Mark57

Without starting a great debate on oil I was curious what you use your older stock motors? I have a 57 Ninety-eight that has a 371 CU IN motor that has 35500 miles on it.
Im going to run some high mileage Pennzoil 10W30 through it for a bit to see if it loosens up any crud/sludge in the motor.

Is synthetic a waste on these old motors?

Mark

Tedd Thompson

Probably not a waste to use synthetic but it made my motor leak like a 5 week old puppy.

I use Pens 10-40 or 10-30 with a Lucas zinc additive with great results your milage may differ...Tedd

oldcutlass

I wouldn't use synthetic oil, what have you been using in the past. I like Valvolene racing oils labeled for street use.

Yellowstatue

I was using Valvoline 20-50, but now am using Rotella 15-40 on my 371...Both seem to be OK.

Mark57

I have only had the car a few weeks. I have been driving it very moderately with the fluids that are in it which I am told where changed before winter.
I have a 59 Edsel that I used this same oil in with the Lucas zinc additive to help the flat bottom lifters in it. I had thought of adding it to the Olds but wondered if it was necessary with the hydraulic lifters?
My plan was to use the Pennzoil and monitor the colour of the oil to see how much sludge was being worked up. With only 35000 miles on it I don't think there should be to much in it. I do notice a rattle when it is first started but quickly goes away once it is warm and the oil is into the valve train.
Does the racing oils still contain zinc? I have heard that even those where dropping the zinc content. I don't mind spending the money on the Lucas with zinc but I only add about a third of the bottle at each oil change to keep the zinc level up in the Edsel.

Mark57

Does the Rottella still have zinc? I had heard it did until just recently but had not confirmed that.

oldcutlass

All diesel oils have reduced levels to comply with the new EPA regulations and to be used with catalytic converters. So the answer is at reduced levels.

DFitz

Good question about oil. I am also an A & P. This question comes up a lot for general aviation air cooled engines. The reason I bring it up here, is a lot of people are running synthetic oil in the air cooled GA engines.

These air cooled engines see a lot harsher environment than our old V-8's. The think goes like this,

1. If you have a mid time engine, guessing 35-75,000 miles, use what you have been using, probably not synthetic. Synthetic is great for cleaning and not building up sludge. However, if you switch, be prepared for leaks. All that sludge has accumulated in a lot of nooks and crannies, and is also helping to seal the orifices. If you clean it out, it will run just fine, but leak like crazy.You Also may typically see see a small drop in oil pressure as the bearing surfaces are cleaned.

2. If you have a new engine, use the synthetic. The lubricating properties are vastly superior to petroleum based oils, and perfect for GA engines. Since there is no sludge to clean out, no problems, and newer seals so no leaks. However, it costs a lot more.

3. With 35,000 miles I might try one of the new Castrol petroleum/synthetic blends. Only slightly more expensive than petroleum, and has the best qualities of both. Granted we don't really need the extreme lubricity of straight synthetic, but it will still clean.

4. Oil viscosity. I live in CA. It virtually never gets below freezing let alone down to 0F, and in most of my cars, with the exception of the weird Honda Odyssey--which uses 5w-20, I use 20-50w oil. Higher temps are more normal here than low, and it does lubricate better when hot. I would recommend nothing less than 20-50 in any western state for the old cars. Several cars over 200,000 miles using no oil and still going strong.

Also, how you start and warm up the car has a lot to do with startup wear. I'm guessing most of us don't start and instantly go in reverse out the driveway at 20 mph, like my wife does. I try and I try to get her to wait at least 30 sec, it's not too much to ask is it? My cars are also in heated/conditioned garages so the oil doesn't get that cold for start.



There was the day I was changing oil in the Honda, and wasn't paying attention, and tried to put 20-50 in instead of the 5-20. Was a little too thick when I poured it in. Only got about 1/2 a quart, so just left it in. It's in the details.

55/98

I just run straight 30w with zinc added. Sometimes hard to find.

belgium57olds

i am using 20w/50 castrol classic oil .

marc

twintracks

I'd be careful with any oil that has heavy detergents for sludge removal without knowing the internal condition of the engine. Any attempt to "wash down the sludge" can lead to plugging the oil pump pick-up screen and complete engine failure.
The only time to attempt to wash down sludge on a 50 year old engine is right before a rebuild.
I use 30 wt. Non-detergent oil in all original engines that do not have a pcv system.

D. Yaros

I use any straight HD 20w I am able to find. Finding it is getting harder and harder. To that I add a can of (blue) STP. It worked for me in the 60's, and works for me today.

Ozzie

The one that I have which is closest to yours is a 1955 with about 60K miles on it. Since it almost never freezes here, I've been using 20W-50 all year. If you get some cold weather, you may want something thinner. I've known the car since new, and the detergent oil keeps the engine clean, though as some say, there is a bit less lubrication due to its presence. If better lubrication is a concern, you could probably do the synthetic. I'd maintain the zinc level for the Olds as well as the Edsel. The hard part is finding out how much is already in a particular batch. Most major brands should work. I've been using Castrol with satisfactory results. After you settle on an oil regimen, you could start a whole other discussion on filtration, service intervals, etc.

Mark57

Thanks for all your advice.
Do any of you know if the oil pan can be dropped with the motor in place? I was thinking maybe this winter I could drop the pan and clean any sludge out of it to keep it from being loosened up and pulled into the screen. I cut the filter open and found it to be fairly clean, although I am not sure how many miles had been put on since it was last changed. Since its snowing here now it could be a long winter....

Ozzie

While I haven't done the job, page 8-11 of the shop manual indicates that it can be done with the engine in the car. The steps are:
1. Loosen starter motor.
2. Remove exhaust crossover pipe on single exhaust.
3. Disconnect idler arm support from frame.
4. Remove oil pan.
5. Clean oil pan. Use Methyl Chloroform to clean old sealer.
When replacing, use 3M EC 847 cement to attach new gaskets and seals to the pan. Apply a thin film of P.O.B. #3 on the exposed surfaces of the rubber seals so they maintain their proper positions during installation. Oil pan bolts should be torqued to 9-11 ft-lbs.
I haven't done the job on the Olds, but I have done it on another car. It can be exasperating, especially the going back on part. The position of the crankshaft sometimes makes a difference. Go slowly and carefully, try to keep the new gaskets & seals in position and clean, and minimize the obscenities. That screen on the oil pump should be removable, so you can take it off to do a thorough cleaning. Also, try not to lie directly on cold concrete; it can cause back aches.

gearheads78

As mentioned above never switch to synthetic oil on an old engine that has not been using it. It will pour right out all the old seals.
The best thing you can do is use Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs oil . They are expensive but a cruiser that rarely sees miles it won't be too bad.
There is a lot of debate about the pour in zinc treatments. Some will say they do nothing. Do some Googling and make your own conclusion.

MDchanic

Methyl Chloroform? That's trichloroethane. Hard to get these days, but it's great stuff - essentially a substitue for carbon tetrachloride, which is the same chemical, only with its methyl group replaced by a fourth chloride group.

You'll probably have to settle for Brākleen (which is tetrachloroethylene with a tiny bit of trichloroethylene) or lacquer thinner.

- Eric

Mark57

Thanks guys!
I think I will look at pulling the pan and give it and the intake screen a good cleaning. I'm sure it wont be to bad coming off but lining it up with new gaskets would be cause for an extra set of hands. I would assume using Permatex gasket seal a must with the new gasket. I'll have to get the garage warmed up so the back doesn't get to cramped up.

Mark

Mark57

I pulled the oil pan today....only breaking one of the worst bolts to get at!!

There was probably about 1/2" of heavy sludge in the bottom of the pan that will be good to get rid of. The question I have is should I spray a cleaner up in around the crank and arms to try and loosen up the light deposits on them? If so what would be best to use.
I figure it best not to clean and just dry wipe what I can so the oil isn't rinsed out of the pivot points.

MDchanic

It looks great - Don't mess with it!

- Eric

oldcutlass

That looks fairly clean, I would not spray anything up there. Let the oil clean it. If you found a lot of sludge in the pan you may consider looking under the valve covers and under the intake.

Mark57

I am planning to pull the valve covers tomorrow to see what may be lurking up top. The sludge in the bottom was a very smooth slurry nothing gritty that I could feel.
Its going to suck trying to get the broken bolt out...its just above a cross member and nasty to reach. Think i will put a little heat to the block and see if I can peen it loose some how. Not sure if I can get a drill in to it, possibly a small angle grinder.

oldcutlass

How much is sticking out?

MDchanic

I wouldn't sweat a single unreachable oil pan screw.

Modern sealants are much better than what existed in the fifties. Just goop it up properly and it should work fine.
You could mess up a lot of stuff trying to get it out with the engine in the car and a crossmember blocking it.

- Eric

Mark57

Its pretty much flush with the block and yes I wont be going at it to hard to cause any damage due to flying contaminants
I think I have a small carbide centre drill that will fit my die grinder. If I cant get it with that I will use extra Permatex there.
Thanks for the advice guys.

Mark57

Success!!
The centre drill worked just fine. Once I had the hole deep enough i put some heat to the block around the bolt before driving in the EZ out, drove in an EZ out and cranked it out. I had also soaked it over night with Seafoam Creep.
Pulled the valve covers off to find all looking good there as well. Very light deposits of sludge that could be wiped out easily. The gaskets where shot, old cork type, probably original and brittle.
Time to place an order to Rock Auto.

Mark

MDchanic

Great!

Always a relief to get a busted screw out!

- Eric

Mark57

Is there any better gaskets then the other out there?? I figure if I use Permatex on them all should be fine. I assume the ones I can get at Rock Auto will be fine. They sell Fel-Pro gaskets.

Mark

oldcutlass

The Felpro's are a good gasket. Very lucky on the broken bolt, you are living right my friend.

MDchanic

I would suspect that there would be a limited number of suppliers for 371 gaskets.

FelPro is a reputable brand name, and Victor Reinz is as well.
As long as it's not Brand X, I suspect you'll do fine.

- Eric

Mark57

Ya, i just took my time since its to farging cold to do much else right now!
We had 2' of snow last week which all melted away and now its freezing again so I'm sure the snow will be back soon....

Mark

Tedd Thompson

Not a thing wrong with cork gaskets if they fit good, remember they lasted almost 60 years if original to the car, something must have worked right....Tedd

Mark57

I was very surprised that I didn't have any leaks around them. The 2 mounting bolts where not tight at all.

Mark