Tedd Thompson

You might give these guys a try. I have been using their radial wide whites on my car and no problems except the wide whites take a little more cleaning to keep really ultra white for show. Price is very good...Tedd..http://www.callitw.com/

GaWajn

I will keep that in mind when I need to change my tires Tedd.

Good new/bad news ...

The good news is that I do not have an exhaust/manifold leak!
The bad news is that the ticking sound is coming from the valve train it seems!

There could be many different issues that could cause this problem.

If I understand correctly ... these engines had hydraulic lifters with non adjustable rockers ... correct?

If that is the case ... then the symptom probably points to something that is worn out/bent/broken. A sticking valve is unlikely says the old engine guru because the motor has gone through multiple cold/hot cycles and a sticking valve should have freed itself by now. The ticking has started about 300 miles after the oil change.

I went to the local chain lube shop for the oil change (Valvoline shop). They did not know what kind of oil to put in it. They called the head office who said to use regular 10W30 motor oil.

The engine guru explained about the lack of zinc additives in modern oils etc ... He recommends the DRIVEN HR1 Conventional SAE 15W-50 for my engine. I bought some and will change the oil ASAP. It won't fix the ticking but it might slow down the wear on other parts, plus it is a great oil for winter storage as I understand it.

I will not be driving the car very much (maybe just a local show), until I can get a confirmed diagnosis on the engine ticking. Looks like I will need to order a set of valve cover gaskets and start troubleshooting.

Let the fun begin!

PS: The same shop where the old engine guru works (semi-retired), does line honing of kingpin bushings. Looks like I will be using their services for that operation.

twintracks

The ticking is most likely a worn or collapsed lifter, or a rocker arm that has worn through the hardened seat. I've seen both.

redoldsman

I think twintracks is spot on with your ticking. The oil change place should have used Valvoline Racing Oil. It has more zinc in it. You can buy a can of ZDDP and add to your oil and be fine until your next oil change.

GaWajn

I changed the oil myself in my shop today with DRIVEN HR1 Conventional SAE 15W-50.

I will be troubleshooting the ticking noise further after the show season is over and I get some valve cover gaskets.

Thanks for the tip twintracks. That is encouraging news. I am not overly worried about the issue at the moment.

Tedd Thompson

Have you run the engine any length of time with the new oil? The first generation Old's lifters were noted for sticking and letting you know it's time to change oil.Some people use a upper valve train additive to help un stick a dirty lifter, me included. You might give that a try before start to open it up.

I haven't had any experience with Driven HR1 but 15-50 seems a little heavy on the viscosity end, but that being said if your engine has a lot of miles and you live in a hot environment there probably won't be a problem. Oil choices are like girl friends everyone has a different idea what is best.....Tedd

GaWajn

Something i noticed when changing the oil. It was black ... very black! The thing is ... I have only put maybe 500 miles, mostly highway, since that oil change!!!

It must be dirty/sludgy/varnishy in there. I might try doing the oil additive cleaning/flushing idea. Fixes in a can might or might not work ... but they are inexpensive to try at least.

twintracks

Any type of oil additive or oil that has detergents will wash the sludge down into the pan. In severe cases, this can plug the oil pump pick-up screen.
If it were me, I'd pull of a valve cover, and see how much sludge is visible, before trying any oil additives.
If there is a lot of thick sludge, I would not try additives, and I would run non-detergent oil until you have a reason to tear it down. I would do short mileage oil changes until your black oil lightens up.
If you don't find a lot sludge, the best, simple old timers trick for oil treatment is to add a quart of diesel fuel to the oil right before you change it. Run the car for a few minutes, and then drain the pan. Let it drip for at least 24 hours. The diesel will loosen and remove a lot of sludge, and carbon from the lifters. Then fill with oil, run the engine, and then change the oil again to get out any remaining diesel.
I repeat, this should not be tried if you find a lot of thick sludge, unless you plan on tearing down the engine for a full rebuild. There is too big of a chance of filling the pan with sludge, and plugging the oil pick-up.

GaWajn

Understood about the sludge.

Here are a couple of pictures of sludge in a 1952 Pontiac straight eight that I was working on a while back.







I would not have wanted to try running that engine with that amount of sludge ... but supposedly, it was driven into the barn on it's own steam ... and sat for 20 some odd years. That could also be 100% BS ... who knows ...

I have a show this weekend that is about 50 miles away. I will take a look at the oil after that run and see if it has turned black or not.

Ozzie

Since you have the shop manual, read the section on the Hydra-Matic. It will teach you a lot. It may have the shift speeds shown. If not, here's what my Hydra-Matic service manual shows for the Drive range (left Drive range on the older ones):

Upshifts: ............... minimal throttle ................full throttle
1-2 .............................7-10 MPH ....................20-23 MPH
2-3 ...........................12-15 MPH ....................36-40 MPH
3-4 ...........................21-25 MPH ....................70-75 MPH

Downshifts: ..............closed throttle
4-3 ...........................20-17 MPH
3-2 ...........................13-10 MPH
2-1 ..............................8-6 MPH

Before doing any adjustments I'd change all the fluid in the transmission (pan & torus) if it hasn't been done recently. Fresh fluid of the proper type can sometimes work wonders. If it's been there for 62 years, it's time for a change.
You could try adjusting the transmission linkage from the throttle. If it's too long it will produce low upshifts. Try shortening it and do a test drive. Remember where it was in case the problem is elsewhere.

GaWajn

Thank you very much for the shifting information Ozzie. This will be very helpful!

Rocketowner

X2 on Twintracks advise ,after you get the oil cleaner,you might try substituting 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil for 1 Quart of whatever Brand of oil you decide to use,but I do agree with Tedd that 15/50 sounds a bit on the thick side. Of course, that's my opinion, and opinions are like Buttholes,everyone has one, but they don't have to be the same! Larry

redoldsman

I have heard of using a quart of ATF in an old engine for a short time before changing the oil. If you have trouble finding filters, I have a couple. I believe they are both WIX which is one of the best filters made. I changed to a spinoff filter which I recommend. Marvel Mystery Oil is one of the best products. You need to be aware that most oil these days does not have enough zinc in it and will make the camshafts in these old engines go flat. There are numerous thread on here that you should be able to find by typing in ZDDP.

GaWajn

NAPA Gold brand filters are readily available at my local NAPA store. I have 2 on hand.

Marvel Mystery Oil was once available in Canada but not any more, unless you can find VERY old stock I believe. We have Seafoam which does a similar job, I have used Seafoam for many years and it is used very much like MMO.

After reading on this site ... http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/ ... I tend to agree with you guys. The 15 W 50 is probably not the best motor oil choice for my application. I will be choosing a different one after I finish my research.

A quote from Bob the oil guy's website ...

''The best way to figure out what viscosity of oil you need is to drive the car in the conditions you will use. Then use the oil viscosity that gives you 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM under those circumstances. For some reason very few people are able to get this simple principal correct. I cannot explain further. These same rules apply to engines of any age, loose or tight. Just because your engine is old does not mean it needs a thicker oil. It will need a thicker oil only if it is overly worn, whether new or old. Yet the same principals of 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM still apply. In all cases you need to try different grade oils and see what happens. Then choose the correct viscosity.''

This quote is but a small snippet of information found on his web page, but it sounds like words of wisdom to me.

In other words, you guys are correct it seems. A 50 weight oil is just too thick on start up for the car. I will be getting rid of it ASAP. Live and learn ...

GaWajn

After reading a LOT more on the subject of oil, it seems that the ZDDP levels in the oil today (600 to 800 PPM) is about the same amount used back in the day to help cure premature cam/lifter wear. We are talking about normal stock engines here, not racing/high performance motors. So it is pretty easy to find a good oil for my application.

Mobil 1 high mileage seem to have adequate ZDDP levels for my use as do the Valvoline High mileage oils. I just need to test a bit to see what viscosity my engine likes. I will probably start with a 5W-30 and see where I am at with oil pressure readings at different RPM's.

After my 200 miles trip today, I found that I had 30PSI oil pressure at idle, and 60+ at highway speeds. Not good ... the 15W-50 oil is too thick for my application.

I used this tool ...



... to try and pinpoint where the ticking is coming from. Seems to be coming from the number 1 or 3 cylinder area.

redoldsman

I have one of those and it has been handy over the years.

twintracks

Once you are in the area, use your finger on the rocker arm to find the ticking. You will "feel it". Oil pressure of 30 to 60 psi is perfectly average. I would only worry about oil pressure if it drops off the gauge at idle, or if you had some sort of pronounced rod knock.
Be careful with any oil info on the net that is more than a year old. The reduction of zinc levels in most oils is a very new change. I learned this from experienced vintage rally racers in the last two years.
I run Rotella oil, and add Lucas oil additives to get the required zinc levels.

Ozzie

Establishing current ZDDP levels may require a bit of research.
As far as viscosity goes, if the engine is "stock" without excessive wear, using the manufacturer's suggestions and the ambient temperatures will be a good place to start.
The suggestions you have to find the noise are good ones. It is likely in the valve train.

GaWajn

I understand what you are saying twintracks and Ozzie and I thank you for your input.

The research I am using to base my decision on is from engineering papers on the subject, with regards to the latest SM ratings. I would say that 95% + of the information that I have found on different forums about this subject seems to be hearsay and/or anecdotal information or about high performance/racing applications, which in itself may or may not be factual. Therefore I am digging deeper into the matter, as it applies to my driving habits, and staying away from forum info.

After my 200 mile trip, I looked at the oil color this AM. It looks pretty much like new, and I had put in 8 ounces of seafoam into the crankcase before starting out to see if it would be cleaning the insides a bit more. I am assuming that the inside of the engine may be cleaner than I thought ... time will tell ...

I will be keeping the 15-50 oil for the rest of the season, which is almost over in my neck of the woods.

As for finding the valvetrain noise, I will have to wait till I get some valve cover gaskets, which will not be till sometime later this year. I want to get a bunch of stuff from Fusick, all at the same time.

By the way Twintracks ... your avatar photo ... is that your car? If it is ... would you post a few pics of it here. It looks gorgeous!

twintracks

My '53 88 and some girl that was hitching.

Eightbanger

Hi guys, just joined the forum and have been finding my way round, just purchased my first Olds and taking delivery in a week or so and it looks like I've found it's twin, I maybe asking for your advice on a few things GaWjan.

Rocketowner

Great to see another fifties owner,welcome aboard.You'll find a lot of us posting questions and answers in the "vintage" section. Larry

Eightbanger

Thank you Larry, can't wait to get stuck in and learn everything I can.

GaWajn

Pretty much twins eightbanger! I haven't been here long, but this bunch is OK in my book They are quick to share info and help in any way.

Twintracks ... your 88 looks FABULOUS! I love it! The hitch hiker ain't too bad either! Did you restore it, or got it that way?

redoldsman

I bet she didn't stand on the side of the road very long with her thumb out. That is a nice looking 53.

GaWajn

Car cleaning this sunday. I have done a bit of research about cleaning wide whites, and there are various methods to be found out there.



I have chosen one of the least drastic methods with mild cleaners.



Spray nine is a cleaner that is readily available in Canada and is a good general cleaner that is not very harsh. 0000 Steel wool for the pitted chrome. A chrome cleaner/polish and a very fine scotchbrite pad from 3M.



I first cleaned the tire and rim with soap and water, then applied the spray nine and scrubbed with a floor brush. I found the white walls still a little dingy so I wet scrubbed with the scotchbrite.

I then applied a tire dressing which is not too ''wet look''.



Here you see the before and after ...



And re-installed on the car. I am happy with the results.

Eightbanger

And so you should be man....looks great.

You sure you didn't put a new tire on. lol

Eightbanger

GaWajn, can I ask if the glass in your 53 was factory tinted or have you put new glass in, or just a stick on window tint?

Thanks

GaWajn

It is not a stick-on tint. I have not changed the glass. I have only had the car for two months, and it came like that.

Maybe someone with more knowledge could maybe chime in about the origins of the blue/green tinted glass of my 53? Was this a factory option?

Eightbanger

Thanks mate, I've seen a few including yours on the net with the same tint, it must be a factory option then...I do love your 53, my inspiration.

Tedd Thompson

I don't think it was a option but the way they came from the factory though most have more of a greenish tint but that could be the picture or the way my computer picks up the photo.... Tedd

GaWajn

I can state for a fact that it is more blue than green. A few people have commented locally on the blue tint, but none seem to know if this was available from the factory or not. I will post a picture later today with a white/black card in the picture next to the glass (sorry I have no photographic gray cards on hand), so that any color people out there can calibrate the picture on their monitors to reveal the right color on their screens.

GaWajn

This is about 1 PM with a bright sunny ski. All pics have been corrected for color cast using the white portion of the test card that you see in the pictures. Only one picture showed any significant change in the correction.









It looks like the bluish tint is more pronounced to the naked eye in overcast conditions.

Eightbanger

You know the tint is so slight on the white card, I think it's only really obvious when viewed through two windows, if you know what I mean. Thanks for doing that mate.

twintracks

Tinted glass was a factory option.
In 1976, my dad bought a '53 Ninety Eight 4-door sedan that I drove all through high school in Northern Michigan. It was all original, rusty but trusty, a Lansing built car, green metallic, and no tinted glass.
A few years later we bought another '53 Ninety Eight 4-door sedan in West Palm Beach, FL. It was a loaded car with factory air, Autronic Eye, Wonder bar radio, padded dash, built in Atlanta, painted royal marine (turquoise), and it had EZ Eye tinted windows. I kept that car for 20 years.
I'd love to have either one back today...

Eightbanger

I thought it had to be an option, frustratingly mine has most of the above options except for the tint, and AC just clear..
Perhaps thats a clue, the car hasn't got the two options you would choose if you lived in a more sunny, warmer state.

GaWajn

As I will be quite busy for the next three months or so ... and I am not decided on the parts list to get from Fusick yet ... the old girl has gone into heated storage for the winter.

The kingpin project will have to wait for spring. I am undecided if I will change the front drums to the newer style bearings etc ... some studying to do ... so I guess this thread will not be dormant, but will slow down quite a bit. It will be more of a answer gathering and planning phase.

Frank Allen

First the king pins, they absolutely have to be reamed to size after being installed, so a reamer is needed. easy to over do it so go easy., on the hydramtic, the downshift rod that runs from carberator to transmission is adjustable, making it shorter will lengthen thhe 2-3 shift time, if adjusted too long will do the opoposit., you can just play with it until you get it right.
timeing in these engines has to be done right, spark advance disconnected and pluged, rpm set at 800 to 1ooo then adjusted, this was one of the early problems as the mechanics did not understand these procedures after that is done cam dwell set idle speed set back around 450 to 500 should run smooth. I would recommend getting a shop manuel so that you can follow these procedures. never run non detergent oil in this engine unless you like frozen valve lifters. when these engines are set up right they perform well, idle slow and smooth and get 17 to 20 mpg.

GaWajn

Thank you for the information Frank. I appreciate it.

Frank Allen

Lots of ideas on oils, I bought a new 54 and after the first oil change I had the ticking sound, after talking with a GM engineer he recomeneded a high detergent oil and straight 20 weight , he also said to add a bottle of marvel mystery oil at oil change which I did and the noise went away, I ran car 180 k miles before getting rid of it with no engine problems at all. as for valveoline I had a bad experience with. I also noted that they were using marvel mystery oil in small aircraft engines with great success. ozzie oviously knows a lot about these cars.. anyway this is my input on this oil thing, for what its worth