1966toro

I recently aquired a 78 toronado that has factory t tops. After looking online i have yet to see another one like it. Any ideas in regards to production numbers??

Jim's rare 80

Hey. Where's the pics.
Untill you post some pics, I won't be able to say I've seen one either.
But I'd love to.

Allan R

Is this by any chance an XSR? That was about the top of the line in 78. Personally, I have never seen a Toro with a t top. Lots of em with a moon roof. Got a picture to post?

Last really nice 78 Toro XSR I saw was a survivor with less than 50,000 miles. Gun metal grey. A real dreamboat. Ironically, I took a used 78 XSR for a test drive in 1979. It was light metallic blue with matching padded vinyl landau roof. It had the moon roof and all the goodies. Didn't buy it because it didn't have any guts even though it was a 455, and the tranny didn't sound healthy either. Holy cow though! There was enough room in the front to stretch out Herman Munster and not touch the toe kick.

joe_padavano

They're pretty rare. The original XSR showcar had power t-tops that slid into the middle. That feature was sadly dropped for production. Does your 78 have the MISAR crank trigger ignition?

Toro68

I hears ther was one one 77 o r78 Toronado with T- Tops. I sawit back in July of 1995 at the Olds Natioansl in Greensboro, NC

kcars

That may be the Toro that an older fellow here in Ct restored about the same time. He belonged to the New England Olds Club then, but has since passed away. Per him it was a GM concept car and it was near junk when he found it. He lived near Danbury Ct and it was always at the local N.E. Olds Club annual meets. I havn't seen it around here in years. I think it was maroon/red and as I remember it wasn't very practicle- Huge electric heavy t-tops slid inside the roof when open and didnt add anything to the looks plus the tops didn't open very far as they almost collided into each other.
Still a very interesting rare Toranado. I hope its still on the road.

Allan R

Ya know this thread is 4 years old......interesting add on history though

kcars

Ya I know. Found it on you-tube.... LOL.
I still thought an update was in order as I bet this great Toro still exists.
I know the restorer (sorry I forget his name) spent a large sum on it's restoration and it drew large crowds at the CT shows.
Just love old cars and I've been in the hobby since I was a little kid.
I'll be 70 tomorrow !

Hairy Olds

1977 XSR circa 1981-82 on the southwest side of Milwaukee. Per my investigation roughly 12 were made. Some removable t-top Toros were made aftermarket.

kcars

Those were aftermarket . The Ct Toronado I'm talking about was definately a GM concept vehicle. There was only about a 3-4 inch metal space as I remember between the two half tops.
I hope someone here comes up with this cars current whereabouts.

rocketraider

That was Don Ross's car. Seems it caught fire on the way back from a National Meet somewhere. I'm not sure if he ever had it repaired.

kcars

That's him and the car.
Sorry I forgot Don's name but your correct it was in a fire now
that you mention it.

Allan R

Sad. At least there are pictures of it 'before'. Not wild about the color, but that was an elegant design with that wrap around rear window. There are 3 of these (78's) in the local boneyard right now. Of course none of them have the T tops.

kcars

You have "before" pictures of Don's car ?
Can you post them ?

Allan R

Sorry, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My take was those pics of the car in the post was the 'before'. As in 'before the fire', as per rocketraider's post. Who was Dan Ross?

Bens71442

Recently found two pictures of the 1977 Toronado XSR prototype. When I met Don Ross back in 1997, at the "Eyes on Design" Edsel Ford estate Fathers day car show - (where I first seen his freshly restored Carmine red metallic XSR Toronado)- he stated only one was built- and I was looking at it. Eyes on Design that year was commemorating the 100th Anniversary Of Oldsmobile this year- of course.

Hairy Olds

Bens71442

If one prototype was built - then what gives on the yellow/beige one? unless it was painted.....? Then in 1997 when I met Don- at the 'Eyes on Design show" in Grosse point, MI the car was there with a Carmine red paint job and Black velour interior?

He demonstrated the T-top operation- in front of me and my brother and dad...... and that car was red- with black interior......prior to my days of digital cameras- I have 20 photos on my 35 mm camera I took of that very car.

Hairy Olds

There were about 12 of XSR cars made before the plug was pulled. How these got out is still unexplained. The yellow car is the only one I have seen without a vinyl top(notice the mldgs around the rear window). I knew of the red car before Don bought it. I had pics sent to me of the car when it was still in the junkyard and it was way too rusty for my liking.
The silver XSR just popped up on the radar recently.

76 Regency

WOW, this is the first time I'm seeing pics of other XSR's other than Don Ross' (and the white one shown in Setting The Pace). I've seen Don's car twice in person, once at the '97 Cetennial show in Lansing and then again at the new owner's house in NJ in '04. The funny thing is, that new owner swore up and down that it was the only one ever made and he was so confident that he offered me $5000 to prove him wrong! Now might be a good time to dig up his email address! I believe his name is Matt. I bought some parts from him from a silver XS that I believe had caught fire but it was a sunroof car, not a T-Top XSR.

Bens71442

Does anyone know how badly damaged the Carmine red- formerly Don Ross XSR is?

I can't help but wonder- if the vintage pictures I pulled up on a Bing search which shows that the XSR was a Silver metallic car (note black interior) is really Don Ross cars - mistakenly re-painted that carmine red color?

Don told me back in 97 he had that car restored as it was rotting away in a (swap) in some IRS holding pen somewhere as the owner was busted for some kind of tax evasion or drug related scandal- and the IRS confiscated it- hence thats how it was found- rotting away in a damp environment.
My pictures back in 97- (again on 35 mm film) shows the operation of the T-tops as they slid inboard and stored into the center T-bar (with a 1/4 of the window still protruding in the fully retracted position.

The weather stripping was toasted....as I recall but back to my wondering- if the silver car shown in the Bing images; is in fact the Don Ross car re-painted beige yellow in the used car lot, and then re-painted again by Don Ross in that Carmine red.

The question remains- was ONLY 1 ever built but the newley discovered photos show otherwise- but each has the black interior.

Hairy Olds

Uh I stated that there were about 12 of the XSRs made and no the yellow car was not red at anytime and the silver car I posted a pic of was a recent find. My mother had a XS that had a brazed top on it and a very low vin#. I talked to a gent that worked ASC and he stated that they had a whole bunch of these cars with the cuts for the t-tops. The had to replace the tops after the program was scraped.

Bens71442

I came across a Eldorado with the T-tops in Port Huron, MI 15 years ago or thereabouts....

Don Ross swore to me only one was built- I guess he was wrong.... however- I clearly remember the Ross car as being very poorly restored- to a degree- bumper alignments- overall quality of the paint job- missing trim....

I wonder if any lower mileage originals of the 12 are in private collectors hands- or lost to the ages.
.

76 Regency

I finally dug out a ton of pictures I've been meaning to go through and found 2 shots of Don Ross' car from the '97 Centennial show in Lansing. You can't see the roof all that great but it's obvious which car it is. Unfortunately, I didn't get any pictures of it when I saw it again in '04. Like stated above, it was a bit rough all around. I just saw another post (here or elsewhere, can't remember) about the whole history of this car. I'll see if I can find it and post the link in here.

Check out the pics.

76 Regency

Here's the article I mentioned. Worth reading for sure:

http://www.toronado.org/FAQ/GenII/xsr.htm

MarkDavid

i`ve got a `78 Olds Toro XS car that i need some parts for . Any one know of anyone that can help ?

76 Regency

Hi, what exactly are you looking for? Do you have any spare parts of your own as well?

MarkDavid

Needing the rear fillers , and would like them to be white if at all possible to match the car , but if i can find any FACTORY ones that are still pliable and not ready to fall apart , i`ll take any color . I`m not very fond of the aftermarket ones ( haven`t even checked to see if they are available for this yet ) since i tried some on my `73 Olds 98 and they didn`t fit worth a crap . Thats a start , i`ll have to go take another look at it to see what else it`s needing which isnt much as it only has 77k original miles.

76 Regency

I'm not sure that there are quality repro fillers for the Toros just yet. The ones you tried on your '73 98 were probably fiberglass, right? I've never heard of anyone being happy with the fiber ones on any model car. I spent a boat load of time working with Plastic Parts Inc in Florida to make a quality reproduction ABS filler for the '75/'76 98 and I'm very happy with them. They are looking to make repro fillers for other model cars as well but they need good original sets to start with which is not easy to come by. I would keep an eye on ebay and on here. You'll eventually find a set or two. It sounds like you have a nice car. Enjoy it.

MarkDavid

Yes , I talk to Liz there at Pp quite often and order dashes for the dodge trucks and fillers for our customers , I always have to give her a hard time since she doesn`t have what i personally need . She`s good people , enjoyable to talk to . I`ve got my search on E-Bay and am waiting ! Was really trying to land something here locally off of CL but have yet to see anything . Thanks for ALL input 76 Regency

76 Regency

Liz is great people and we've spoken plenty of times as well as we went through the process of reproducing the 98 fillers. They are supposed to be putting out a new website and catalog soon and the ad for the '76 98 fillers is supposed to have a picture of my car Been waiting a long time to see it but Liz promises it's coming.

Herbie

Well, hello to all. How some of you and many others find all this information on the XSR is something else. The XSR story has been a secret for a long time and for a reason. First off, Heinz Prechter, the inventer of the sunroof and founder of ASC, who built the XSR for Oldsmobile, was a good friend of mine. I know more information than anyone else about the XSR project and how many cars were really built. The owner of the XSRs is also a friend of mine and gave me the ok to tell the story. He has a private antique car museum and would rather keep out of the spotlight. Everything you have heard until now is incorrect. There were "Not" 12 cars built. Fact. The silver car on the 77 new brochure is artwork, fact. There is a photo of a white 76 car showing T Tops and a wrap around rear window. Look close, the tops and back window are airbrushed. There is no such car. Fact. Again, trust me, I know because I was there from the start. However, there was more than one built. Ready? This is the first time this is coming out. An Oldsmobile history book is in the works right now and a full chapter is going to cover the XSR. Look for it in hardcover sometime between 2016/17. There were infact, three cars built. They all went down the line the same day in the summer of 1976, the first day of the new 77 models, all with black interiors. One red car, the one Don Ross restored, the silver car that came out into the spotlight several years ago and yes, that cream yellow car you see photos of sitting at that car lot in 1981, built without the padded vinyl top. No more and no less cars were built. These three are it! After Olds dropped the idea, the cars were to be scrapped, however, ASC would not allow this to happen so after a battle with GM, they bought the red and yellow cars in early 1978 to try and promote the idea to other car makers. Heinz kept the silver car for his personal use as a weekend toy. You will also find several photos of the silver car in Car and Driver and Motor Trend's fall 1976 issues showing the new 77 model year cars. After ASC gave up the idea in early 1981, they sold the red and yellow XSRs to that car dealer in WI. I also know that car dealer. At that time, he was able to get hold of some other concept cars and he had some kind of connection with ASC. If you look close in one of the yellow car's photo, you will see the red car's front end in the photo. Yes, that's the red XSR. How did you guys miss that? Nobody thought of that one right? Remember hearing stories about the red car being on a used car lot around this time? Yes, it's the same car lot. The red car sold in early 1982 to a guy who later had some legal issues and the car was impounded where it sat for years rusting away. After the fog cleared, it was sold to a collector where it sat for more years until Don Ross restored it. Heinz promised the silver car to an ASC employee. He bought it and again, it stayed out of the spotlight for years being used very little. The red car has been known to be around since the start while the other two were, at least in everyone's mind, either to have been scrapped or never to have existed in the first place. Only myself, the current owner and a few other knew all this time about the other two cars. Not even Don Ross knew about the other cars. The current XSR owner was waiting for the silver car to come up for sale. He was contacted before the car went on the market and bought it on the spot sight unseen. Both the red and silver XSRs are in his collection, together for the first time since they were built! As for the yellow car? Records show it was wrecked in the summer of 1983 and scrapped. Unless photos come up of the car showing it being scrapped, you can never say it's 100% gone, however, we are pretty sure it's gone, otherwise, this story would not come out yet, if there was a chance we could still get hold of this car. I myself and the current XSR owner have been looking for this car both in the US and just about every other country without luck. If it's still around, we will find it someday. As for the Eldorado Power T Tops cars, ASC had already built seven more top units and Cadillac agreed to have them installed on seven new 1978 Eldorados to be used for top GM officals. Those seven cars all exist today, owned by private collectors. It's great that all seven were saved. Heinz was a wonderful person and we will miss him always. So, to wrap this up, The Caddys are still here, the two XSRs were saved, although the third car is gone. I hope it turns up someday, somehow. Now the public knows.... I really should be getting paid to disclose all this information after this being a mystery for so long, however, my story will be in the up coming book and out of respect for Heinz. Thank You for everything you have done Heinz. You will not be forgotten buddy.

Herbie

Here are a few photos of the XSRs together. As you can see, they are both alive and well in 2014, parked together in my friend's garage. Both cars are now together again for the first time since they were built, after more than 35 years. Enjoy.

Octania

That's pretty bodacious.
Thanks, Herbie, whoever you are.

SO, having come down the line sequentially... are the VIN's sequential??

Side note
I just found an NOS "XSC" emblem in the stash
So close, and yet so far from XSR...

local boneyard had TWO XS models a couple yrs ago, I wanted to save the rear glass but not one shred of interest, so, they got crushed. I did ****** the crank triggered ignitions off two 77 Toro's about that time.

http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Rock...indow.jpg.html

76 Regency

Herbie, thanks for the pic. That is so cool! Hoping to see some more pics of his other cars soon. Happy New Year everybody!

Bens71442

Well the red one looks to be alive and well- I'm much relieved to see.....glad the fire (supposedly) didn't damage much or if anything at all- on what is probably the two rarest Toronado's ever of the (3) built lol

wish the Museum in Lansing would get at least one of them- to sit next to the last 1978 Toronado built which is a Beige XS I was in Lansing recently but the museum was closed- however the last 1978 Toronado ever built is still alive and well- tucked with the confining space of the RE Olds Transportation Museum

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=29

Thank you Herbie for the New Years eve photos: on whats probably the rarest Toronado's ever built..... I'm proud to own my folks 78 Toronado Brougham.... and keep it in as best a possible shape as possible...but the Michigan climate is takeing its toll slowly on such a proud car....
http://s9.photobucket.com/user/Ben--...l?sort=3&o=300

Bens71442

so Herbie: This is the Silver 77 Toronado XSR when new?

1977_Oldsmobile_Toronado-XSR_rear3q_GMMA_zps106be65e.jpg

1977_Oldsmobile_Toronado-XSR_side_GMMA_zpsbd4a9894.jpg

Herbie

Yes, it sure is. Those photos came out from the GM history center only a few years ago after the silver car was found. These photos were taken during the summer of 1976. You will also find photos of the silver car in the October 1976 issue of both Car and Driver and Motor Trend. There are also a few photos of the red XSR taken during the summer of 1976 as well that nobody has seen yet. I do have them somewhere. I will find and post them when I can. I would like to point out something about the vinyl tops. If you notice the silver car's top trim runs straight along the body, while the red car's top trim dips down like all the production XS cars? See that? The red car had the same trim as the silver car, however, when it was being restored, the original trim was missing so XS trim was found and used when the car was restored. The photos I have from 1976 show the red car to have the exact same vinyl top trim as the silver car. Neat right? So, the top trim on the silver car is one of a kind. Every single XS car's trim dips down. The cars went down the line on the same day in June 1976. Their numbers are seven cars apart. Number 00048 for the silver car and 00055 for the red car. Note....All the cars were to be built as slicktop cars without a vinyl top. The only car built without a vinyl top was the yellow car. As you can see in the photos at that used car lot, it has chrome trim around the rear window unique to that one car. However, putting that window in place was impossible. It never fit right and leaked. It was refitted so many times and it was never right on center, so from then on, the rest of the XS cars, along with the other two XSRs had the vinyl top. It was needed not only to hold the rear window in place but to cover up the off set rear windows. Not one single Toronado XS has a rear window that is centered perfect. How about that?

MarkDavid

pics of that is so cool .

ent72olds

Absolutely incredible story! Thank you for sharing.....my father bought a '77 Brougham(sp), silver w/red velour new....that car got me started on Oldsmobile, and to this day, was the coolest car he's ever owned!