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I am planning to install a GM Delco AM/FM radio into my 77 Toronado. I was able to secure a radio from a 78 Toronado from John here on this forum.
When I got the car from my father he had replaced the factory radio many many years ago with an aftermarket unit with cassette tape. It works but does not look right and the fit is not the best.
The unit I got from John will restore the original factory look. Also I understand from a couple of local classic radio repair shops that I have spoken to that the unit can be upgraded to include AUX and USB ports and they can even add Bluetooth which I understand will hookup to my cell phone and give me the benefit of hands free calling. This is a key feature as here in Ontario it is illegal to use a cell phone while driving for calls or text unless it is hands free. The fines if caught are huge, like $250.
Before sending the unit off for the upgrade I would like to bench test the unit, but it does not have any wire connectors on it. The service manual does not tell me what the connectors should look like or any part number.
I am guessing that when the aftermarket radio was installed that they probably cut off the factory connectors and spliced in their own.
Does anyone have any idea on where I can source the proper connectors for this radio?
Maybe this will work. It doesn't say Oldsmobile, but a Delco radio is a Delco radio as long as it's the same type of radio (AM/FM stereo, four-speaker), and the back of the radio shown in the picture looks like the back of your radio.
There's a good chance that the factory radio uses an external amplifier that's underneath the passenger side of the dash. Both of my Dad's '76 and '77 Toronados had that set up with that radio, and so does my current '77. I'm not sure what the result on the original style radio will be if your's has been cut out or removed. John might still have the amplifier, too.
I have the wiring diagrams from the '77 service manual that explains the pin outs for radio system. Unfortunately, that's back in Florida and I'm in Colorado until this weekend. I'll upload some pics as soon as possible.
Good luck on the upgrade. I'm wanting to do the same for myself!!!
Jaunty, thank you for the links to the connectors. In my search of ebay I found one of the sets but not the one with the reference photo to the back of the radio. That is an exact match to what the back of my radio looks like so I will order that set of connectors.
77Toro it would be great if you could post the wiring diagram from your manual. My manual doesn't have one (it is well used and is missing some pages). I was not aware of an external amplifier under the dash on the passenger side. Are you sure it is an amplifier? On mine under the dash behind the glove box is the MISAR (engine timing) controller. Don't know how they would get an amp up under there with all the heater ducting.
The wiring harness from my parts car doesn't have any cut wires. So I hesitated to remove anything. But since your having trouble finding them maybe I can unplug parts of the harness. Here's two clips that came off the radio. Let me know what you think.
The wiring harness from my parts car doesn't have any cut wires. So I hesitated to remove anything. But since your having trouble finding them maybe I can unplug parts of the harness. Here's two clips that came off the radio. Let me know what you think.
OK, here's pictures of the white and the blue clips, you can see the wire colors on them as well. It looks like I missed getting photos of a third clip, but everything is still there on my parts car. Due to my elbow surgery I'm not 100% functional yet, but can watch for a break in the rain to get more photos if it would help.
John
Thank you for the photos. They really help big time. I found a set on Ebay through a link provided by Jaunty so I ordered them up and they should be here by the end of the month. The clips are an exact match to what you posted. The missing 3rd clip is black. So it looks like I am on the right track. No need for you to take any more photos. Take a rest and let your elbow heal. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
I'll post pics of one of these ancient artifacts later. Until then, here's a picture from the service parts book:
Unfortunately, I haven't made my way down to where the car (and it's service manual) reside yet. I'll post pics of the wiring harness stuff as soon as I can.
Oh, and I love the sticker on the back of the radio you have : "Two wires per speaker - use ungrounded speakers only". When I replaced the factory speakers in my Dad's '76, I was baffled by one of the leads from the speaker going directly to one of the mounting screws for the speaker - directly to ground. The very basic electrical knowledge in my 17 year old brain was completely confused.
Last edited by 77toronado; January 20th, 2019 at 02:54 PM.
77 Toro thanks for the post from the parts book. The listing says 77-78 E platform instrument panel but funny it does not show the MISAR controller but then again this is instrument panel and not engine control so I guess that makes sense.
I finally was able to get to my service manual with the wiring schematics, and was sorely disappointed. They do not show the back of the radio, and the pin outs for what goes where. The schematic gives the colors for the power, ground, and the power antenna, but nothing for the speakers, or where any of them land in the plug for the back of the radio.
This isn't the first time I've been surprised at missing information in that factory service manual. My apologies for assuming the data that should be there, would be there.
Guys, does this help at all? It's in the Instrument Panel section of the '78 Chassis Service Manual. I would think something similar would be in the '77 manual.
Note the inset at lower right. It doesn't say exactly which pins do what, but it indicates what the upper pins, middle pins, and lower pins do. I would think that with a few wires with alligator clips, a couple of speakers, and a 12V power supply, a little trial and error would indicate which pin does what.
I see four pins in the middle part where it says Front Speakers and four pins at the bottom for the Rear Speakers. I would assume a pair of pins for each speaker. I would assume the upper connector has four pins, one for power, one for the radio dial light, one for the power antenna, and one for ground
The actual electrical schematic for the Toro only shows the non-speaker connections to the radio. It shows four wires. A yellow wire for 12 volts power, a red wire for the power antenna, a black wire for "main instrument panel" ground, and a brown wire for the dial light.
Last edited by jaunty75; January 29th, 2019 at 08:56 PM.
Maybe check the color codes at the speaker. I was thinking some radio's had the pins identified with a stamping on the back of the radio. It may even be under the small plate with two bolts next to where the connectors plug in. I don't have one here to look at. If my memory is correct, the pin identification was stamped upside down. Power and such should be in the top connector. Speakers are the bottom two connectors. I was thinking also that the top connector is black, the blue and white ones are the other ones but forget order.
I've had GM radios in the past that did have the pin out stamped into the back of it, but apparently not that one.
Yeah, I was surprised that it didn't show the speakers in the schematic. It gave the pin outs for the engine management box. It gave the colors of the wires for the extra pair of transistors that is calls the convector. But no speaker details.
A local car stereo shop should have that plug or be able to order it for you, or try www.crutchfield.com. I know Metra still makes the plug as I got one a year or so ago when I put a factory Delco AM-FM-cassette in the Gray Ghost wagon, but I cannot offhand remember the Metra part number. I'm pretty sure the Metra plug has the same color-coding as the factory harness. Match the colors and everything should work.
I don't think Crutchfield would have it because they want you to install a NEW radio and use your car's existing speaker wiring.
But go directly to the Metra website, and I think you'll find what you need. But DON'T try to search under 1978 Oldsmobile because their drop-down menus don't have it. I searched on 1978 Chevy Impala, and look what turned up. I think this is just what Byron needs as it is the male plug that goes into the back of the radio. If you click on the "Applications" dropdown, it does show Oldsmobiles, but not 1978. But that's probably just an incorrect aspect of their parts recordkeeping as how often have we heard that a vendor has the wrong part listed for a particular application? Anyway, as I said, this sure looks like what Byron needs.
The only issue now is finding someone who sells it as you can't order directly from the Metra website. I would guess, as rocketraider suggests, that a car stereo shop could order it for you if they don't carry it in stock.
That is a fairly common plug. GM began using it on Chevy trucks early as 1973, and most all carlines by 1980. I had to get one when I put the 80s digital AM-FM-cassette in the 1976 Ninety Eight, and again when I put the factory unit back in the wagon.
The trouble with GM radios is they use a number of different plugs. As an example I don't think anyone sources the 71-78 Olds/Buick/Pontiac stereo radio plug, which is similar to, but just different enough from, the above plug not to work. That's when you have to start cutting harnesses or, as I did, adapt the newer radio's plug to the earlier car wiring using small blade terminals.
Last edited by rocketraider; January 31st, 2019 at 02:06 PM.
Hey everyone, thank you so much for all the help. I found and just received the wire connectors that I need. I ordered the units that were in the link provided by Jaunty as they looked to be the right unit. https://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-DELCO-3-...-/254073694622
Sure enough when they arrived they plugged right in just like they are supposed to. They even came with a sheet on wiring them up, which helps big time. These units are an exact match to the photos that John was kind enough to take for me.
Here are pictures of the connectors loose and then plugged into the back of the radio.
Jaunty thank you for the schematic from your service manual. My 77 manual does not have that! I even tried my Fisher Body Manual from my Caddy but there was nothing there of any help.
So now it is off to the local car wreckers to see if I can scrounge up a couple of 2 wire ungrounded speakers to carry on with my bench test. Really hope I don't have to pull them myself as working outside in -15C weather is not my idea of a fun time.
Byron, are you looking for the two small dash speakers or something for the rear package tray? I've got a pair of dash speakers and know right where they are. Would have to dig around to see if I have rear speakers. John
Great news. I could use a few of those connectors, after I figure out what cars I put an AM/FM radio in. Speakers might be something to research. As I recall, I bought aftermarket 8 ohm speakers many years ago. They need the two spades insulated from the speaker frame to get the speakers in phase. That wiring diagram is wonderful, could you make a pic of the wiring diagram only ? Thanks.
Byron, are you looking for the two small dash speakers or something for the rear package tray? I've got a pair of dash speakers and know right where they are. Would have to dig around to see if I have rear speakers. John
Hi John
Thank you for the offer, but I have speakers in the car and they all work and I am going to assume they are original equipment. I just need to come up with a one or two cheap speakers to bench test the radio. If I can't then I guess
I can just lay the radio on the floor of the car and do a temporary hook up to test it out. Have to wait for the car to come out of storage to do that. I am hoping to bench test in the comfort of my warm shop to pass away the winter and then knowing if it runs or not, I can then send it out to the service shop for the upgrades. Even if it is dead they can replace the innards and bring it back to life with various modern day upgrades like AUX, USB and Bluetooth.
But your pictures of the connectors were a huge help as I am betting that the shop that installed the aftermarket radio hacked off the originals and spliced in their own connectors. Now I at least have the proper connectors for this radio. I am also wondering if the repair shop can use my new connectors and attached ends that will mate up with whatever is on their now so I just have to plug it all together and not have to worry about splicing wires.
The talk of radio speakers got me to finally do something I've been meaning to for a while, and that's replace the speakers in my '78. They all work, but the front ones are a little crackly, and I thought that, after 40 years, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they've dried out a bit. Here's what I pulled out, front and rear. They're all 8 ohm. The fronts are 3.5 inch diameter and the rears are 6 x 9. Replacements are available everywhere. In trying to pull off the spade lug connectors, I managed to break off the ground-side pins on the smaller ones. But I'm not reusing them, so no big deal. Interestingly, the ground side of the larger ones was just connected to one of the speaker's mounting posts. So the rears, at least, use the chassis for the return connection.
Maybe check the color codes at the speaker. I was thinking some radio's had the pins identified with a stamping on the back of the radio. It may even be under the small plate with two bolts next to where the connectors plug in. I don't have one here to look at. If my memory is correct, the pin identification was stamped upside down. Power and such should be in the top connector. Speakers are the bottom two connectors. I was thinking also that the top connector is black, the blue and white ones are the other ones but forget order.
The order is apparently BLACK, WHITE and then BLUE. The connectors are keyed so they can only go in one way.
Great news. I could use a few of those connectors, after I figure out what cars I put an AM/FM radio in. Speakers might be something to research. As I recall, I bought aftermarket 8 ohm speakers many years ago. They need the two spades insulated from the speaker frame to get the speakers in phase. That wiring diagram is wonderful, could you make a pic of the wiring diagram only ? Thanks.
Don't have a pic of the wiring diagram but have the chart that came with the connectors if that is of any assistance to you. Here are pictures of the instruction sheet.
Sorry but I don't know why these photos upload sideways. They are the right way around when I take them and they are on my desktop. Got to figure out how to fix that one day.
[QUOTE=jaunty75;1152350]The talk of radio speakers got me to finally do something I've been meaning to for a while, and that's replace the speakers in my '78. They all work, but the front ones are a little crackly, and I thought that, after 40 years, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they've dried out a bit. Here's what I pulled out, front and rear. They're all 8 ohm. The fronts are 3.5 inch diameter and the rears are 6 x 9. Replacements are available everywhere. In trying to pull off the spade lug connectors, I managed to break off the ground-side pins on the smaller ones. But I'm not reusing them, so no big deal. Interestingly, the ground side of the larger ones was just connected to one of the speaker's mounting posts. So the rears, at least, use the chassis for the return connection.
Thanks Jaunty that helps to answer another question I was trying to track down. Whether I needed 4 or 8 ohm speakers. Looks like 8 ohm it is.
Thanks Jaunty that helps to answer another question I was trying to track down. Whether I needed 4 or 8 ohm speakers. Looks like 8 ohm it is.
I found that I was a bit optimistic on these being available "everywhere." Most speakers I've come across are 4-ohm. But I did find 8 ohm speakers in both the 3.5 inch and 6 x 9 inch sizes. Ordered them all from Amazon (of course)!
January 15th, 2019, 05:02 PM
