Daniel Marsh

Hello,
So I got everything off the engine. I need to remove the front exhaust pipes, and separate the trans from the engine. Here is my question, where are the engine/trans mounts and are there any tips I need to help make this easier? So far this has been very easy so I am waiting for it to get difficult. I know I must remove the starter and an access plate to get to the torque converter and flex plate as well. Any help with this would be great as I would like to remove the engine the rest of the way tonight.

Macadoo

If your talking about separating the exhaust from the manifolds, you're in for some struggle. I never did get mine out, had to cut them.
My only experience is with a '71 350 but the bell-housing bolts are at the back of the engine block, at the top and around the bell.m Do you have the manual? If not I would google-image search a lot of this before your attempt. The side bell-housing bolts were a real drag to get my hands on.
Good luck.

Macadoo

And yes, remove the TC bolts first. I had to turn my motor over with a breaker bar on the crank bolt to access all the TC bolts.
Also, when you're raising the engine with the hoist, remember that the suspension has to unload so it looks like you're pulling the car up by the engine. You're not.
Support the trans with a floor jack too.

MDchanic

You need to read the exact procedure in the Chassis Service Manual.

The Toro motor is not retained like the other motors. It is secured in the front at the timing cover as well.

- Eric

Don R.

You should try to access an FSM if you can. I never pulled a Toro motor but I did pull one from a 67 Eldo a million years ago, and I seem to remember some hidden bolts around the final drive assembly that caused me some trouble. I'm sure the Toro experts here can confirm or deny...

waterzap

If you go on the Cadillac lasalle club forum and search around there. There are some guys that have had to pull the engines for Eldorados. I have never had to pull mine, thank goodness, but apparently there are some hidden bolts. Plus apparently that transmission is so, so heavy

Daniel Marsh

You are correct, and I did read the procedure which had little detail. I know about two nuts at the cross member which will allow the front to lift once separated from the trans axle, but are there any mounts on the side of the engine? I also know that there are a couple of through bolts that hold them together as well. Just curious about actual mounts.

waterzap

Were you able to pull the engine? Any pics for us ?

Daniel Marsh

O.k., so what does one do when the engine is seized? I cannot turn the engine either way clockwise or counter in order to access the torque converter bolts. Do I unbolt the axles at the flanges leaving the short axle in the trans and pull the engine/trans together? I also considered pulling the engine away from the trans with the converter, but then I would need to disassemble the front of the car to make room. Any HELP would be appreciated,

TripDeuces

Don't try and pull the engine and trans as a unit. That's just a world of hurt on a Toronado. Especially if you've never done it before. The engine has a front mount on the timing cover as stated above and bolts to the transmission in the rear.
You need to get the engine unstuck so you can gain access to the converter bolts. Trying to pull the engine and converter as a unit is just going to break something. If getting the engine unstuck means doing a partial tear down of the engine then do so. Remove the heads and whatever else you need to do to get it to turn. Do you know what is causing it to bind? That would be my first question. If it's nothing more than rusty rings then liberal amounts of penetrant sprayed through the spark plugs holes may do the trick. Patience young Jedi

The exhaust is easily removed from the manifolds right up top, at least on the drivers side. You might have to go underneath for the passenger side just like a regular car.

Daniel Marsh

O.k., not sure what may "break", as you can separate the axle haves via bolts. We have added shift linkage, speedometer cable, and what else to disconnect? All the rest has been removed just as the service manual says to do when separating engine and trans. I am confused as to "a world of hurt" but only "if I have never done it before"? How is one to partially tear down an engine to get to spun bearings in a car that you must remove the engine to take off an oil pan? As for the exhaust, I have already disconnected the manifolds at the front pipes just as the service manual says.

I have plenty of patience, I sell Corvette parts for a living.....

TripDeuces

Are you taking the engine and trans out as a unit or separating the two? My concern was yanking the engine away from the transmission without removing the torque converter bolts. You run the risk of damaging the front pump and possibly other things. The engine will not come straight out past the axle that goes under the pan. It's bolted to the passenger side of the block. That means you have to remove that axle completely. I've never done that on a Toronado so I can't comment on how it comes out. It's just a whole lot easier to remove the engine only if you can find a way to rotate the engine to gain access to the torque converter bolts through the access hole in the trans case. Here's a pic of the drive train to give you an idea.

http://www.use.com/supersize.pl?set=...7d63192f5&p=1#

You never mentioned how the engine was seized but now I know it's spun bearings. Are you positive about that? By all means do what has to be done. I'm just saying it's easier to remove the engine only

J-(Chicago)

Pull the pan off of the dud engine, and smack the counterweights with a sledge hammer to turn it. If you spun a bearing so bad that it locked up, the crank and that rod are junk anyway. You may break a ring land on the offending piston if it has stuck rings, but again, junk anyway.

deaddds

I don't think the pan on a toro comes off without lifting the motor. Stupid engineers.

2blu442

I got a buddy who's a mechanical engineer. He said they don't worry if its hard to get out. They make enough money to pay someone to work on their cars

2blu442

OP, did you get it pulled yet? Any new problems arise?


John

Daniel Marsh

Hey all,
Disregard the service manual as it is easier to pull as a unit both engine and trans. Now do we do a full rebuild or swap with another 425 or 455? I will be keeping the engine and re-using the trans but sure would prefer a swap so as to be able to drive it sooner than later...

Daniel Marsh

Yes, those are W-30 red fender wells in the parts department in the corner......

deaddds

Don't take this wrong but was the guy in the picture helping? My shop teacher would roll in his grave if he saw that hulk being pulled out in flip flops! I remember the lame movies on primitive Pete we had to watch.

Daniel Marsh

Nope, just a neighbor who is always curious as to what we may be doing. The garage I rent is behind his house.....

65B01Delta

Ahhh, Yes I remember watching those Primitive Pete videos...... Ha !