My2nd 69 442

My 442 currently has a fairly stiff clutch and l would like to find a more softer clutch. With my age a current health issues it’s either find a soft clutch or look to find an auto trans car.
What would you guys recommend.
My 442 is virtually stock (400 cid) stock 4 speed and will never see the track.
Thanks

oldcutlass

Look into hydraulic throw out bearing setups.

66-3X2 442

Ram Clutch makes a diaphragm unit that's very easy to push. It's their Muscle Car clutch series and they claim 75% more clamping force than a stock unit. I have one in my 66 442 3X2 car and it works great.

My442

CenterForce II is soft with a stock clutch linkage.

joe_padavano

X2 on the Centerforce.

VC455

I have Centerforce in my Vista with mechanical clutch linkage. It is an easy actuation.

If I wanted it even easier to operate, I would use Centerforce with an hydraulic actuator.

wifespain

all diaphgram type clutches are easier to operate

My2nd 69 442

I think that the best route for me is the CenterForce II. I don’t want to use a hydraulic throwing bearings cause I really don’t want to add a reservoir to my firewall. Now I just have to find the correct size disc and pressure plate I need. I have emailed CenterForce for their recommendation.
Thanks for your suggestions
Jerry

Funkwagon455

If you opt for the Centerforce, do not mistakenly purchase a "dual friction", very sensitive! Not for the casual cruiser...

joe_padavano

I don't understand why people think that a hydraulic clutch will be lower force. It doesn't matter whether the clutch is mechanical rods, cable, or hydraulic. What matters is the design details of the pedal ratio and the linkage or hydraulic cylinders. Pick the wrong ratio of master cylinder to slave cylinder areas and a hydraulic clutch will be harder than any other. Pick the right ratio of pedal arm to clutch fork length and a mechanical clutch will be much easier. This is all just basic mechanical engineering.

VC455

Assuming comparable ratios, the mechanical clutch linkage with its sliding and rotational friction takes more effort than a linear hydraulic actuator.

In the before time, hydraulic brakes were found to operate with less effort than mechanically-actuated brakes (granted those mechanical actuators had a LOT of sliding friction so it's not a perfect comparison).

joe_padavano

Sorry, but without knowing the specific ratios of master and slave piston areas, that's a meaningless comparison. It's like saying that a digital watch is more accurate than an analog one. The friction in the z-bar pivot and push rod ends is nearly negligible as compared to the force needed to depress the clutch fingers. Your reasoning is flawed.

joesw31

What may be soft for one person, may be hard/ stiff for another person. It's all about preference. One of my cars has an original dull-disc set up, and it's relatively soft. My other car has a hays street clutch that is softer than the dual-disc set up. Both cars are the same year, and have the same clutch linkage.

My2nd 69 442

I readily admit that I am not an engineer and have no idea what you guys are talking about, but the info I’m looking for is what will give me a softer pedal with a stock style clutch setup. So far, I’ve seen recommendations for CenterForce and Ram clutch’s.
Is there anything that I can look for to insure that my clutch pedal “ratio” is correct?
I have approx 3/4” of free play nd have noticed that if I fell to push the pedal completely to the floor, I will get minor scraping of the gears. Any and all help appreciated

joe_padavano

Unless you've done something to alter the stock parts, the ratio is "correct". You are confusing pedal throw and adjustment with ratio. Totally separate things. Adjust the pushrod that runs from the Z-bar to the fork to change the height of the pedal.

VC455

Your first statement is correct, that is why I specified comparable ratios.

Regarding your second statement, I answered your original question. You have changed your statement to compare percent difference in effort. Your changed statement is now correct.

My2nd 69 442

CenterForce today responded to my inquiry and they recommended their CenterForce I disc, pressure plate, throw out bearing and pilot bearing.
Total cost of 507. 00
Still waiting on response from Ram clutches.

66-3X2 442

You won't be sorry
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-92762/overview/

rob1960

X2 That link that 66-3x2 442 put up is the same one I put in my '68. It's a nice setup & the price is right!!

My2nd 69 442

I’ve decided that I’ll go with the Ram clutch mentioned above.
What pilot bearing/ bushing do you guys recommend. Roller bearing or stock style bushing.
I would like to get everything together before I pull anything apart.
Thanks for your suggestions

66-3X2 442

Olds came with a bearing style but I used a bushing myself. Chevy used a bushing forever with no issues. The way I looked @ it was,bearings can go bad but bushings rarely do.

Koda

Let me introduce you to some production equipment I know.... To be fair, they didn't go bad, they just got "kilt."


I will comment that there is definitely a change in feeling between a hydraulic clutch and a mechanical.

nj_cutlass72

Did they say why they didn't recommend instead centerforce II? I'm also in the process and want to know pros n cons between centerforce I vs II?

My2nd 69 442

No they didn’t recommend or explain why anything about the CenterForce II. He only mentioned the CenterForce I and gave me his recommended part numbers for my application.

allyolds68

They recommended the CenterForce I for me as well. I installed it two years ago and haven't had any problems. I think the CF I is good to 400 HP which is fine for my 455.


As Joe said above, if you're getting grinding and have to push the clutch all the way to the floor, it's a simple rod adjustment, probably not the clutch. If the jamb nut loosens, the rod will back off pretty quickly. It happened to me about 70 miles from home at the NAOC meet a few years ago. I found a sloped curb I could drive up and fixed it in a couple minutes

My2nd 69 442

I'm gonna adjust the linkage as soon as I get over this current flu and are able to swap places with my hot rods and put the 442 on my lift.
I fully understand that this adjustment will not change the feel of the clutch, but maybe I can live with it. (if I live thru this flu)

JLawrence

Center force dual friction
they last and last 550hp daily driven El Camino had one in the early 2000s car is gone I still have the clutch.
Nitrous Fox Body mustang had the same center force in 3 cars and over 50k miles of hammering on it.
you won't regret this clutch. Hit by a car in the left knee when I was 18 I can't deal with a heavy clutch or could not back then

Killian_Mörder

There is almost no friction to contend with. Especially, if the slave cylinder is driving the release bearing directly. It's simply a different feel than a linkage or, worse yet, a cable system That might be due to overheated pressure plate springs. With all due respect, if you're riding the clutch, your next one will also get stiff