to $1000 to get it restored. But again, if I'm paying 20 grand for a car, I expect the steering wheel to look great.

Think about it. When people go to sell their house, they almost always do some fixing up first. Repaint all the rooms, replaced damaged or worn carpeting, make sure all the lights turn on when you flip the switches, make sure the lawn is mowed and the trim is trimmed. Heck, some will even bake a loaf of bread just before the open house to leave a pleasant odor in the house as the lookers arrive. Well, you gotta look at selling a car the same way. I'm not saying that you need to bake a loaf of bread in the glove box, but you need to fix up all the little things, and repair the major things. Look at it as a buyer who is considering it as one among many that they might purchase.

In #2 condition, which IS showroom new and which still is not an accurate description of your car, a '64 Cutlass convertible is valued at $12,600. In #3 condition, which probably is a good description of your car, the value is $8,100. Your car is probably somewhere between #3 and #2, so a reasonable asking price would be somewhere around $10,000.

but would like to at least break even.

And I'd like to win the lottery. Neither is gonna happen. If you want to break even, put your money in a mattress. If you want to make money, buy treasury bills. Old cars are not investments. No one ever gets back when they sell their car what they paid to fix it up. That's why it's always better if you're looking to buy a collector car, at least if return on investment, as little as there will be, is an issue, to get one in as good a condition as possible to start with. You'll spend less total money than you would to buy a car in lesser condition and then spend more to bring it up to the better condition.

I hate to sound so pessimistic, but people always overvalue their car and need to be brought back to earth. They assume the rest of the world sees their car the way they do, rather than recognizing that they need to see it the way the rest of the world does.

You can keep the price at $19,000 and wait until doomsday to sell it, or you can drop the price and watch it fly out the door.

Good luck. I'd love you to prove me wrong!

[jaunty75]

Meat10, I was looking at your photos more closely, and I just now noticed, in that one you took looking from the rear across the seats to the dash, that you've got some kind of a pad covering the dash and glovebox. What's that all about? Is something wrong with the dash? Cracked/faded? If so, that $10,000 I mentioned above might be more like $9,000!

[Meat10]

Jaunty75, thanks for the advice--was never intending on this car to be an investment, wife wanted it to drive around on occasion w/ the top down and enjoy the Florida sunshine. there is a dash cover on it to protect it from the rays of the sun--nothing wrong w/ the dash. wasn't sure what the going rate is for a 64 F-85 but have been perusing several websites and noticed that there were several out there--non-converts and is worse shape going for a little less than what I was asking. Guess I will keep the car and move it around (or store it) accordingly. i understand the need to/want everything working--but in the grand scheme of things and when you see the car up close it is not as bad as it seems. i did price out the top motor and it was $200 for a new one, the mechanism works like a champ and is in perfect condition,--not a major expense. i would venture to guess that there aren't too many older cars out there that don't need some work done to them. Not trying to gouge anyone just wanted to see what the going rate for this vehicle was.

[jaunty75]

The Olds Cars Price Guide is only that, a guide. But it's been around many years, and I think it tends toward the conservative side on values. On the other hand, how they come up with their values I don't know as I am sure many, if not most, transactions take place without their knowledge. For example, just two months ago I bought a '67 Olds in a private sale. How would the OCPG know that the sale took place at all, let alone how much money changed hands?

Anyway, regardless of what the OCPG says, in my personal opinion, if I'm looking at any car in the five figure range, I expect major systems to work. You say it costs only $200 to fix the power top. Then you should spend the $200 and fix it. Don't have that as a negative hanging over things as the buyer looks at your car and contemplates the $19,000 asking price.

To a buyer, having major systems not working in a car at this price level is just a turn-off and puts you in not-as-good a frame of mind about the car overall. You start to wonder about other systems and just in general how good the car really is. Plus, you say to yourself as the seller, "well, this only drops the value of the car by the cost of the repair." But that's not true. The condition of major systems can affect the car's perceived value by more than the cost of fixing what's wrong. That's why I suggested you fix the horn, the top, etc., get those rust holes filled and painted, etc. You might spend $2000 to do all that, but the impact on the value of the car will be more than that.

have been perusing several websites and noticed that there were several out there--non-converts and is worse shape going for a little less than what I was asking

Certainly something you should be doing to establish a value for your car, but what you really need to know is what these cars are actually selling for, not just what the asking prices are, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you. Plus, I would find it hard to believe that anyone is paying five figures for, say, a '64 Cutlass 2-door hardtop in #4 condition!


As I said before, good luck!

[gearheads78]

10-12K Is going to be top dollar on that car. Just because you see dealers out there asking for a price does not mean they are selling at that price. I paid 15K for mine at the top of the market 2.5 years ago and it was an unmolested 65K mile car. Even at that time I probably over paid buy a couple grand just because I was tired of looking for the right car.