Soylentgreen

Hello, I am considering getting into a first gen toronado. In the yrs. 66-69 are there any major problems or models to avoid? With the engine oriented longitudinally in the frame I am trying to envision how the tranny gets the power to the front wheels. Can anyone recommend a good manual with diagrams of this unit. Thanks for your time as I begin my research to aquire a car I have always wanted.

rocketraider

Picture a Turbo 400 turned 180 degrees with final drive unit and half-shafts at the output end, and you'll have a good idea of how the Toronado FWD works. The torque converter drives a wide link-belt chain which then drives the THM425 input shaft. The trans/final drive unit is located driver side of the engine compartment and the engine is offset a couple inches to passenger side for room.

In spite of Jay Leno's German mechanic's ideas, this drivetrain is essentially bulletproof.

The factory published Chassis Service Manuals and supplements are hands down the best reference.

66 for first year collectibility and overall best styling, 67-70 for refinement and availability of disc brakes. 69-70 have single-piston disc calipers which are a bit easier to live with than the 67-8 4-piston units. With drum brakes, these cars are underengineered.

The 68-9 front end styling is an acquired taste though I like it. More aggressive than the 66-7. Comfortron cars are usually best left alone as the system is complex, parts are getting scarce, and disassembling the dash on these is no fun.

All of them have common rust issues in windshield A-pillars, lower fenders and rear wheelhouses. Pay special attention to trunk areas as the rear vent well drain tubes are often deteriorated or missing which will allow water into the trunk.

www.toronado.org is a good resource for the Oldsmobile E-car.

Oldsmaniac

I would also add the soft rubber boots covering CV joints up front often tear. This allows dirt and moisture/water to get into the joints and will cause early wear on these expensive parts. This is something to look for on the Toronado.

Soylentgreen

Thanks guys for that great info. Just one question to rocketraider, what is a Comfortron car? I asked about the brakes because I used to have a 68" Chevelle SS396 convertible that had the original drums all around. It took all week to get that car to come to a stop. Of course that was 20 yrs ago and I was driving it much too fast. haha. Wish I had that one back these days seeing as what they fetch at auction.

MDchanic

Comfortron is the electronic climate control system.
It works until it doesn't, and when it doesn't, it ain't easy to fix, as it requires unavailable factory diagnostic equipment, and they system uses many parts that are unique, and different from usual A/C parts.

Depends on how brave you are.

- Eric

Soylentgreen

Thanks for the quick answer. It would be nice to have working ac but it is not necessary. I like to think of it as accepting a challenge as well as being brave.

MDchanic

How about heat? Or fresh air? It's all one system.

- Eric

1969Hurst

A couple of drive unit pic's... not the best, but to help give you an idea....

1969Hurst

Also, great 1965 Car Life article attached....

rocketraider

As Eric says, Comfortron is automatic temperature control A/C system. Set the desired temperature and let it do its thing, completely automatically. A working Comfortron is a pleasure to have; a broke one is like a friend called it "Gumpfortron", as in it was like a bawx o' chawklets, you never knew what you were gonna get.

A retired Olds Zone service manager once told me that well over half their zone level service jobs from 1966-73 involved trying to get a recalcitrant Comfortron to work, and the system was revised from year to year in efforts to make them work reliably, so that's a big reason I'm wary of a Comfortron-equipped car.

Not all Toro have Comfortrons though they are pretty common. They could also have the base Custom Air Conditioning which is simple to operate and maintain, but it shares a lot of parts with the A-body car meaning NOS replacement parts are $$$. A lot of Toronados came with a simple heater and defrost system.

To tell whether car is Comfortron, the control head will have a single sliding lever and positions OFF LO HI DEF DE-ICE and a temperature set dial. Custom A/C uses a conventional pushbutton operated control head with a temp lever at the bottom.

JohnnyBs68S

Didn't the diff on the '66s use planetary gears instead of the more conventional spider gears like the '67+? Seems I noted this difference in some repair manual when I had my '69 and made a mental note that there must have been a good reason to switch to the spider gears on the later models.

I also remember having a hard time finding the short horizontal shocks for the rear axle......back in the mid '80s. The one place locally that had them in stock pulled their last pair off the shelf for me and man were they DUSTY!

Also, '66-67 has 425 for motovation, '68-7? used a 455.

I take it that the "Comfortron" climate controls used a vacuum-operated "motor" to rotate a valve body that had a dozen or so small vacuum hoses connected to it going to all the air flapper doors under the dash? If so, I think Cadillac was using a similar system in those years, my grandfather's '67 Coupe de Ville had this and it never worked quite right. Glad my '69 Toro had the plain-old system, it'd frost the vents w/ the A/C on high. Seems about everything else on these were vacuum operated, even the door locks and trunk release!

waterzap

My 67 still has the original transmission. Never rebuilt. Of course not as smooth as a new one, but still works in all the gears. The bits that make the car go are very good and very reliable. Things like the comfortron was probabably good at one time. But if they break, probably more trouble than worth getting it fixed. You are most likely using this car as a weekend car in good weather. Windows are all you need. You can buy the horizontal shock new now. Costs something like $150 for the set, they do reproduce them

Soylentgreen

Waterzap, thanks for your reply. I appreciate all of you guys helping to educate me on these cars. Check out the beautifully restored 66" in Hemmings online. I wish the timing was right now for that one...

Soylentgreen

Oh I also got myself a copy of the Hot Rod October 1965 issue with the debut of the Toronado.

hullinger

I think the earlier comment about the CV joint boots is a very important inspection point on these cars. I would add that if the car has an original engine than it's prudent to replace the timing gear. With theses Toro's being front wheel drive, you have to pull the engine to get to the timing gear set. It's either a big expense or a whole lot of effort but necessary none the less. Also, about air conditioning, these cars are very warm to be in since they typically have dark color interiors and with steeply raked front and rear windows. They soak in a whole lot of heat so if you plan on much warm weather driving than A/C is pretty important.

Chris