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Need help to determine what the problem is? While sitting at idle or with engine off you can shift through all gears but when you start to drive and go from 1st to 2nd most times it is almost impossible to shift into 2nd gear. It does NOT grind you just can not pull shifter back into second. it will go thru neutral but will not go to 2nd so you can then go to 3rd then to 4th all ok. When coming to stop you can down shift ok into 3rd but again can not get it to go into 2nd at all, again no grinding just wont go passed neutral. you can go onto 1st if needed. So the question is it internal or the hurst shifter. Underneath all appears to be ok. No binding that I can see, but again it will always shift properly when engine is off. Any help appreciated, thanks Mike
Sounds to me like the 2nd gear synchro is shot. It gets more abuse than any other gear. When everything is not rotating (stopped or off), it won't prevent 2nd gear from engaging, but when moving everything is spinning, the synchro helps match the speed of the input and output shafts so the gears engage. You might try double-clutching or rev-matching to get it into 2nd while moving, but if you are trying to bang 2nd at WOT, the synchro needs to be doing its job.
Makes sense when you say it out loud. thanks for info and hoped it would be shifter related. FYI and prior this report I had this issue I have had the problem but was now having shifter issues so I had trans out to replace tailstock due to shifter mounting issues. While doing so I looked at everything when side cover was off and saw no obvious issues as in metal chunks or shavings either brass or other. But not knowing anything and just rotating shafts to inspect I did not see anything obvious like teeth missing, etc. All that said it could have been worn to the point I am at and I wouldn't have caught it. And by the way I am old and don't drive it hard and NO banging 2nd or any gear. but who is to say those before me probably did drive it hard???? As long as I can work around it I will live with it, Thanks again, Mike
While this could contribute to problems engaging gears, I would think that a clutch that doesn't fully disengage would make it difficult to engage all gears, and due to the ratio differences, getting it to go into 1st would be most difficult, not 2nd.
Baby steps in troubleshooting.
Verify clutch adjustment and bell crank condition.
Verify shift linkage condition and throw adjustment.
If all the above checks ok then its time to drop trans.
Might as well (MAW) plan on a flywheel, TO bearing, and clutch service while its apart.
While you're in there...check trans mount, lube clutch pedal pivot and ball crank, change diff fluid and inspect u-joints too. (MAWs are alive and well).
clutch releases about 1-2" off floor so I think it is ok. As far as the MAW's goes I will deal with what I got until time tells me otherwise. Your list will come in handy at that time. Thanks everyone for your input and suggestions. As long as it doesn't grind and it doesn't and hasn't so I will stay the course Thanks, Mike
There are adjusting bolts on Hurst shifter (it IS Hurst Pro-Comp, yes?) that act as travel limiters for the throw of the lever. You should be able to reach them from under the car. It almost sounds like the 2nd gear (shared with 4th gear) throw is adjusted too far into the shifter body, limiting the travel too much. There are a couple other trans-internal clearances that could be out of spec that would mimic this trouble.
There is a great book called Muncie 4-speed Transmissions How to rebuild and Modify. I just finished it. It's by Paul Cangialosi, the owner of www.5Speeds.com. This guy knows what he's talking about. I highly recommend the book. For about $25, It includes all kinds of detailed photos, step by step directions for a rebuild, parts lists, etc. The website is a plethora of information, and there is a forum there, very similar to CO. You can ask questions of other members, as well as Paul himself. Check it out, he may be able to point you in the right direction just by a quick exchange. He even encourages readers to call him at the shop.
Does a Hurst have this slot for the rod adjustment tool as my 68 Dearborn vette has?
Well, I certainly would love to show yall a visual...I tried to download this 800K not M pic about 5 different ways even from my phone. I even see an icon resembling an image here in this very box where it should be...but no image. I fail once again. WTF what a POS these internet brands sites are. They all do the same thing, must be me. It gets to 90% and just hangs. What'd the geeks update this time
Last edited by droldsmorland; February 26th, 2019 at 10:01 AM.
There are adjusting bolts on Hurst shifter (it IS Hurst Pro-Comp, yes?) that act as travel limiters for the throw of the lever. You should be able to reach them from under the car. It almost sounds like the 2nd gear (shared with 4th gear) throw is adjusted too far into the shifter body, limiting the travel too much.
Rich
On an Olds factory Competition Plus there aren't any stops (see below)
Originally Posted by droldsmorland
Does a Hurst have this slot for the rod adjustment tool as my 68 Dearborn vette has?
Yes, there are slots in the bottom, See pic below circled in red
Last edited by allyolds68; February 26th, 2019 at 10:12 AM.
Agree its worth eliminating the easy stuff first before tearing into the trans. Make sure the shifter is mounted solidly, the rods adjusted properly, no slop in the bushings, clutch is disengaging properly, etc.
If there was a stop adjustment bolt and if it was adjusted too tight, he wouldn't be able to get it into 2nd when stopped (or 4th if it shares the same stop).
That slot for the rod adjustment in Mike's picture, IIRC, is used to pin the 3 levers into a neutral position to allow adjustment of each rod relative to the transmission neutral detents on its 3 levers. With the rods disconnected from the shifter, put all 3 trans levers into their "N" position detent. Find the right sized drill bit to stick in the holes in the shifter levers, aligned with that slot to define "N" on the shifter levers. Then adjust each rod length so that they slip into the shifter levers. Install the clips to secure the rods to the shifter, remove the drill bit, and take it for a test drive.
My money is still on the 2nd gear synchro.
Last edited by JohnnyBs68S; February 27th, 2019 at 04:31 AM.
clutch releases about 1-2" off floor so I think it is ok. As far as the MAW's goes I will deal with what I got until time tells me otherwise. Your list will come in handy at that time. Thanks everyone for your input and suggestions. As long as it doesn't grind and it doesn't and hasn't so I will stay the course Thanks, Mike
1 or 2 inchesis a little low to me. When the clutch gets warmed up from driving the clutch may not be releasing 100%.
February 22nd, 2019, 03:10 PM
68 Cutlass Supreme 4 spd muncie
) that act as travel limiters for the throw of the lever. You should be able to reach them from under the car. It almost sounds like the 2nd gear (shared with 4th gear) throw is adjusted too far into the shifter body, limiting the travel too much. There are a couple other trans-internal clearances that could be out of spec that would mimic this trouble. 
I'm always learning!
