1970 442 W-30

[mroy0404]

Is this ture,

I was reading somewhere on the net some w30 cars were not made at the michigan plant but were dealer optioned to be a w30 cars.

Anyone ever seen this

[442Harv]

Yes there are cars that the dealer added W30 parts. I think they then call them a Trac Pac Car, or something like that. I have seed a 67 like that. As far as I see it, it is not a real W30, just a 442 with W30 parts added.

[mroy0404]

How can this be docamented

[DennisG.]

How do you determine what a real W-30 is or is not since it was an OPTION on a 442 ?

[442Harv]

You would have to find the built sheet, to be 100 percent sure. Also, it must have a Lancing M code for sure. Also, like in 70, you can check the distributor, and carb number, as they are different, and the carb is a real rare part. I have a 70 W30, but it has had the carb changed, which, is kind off a common thing, as many carbs have been changed in the last 35-40 years

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by 442Harv

Yes there are cars that the dealer added W30 parts. I think they then call them a Trac Pac Car, or something like that. I have seed a 67 like that. As far as I see it, it is not a real W30, just a 442 with W30 parts added.

While this is correct for 66-67, the subject of the original post refers to a 1970 W-30. The answer is no, there were no other build sites for these cars. The W-30 had select-fit, hand-built engines and these were only done in Lansing. If someone's telling you otherwise, they are mistaken or trying to pawn off a forgery.

This reminds me of the guy at the Pomona swap meet who tried to tell me that the non-numbers-matching 1970 455 was factory installed in his 1969 442, and that the "X" in the VIN derivative meant "experimental". In fact, it simply meant that the engine came from the Kansas City plant, which only built full size cars, not 442s.

[shaks 442 clone]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

While this is correct for 66-67, the subject of the original post refers to a 1970 W-30. The answer is no, there were no other build sites for these cars. The W-30 had select-fit, hand-built engines and these were only done in Lansing. If someone's telling you otherwise, they are mistaken or trying to pawn off a forgery.

This reminds me of the guy at the Pomona swap meet who tried to tell me that the non-numbers-matching 1970 455 was factory installed in his 1969 442, and that the "X" in the VIN derivative meant "experimental". In fact, it simply meant that the engine came from the Kansas City plant, which only built full size cars, not 442s.

laughing my ass off, experimental what will they come up with next part of the x files scenery

[DennisG.]

Originally Posted by 442Harv

You would have to find the built sheet, to be 100 percent sure. Also, it must have a Lancing M code for sure. Also, like in 70, you can check the distributor, and carb number, as they are different, and the carb is a real rare part. I have a 70 W30, but it has had the carb changed, which, is kind off a common thing, as many carbs have been changed in the last 35-40 years

Yes, I am well aware of all that. My point is that the W-30 is an OPTION on a 442. Not a seperate model. Everybody adds options to their cars, spoilers, ram air hoods, disc brakes, posi rearends etc. So as long as the car has all the correct parts and done correctly it should be considered a W-30. Notice I did say ALL the correct parts and done correctly. I know most would not agree with this but what is the difference from a car that left the factory with this option and one that has all the correct parts and done correctly ? Really, other then a piece of paper and the price, what would be the difference ? I`ll tell you. Nothing.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by DennisG.

Yes, I am well aware of all that. My point is that the W-30 is an OPTION on a 442. Not a seperate model. Everybody adds options to their cars, spoilers, ram air hoods, disc brakes, posi rearends etc. So as long as the car has all the correct parts and done correctly it should be considered a W-30. Notice I did say ALL the correct parts and done correctly. I know most would not agree with this but what is the difference from a car that left the factory with this option and one that has all the correct parts and done correctly ? Really, other then a piece of paper and the price, what would be the difference ? I`ll tell you. Nothing.

While I agree with your logic (the same can be said for engine swaps like Yenko cars), the marketplace disagrees. There is obviously a premium paid for factory original cars with proper documentation. Anything else is a very slippery slope.

[70oldsW30]

Match an automatic car VIN on and OW transmission. Ok, I read where they make freakin' repros of those now.

I would never consider a car to be a W-30 unless that was the way it was born, nor would anyone else that I know, and that is the difference.

[344870M]

I agree with needed documentation. Clones have their place but only (only) if the seller is being upfront with everything. With anything and everything being reproduced, paperwork is the only thing that will confirm authenticity. Consider it a birth certificate for the car.

[Rallye469]

what is the difference from a car that left the factory with this option and one that has all the correct parts and done correctly

I get what your getting at but...doing it correctly would mean having a ton of cores to sort through and hand selecting the perfect parts to start from.
Then once you had the right cores stamping them all the same.

You could definitely forge all the stuff, but it would still be a forgery.
It might run just as good, look the same, handle the same...
but the guys on CSI could figure it out!

[Eddie Hansen]

Originally Posted by 344870M

I agree with needed documentation. Clones have their place but only (only) if the seller is being upfront with everything. With anything and everything being reproduced, paperwork is the only thing that will confirm authenticity. Consider it a birth certificate for the car.

I don't know fellas, even a "birth cert" can be forged I just saw on flea bay a guy selling vin tags for 442/cutlass now this could lead folks to buy vins etc from a totalled car and clone it from a cutlass and if he could "find" the build sheet etc how would you know?

I actually find this all pretty depressing... if a guy is straight up he'll tell you it's a clone, but there are snapper heads like me who might of switched brands ( I was always a Poncho fan) knew Nothing about 442/cutlasses etc and would say hey it's a 442.. with experimental canadian built Olds (chevy) 305...

and what does it do for the guy who spent the big bucks on the rare model, spends all his beer money keeping it in tip top shape, and folks worried about clones won't pay the same premium when he goes to sell it???

sorry ranting away here

[Rallye469]

I think that's the very root of the problem Eddie.
Big money tends to make people do things they normally wouldn't.

I saw a firewall/cowl being sold from a 66 GTO vert...
just the firewall, the window frame and cowl section...a total of 2 feet
of a 18 foot car.

You know, there's something not right with the whole industry...

[Oldsguy]

Originally Posted by Rallye469

I think that's the very root of the problem Eddie.
Big money tends to make people do things they normally wouldn't.

I saw a firewall/cowl being sold from a 66 GTO vert...
just the firewall, the window frame and cowl section...a total of 2 feet
of a 18 foot car.

You know, there's something not right with the whole industry...

I saw that one too, was thinking about that as I read the entries on this thread. Ridiculous!

[Eddie Hansen]

right on bruthas..

actually there is a silver lining to this for me, it made me decide NOT to build a clone but to find all the cutlass badging etc and still paint my convertible like a 69 hurst, but with the cutlass badging and a few of those "hurst equipped" badges maybe down on the rockers, could look cool.

this will allow me to reatin my gold interior which should look good with the white and gold stripes, anyway sorry to hijack now back to our regularly scheduled discussion on a 70 w-30

[Jokers69]

Hmmm.. another clone thread. How anyone can drive a fake car and be alright with it is beyond me. How about going home from the bar with the blond who's all impressed with the nice 442, having a couple more drinks, gettin' hot and heavy, turning off the lights, and finding out "she's" a clone..

[Rallye469]

... and finding out "she's" a clone..

You did say something about turning off the lights, right?
Well then it's all good brutha...it's all good.


Adding 442 stripes to a cutlass doesn't bother me, putting a wing
on a convertible is a matter of choice. Putting 442 emblems on a
Vista doesn't even make me blink...
But doing your best to deceive people about what the car actually
is amounts to horse theft. Hang 'em high.

[344870M]

Having a very correct car myself with the exception of the factory service motor I can now have the motor re-stamped with the correct V.I.N. And who would be the wiser? It would bring bigger bucks and I doubt any one would know.

Those of us in the know need to do our best to keep the hobby legit. And those of us who are less knowledgeable need to familiarize ourselves with what is and what isn't out there.

As far as the "new" paper documentation goes, sure somebody somewhere has a pristine build sheet, broadcast card, or original window sticker but for the most part these pieces will show signs of age. It's hard to really fake authenticity.

[hamm36]

Look between door hinges on driver side. Post what you see, w 30 ect ?

[344870M]

Originally Posted by hamm36

Look between door hinges on driver side. Post what you see, w 30 ect ?

I don't follow.