455 - Putting a 2004-R behind it, what changes/parts are required.
April 16th, 2017, 04:56 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 206
455 - Putting a 2004-R behind it, what changes/parts are required.
Mods: wasn't sure where was best to put this so if not here please move it. thanks.
Hello All,
I have a 2004-R on the water to me now. So the plan is to put this behind my 455. What I was particularly chasing was to put a list together of what things might need to be changed/altered, or what else I will need. I will list below what I think and please anyone who has done this reply and I will add to this. Such a list might be handy for others down the track.
I currently have a Turbo 400 so looking at the length etc, the 200 has the same mounting position as the 400 and will or can use the same mount, so I don't need to change that.
speedo cable will just screw on.
trans
torque converter
Yoke
Driveshaft will work just swap yoke
trans cooler - reuse
cross member will work - reuse
Gear selector? will work,might need adjusting
TV cable
dust cover
TV cable attachment at Holley carb
Trans fluid
Fasteners
Is there something I'm missing, or anything that anyone who has done this has run into that was an issue. I'm assuming since the 200 is physically smaller the trans tunnel is no issue. I also plan on running a deep pan but will just get the car going on the stock pan and sort out whether I need to raise the engine/trans to make sure the pan doesn't hang down. as my car scrapes on speed humps/driveways now, so I don't want to kill the pan by it being the lowest thing.
any ideas to add to this those who have done it before, or have ideas of what might be an issue.
I have purposely not made it about a specific vehicle but generic, to try and get a list together of things to think about, but if you know specifics to make the swap work in a vehicle then please add that too.
cheers.
Hello All,
I have a 2004-R on the water to me now. So the plan is to put this behind my 455. What I was particularly chasing was to put a list together of what things might need to be changed/altered, or what else I will need. I will list below what I think and please anyone who has done this reply and I will add to this. Such a list might be handy for others down the track.
I currently have a Turbo 400 so looking at the length etc, the 200 has the same mounting position as the 400 and will or can use the same mount, so I don't need to change that.
speedo cable will just screw on.
trans
torque converter
Yoke
Driveshaft will work just swap yoke
trans cooler - reuse
cross member will work - reuse
Gear selector? will work,might need adjusting
TV cable
dust cover
TV cable attachment at Holley carb
Trans fluid
Fasteners
Is there something I'm missing, or anything that anyone who has done this has run into that was an issue. I'm assuming since the 200 is physically smaller the trans tunnel is no issue. I also plan on running a deep pan but will just get the car going on the stock pan and sort out whether I need to raise the engine/trans to make sure the pan doesn't hang down. as my car scrapes on speed humps/driveways now, so I don't want to kill the pan by it being the lowest thing.
any ideas to add to this those who have done it before, or have ideas of what might be an issue.
I have purposely not made it about a specific vehicle but generic, to try and get a list together of things to think about, but if you know specifics to make the swap work in a vehicle then please add that too.
cheers.
April 17th, 2017, 08:46 AM
#2
4 Barrels of Laughs
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: I moved to pittsburgh so I can be near Primantis
Posts: 405
You really should make it lock up and tci, b&m etc make the kit (see: summit racing)
the 400 yoke wont fit the 200, but if the bearing will fit its a swap. any crossmember issues I never consider cuz I got a plasma cutter and a welder....
the 200 needs to have some sturdy internal parts to make it past the first day...you need to have the shift quality set up PERFECTLY and the TV cable. Unlike the 'simply apply' method of the 400 shift, the 200 requires a release and apply which must be quick, firm and precisely timed or else the torque and undoubtedly heavier car will strip those clutch packs and bands clean in moments.
what did you mean by the 200 is in the water? is it a flood car?
the 400 yoke wont fit the 200, but if the bearing will fit its a swap. any crossmember issues I never consider cuz I got a plasma cutter and a welder....
the 200 needs to have some sturdy internal parts to make it past the first day...you need to have the shift quality set up PERFECTLY and the TV cable. Unlike the 'simply apply' method of the 400 shift, the 200 requires a release and apply which must be quick, firm and precisely timed or else the torque and undoubtedly heavier car will strip those clutch packs and bands clean in moments.
what did you mean by the 200 is in the water? is it a flood car?
April 17th, 2017, 09:14 AM
#3
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 40,524
I moved your thread to the transmission section. You will need to mod your drive shaft as the 200-4R is the same length as a short shaft T350. I agree that you may want to consider beefing it up. Also you need to consider your rear end gears if your in the 2.?? something range.
April 17th, 2017, 09:46 AM
#4
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,259
Go back and look at his location...
No, it won't. The 200-4R uses the same CROSSMEMBER location as the TH400, but it is the same overall length as a short tail TH350. That makes the driveshaft too short. If you have a full size car or Vista with a long tail TH400, this makes the driveshaft REALLY short.
Has your 200-4R been built to live behind the 455? If not, your list just got a LOT longer...
You are NOT going to raise the engine/trans, so either live with the originial pan or get used to the deep pan hanging down.
And as I noted above, specific vehicle matters as far as what length TH400 was in there before. Also, while this is not the case with your car, 1966-earlier A-body cars that did not use the TH400 won't have the mounting provisions for the crossmember needed to fit the 200-4R.
No, it won't. The 200-4R uses the same CROSSMEMBER location as the TH400, but it is the same overall length as a short tail TH350. That makes the driveshaft too short. If you have a full size car or Vista with a long tail TH400, this makes the driveshaft REALLY short.
Is there something I'm missing, or anything that anyone who has done this has run into that was an issue. I'm assuming since the 200 is physically smaller the trans tunnel is no issue.
I also plan on running a deep pan but will just get the car going on the stock pan and sort out whether I need to raise the engine/trans to make sure the pan doesn't hang down. as my car scrapes on speed humps/driveways now, so I don't want to kill the pan by it being the lowest thing.
I have purposely not made it about a specific vehicle but generic, to try and get a list together of things to think about, but if you know specifics to make the swap work in a vehicle then please add that too.
April 17th, 2017, 02:35 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 206
You really should make it lock up and tci, b&m etc make the kit (see: summit racing)
the 400 yoke wont fit the 200, but if the bearing will fit its a swap. any crossmember issues I never consider cuz I got a plasma cutter and a welder....
the 200 needs to have some sturdy internal parts to make it past the first day...you need to have the shift quality set up PERFECTLY and the TV cable. Unlike the 'simply apply' method of the 400 shift, the 200 requires a release and apply which must be quick, firm and precisely timed or else the torque and undoubtedly heavier car will strip those clutch packs and bands clean in moments.
what did you mean by the 200 is in the water? is it a flood car?
the 400 yoke wont fit the 200, but if the bearing will fit its a swap. any crossmember issues I never consider cuz I got a plasma cutter and a welder....
the 200 needs to have some sturdy internal parts to make it past the first day...you need to have the shift quality set up PERFECTLY and the TV cable. Unlike the 'simply apply' method of the 400 shift, the 200 requires a release and apply which must be quick, firm and precisely timed or else the torque and undoubtedly heavier car will strip those clutch packs and bands clean in moments.
what did you mean by the 200 is in the water? is it a flood car?
Hello All,
Firstly , thanks for the replies. Secondly I'm sorry as it seems my intentions have opened a can of worms by not being specific.
I will answer all questions from top to bottom.
quaddriver: its an Art Carr trans, ( CPT) and he doesn't perfer to build lock trans, I asked about this and decided to go with what he suggested. Pros and cons, but compared to what I have now I can't see any issue, it's a daily driver not a drag car.
"200 is on the water" is probably a local reference. I'm in Australia = big island = anything of weight comes by boat.
April 17th, 2017, 02:36 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 206
I moved your thread to the transmission section. You will need to mod your drive shaft as the 200-4R is the same length as a short shaft T350. I agree that you may want to consider beefing it up. Also you need to consider your rear end gears if your in the 2.?? something range.
oldcutlass - yes beefed up trans. rear end is currently 3.23, I have a 3.69 which I will probably put back in the car. the 400 I have is 29" long its a short tail trans the overall length of the 200 is 28 1/4" so only 3/4" difference on big deal here.
April 17th, 2017, 02:43 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 206
Go back and look at his location...
No, it won't. The 200-4R uses the same CROSSMEMBER location as the TH400, but it is the same overall length as a short tail TH350. That makes the driveshaft too short. If you have a full size car or Vista with a long tail TH400, this makes the driveshaft REALLY short.
Has your 200-4R been built to live behind the 455? If not, your list just got a LOT longer...
You are NOT going to raise the engine/trans, so either live with the originial pan or get used to the deep pan hanging down.
And as I noted above, specific vehicle matters as far as what length TH400 was in there before. Also, while this is not the case with your car, 1966-earlier A-body cars that did not use the TH400 won't have the mounting provisions for the crossmember needed to fit the 200-4R.
No, it won't. The 200-4R uses the same CROSSMEMBER location as the TH400, but it is the same overall length as a short tail TH350. That makes the driveshaft too short. If you have a full size car or Vista with a long tail TH400, this makes the driveshaft REALLY short.
Has your 200-4R been built to live behind the 455? If not, your list just got a LOT longer...
You are NOT going to raise the engine/trans, so either live with the originial pan or get used to the deep pan hanging down.
And as I noted above, specific vehicle matters as far as what length TH400 was in there before. Also, while this is not the case with your car, 1966-earlier A-body cars that did not use the TH400 won't have the mounting provisions for the crossmember needed to fit the 200-4R.
Joe-
I have a short tail 400 which is 29" long, so if the 200 is as long as all the charts say then it's only 3/4" difference.
yes builder was told what the trans was going behind, given all the specs of the car- but I still worry , but what can I do, we'll see.
As to raising the engine, not being smart but I probably will, I have already raised it 3/8" and have the room to go over an inch above that. Joe , this isn't in a 70's car that came with a 455, I put the motor in there and made the engine mounts so it can go left or right or up or down, also forward or backwards, so I actually moves the motor/trans forward 3/8" earlier this year, so I will move it back that much which will hopefully take up enough of the difference between the 400 and 200 in length.
So in some ways I'm lucky as there is nothing holding me to a set location of the motor etc. Just means a lot more measuring set angle etc is needed to make sure things are right, as it's not a bolt in application.
again , appreciate all your input as I have never played with these trans' and don't wish to find a problem at the last minute as parts take a while to get here from the US.
thanks.
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