77 Toronado Back From Paint Shop
October 9th, 2018, 05:08 PM
#1
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Location: Brighton, Ontario
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77 Toronado Back From Paint Shop
Well it turned out to be a 2 month ordeal but my 77 Toronado was finally granted parole from the body shop. The results are I think worth the wait. I am very pleased with the job they did and she sure looks nice with her shiny new paint job.They even managed to patch and save my original rear bumper filler panels
Now I just have to sort out what to do with the body side molding and the pin striping, The right color pin stripe is just not available locally so will have to go shopping online. My efforts to date to salvage the existing body molding have not worked out very well with the big problem being the chrome edging is just flaking off. So will have to find some other after market moulding.
But before I get to that I have a major problem with the carb to resolve. Half way home from the body shop and for the second time the car just died on me. It starts with the car not engaging the choke so I have to hold the accelerator for a couple of minutes to get it to idle or it would just die. Then putting it in gear it would die again. Once I got by that it would run ok for 10-15 miles and then start chugging like it was fuel starved and if I stopped at light then it was game over. The engine would not idle and just quit. So my second ride home on a flat bed. So now I am in the process of having the card rebuilt and hopefully that will cure the problem. Will also be replacing all the vacuum hoses just in case on of them is cracked and I can't see it.
So here are some pictures of the old girl back from the body shop. May not run but sure looks great!
Now I just have to sort out what to do with the body side molding and the pin striping, The right color pin stripe is just not available locally so will have to go shopping online. My efforts to date to salvage the existing body molding have not worked out very well with the big problem being the chrome edging is just flaking off. So will have to find some other after market moulding.
But before I get to that I have a major problem with the carb to resolve. Half way home from the body shop and for the second time the car just died on me. It starts with the car not engaging the choke so I have to hold the accelerator for a couple of minutes to get it to idle or it would just die. Then putting it in gear it would die again. Once I got by that it would run ok for 10-15 miles and then start chugging like it was fuel starved and if I stopped at light then it was game over. The engine would not idle and just quit. So my second ride home on a flat bed. So now I am in the process of having the card rebuilt and hopefully that will cure the problem. Will also be replacing all the vacuum hoses just in case on of them is cracked and I can't see it.
So here are some pictures of the old girl back from the body shop. May not run but sure looks great!
October 9th, 2018, 06:11 PM
#2
CH3NO2 LEARN IT BURN IT
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Land of Taxes
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Nice paint! I remember seeing a blue one in the showroom next to a blue/white 442 and a blue 98, towards the end of the season...April ish. Spring color theme? Don't ask why some memories stick. Dad took a used but built 72 Duster 340 stick for a ride just cus he could as he knew the used car guy well. The whole family was stuffed into it. 5 of us. Child car seats...seat belts, nope...Wound up getting a 76 "S" Silver/Burgandy gut, 350. Traded in a 71 CS Saturn/Black/Black. Wished he hung on to that one.
October 10th, 2018, 03:32 PM
#5
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Location: southeastern Michigan
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They always are! The time you spent waiting for it to be finished is quickly forgotten as you now have the car to enjoy.
Regarding your running and idling problem, I had the EXACT SAME problem with my '78. I decided to rebuild the carb, and I discovered that, when I went to remove it from the engine, it was barely screwed down! Two of the four bolts were finger tight, and the other two were not even that! They were loose in their screw holes. I never noticed this, but then who routinely checks the tightness of the carb bolts when they change the oil or whatever? So there were huge vacuum leaks and all sorts of who knows what else going on as a result. The car DID run OK when I first got it, but over the course of several weeks, it gradually got worse, and I'm guessing those two loose bolts only got more loose over time. Rebuilding the carb, and fully tightening it down when reinstalled, made all the difference. I hope your problem is cured by the carb rebuild.
Regarding your running and idling problem, I had the EXACT SAME problem with my '78. I decided to rebuild the carb, and I discovered that, when I went to remove it from the engine, it was barely screwed down! Two of the four bolts were finger tight, and the other two were not even that! They were loose in their screw holes. I never noticed this, but then who routinely checks the tightness of the carb bolts when they change the oil or whatever? So there were huge vacuum leaks and all sorts of who knows what else going on as a result. The car DID run OK when I first got it, but over the course of several weeks, it gradually got worse, and I'm guessing those two loose bolts only got more loose over time. Rebuilding the carb, and fully tightening it down when reinstalled, made all the difference. I hope your problem is cured by the carb rebuild.
October 10th, 2018, 04:17 PM
#6
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Thanks guys for the nice comments on the paint job. I am really pleased with it and especially the fact that they managed to save and bring the original rear bumper filler panels back like new condition.
Jaunty, I had the very same issue with the carb as you did. Two of the bolts were only finger tight so I am guessing there had to be some air leakage and to my untrained eye I could not see any major signs of blow by but who knows. The other 2 bolts were only moderately tight. The car ran fine from the time I got it last year but it has only started acting up in the past few months, most of which it spent in the body shop.
I ruled out the fuel tank because earlier this summer I had problems with the fuel gauge not reading properly and I had a shop fix it for me. They claim or at least they charged me for dropping the tank and pulling the sender unit, fix a ground issue and testing the gauge itself for proper sweep. Since then it has worked fine. So I am assuming gunk in the tank is not the problem.
The next culprit on the list is the fuel pump. When I got the car it had the shorter Spectra pump as shown in Jaunty's earlier post and I was or am thinking it may not be pushing enough fuel. So a rebuilt and properly torqued carb hopefully will cure the problem. If not then I may have to go after the fuel pump. Should know in the next week or so.
Will update this post once the carb is installed.
Jaunty, I had the very same issue with the carb as you did. Two of the bolts were only finger tight so I am guessing there had to be some air leakage and to my untrained eye I could not see any major signs of blow by but who knows. The other 2 bolts were only moderately tight. The car ran fine from the time I got it last year but it has only started acting up in the past few months, most of which it spent in the body shop.
I ruled out the fuel tank because earlier this summer I had problems with the fuel gauge not reading properly and I had a shop fix it for me. They claim or at least they charged me for dropping the tank and pulling the sender unit, fix a ground issue and testing the gauge itself for proper sweep. Since then it has worked fine. So I am assuming gunk in the tank is not the problem.
The next culprit on the list is the fuel pump. When I got the car it had the shorter Spectra pump as shown in Jaunty's earlier post and I was or am thinking it may not be pushing enough fuel. So a rebuilt and properly torqued carb hopefully will cure the problem. If not then I may have to go after the fuel pump. Should know in the next week or so.
Will update this post once the carb is installed.
October 12th, 2018, 01:38 PM
#8
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Well the carb rebuild dd not correct the major problem. The rebuild did cure the problem with the choke and smoothed out the rough idle issues and in the process we tested and determined that the fuel pump is pumping fuel just fine even though it is the short version and is different than the original. My buddy who rebuilt the carb, installed the re built unit last night. Engine started better than it ever did before. Got it to fire the first try a number times so I would say he has it dialed in pretty good. Today I took the car out and ran it around the block a number of times to test things out. Did not want to go too far just in case. Good thing I took this precaution. After about 10 minutes the problems started. The car would not idle at the stop sign while in gear. The engine would simply idle down and die. So I assumed a little tweak in the idle speed would fix the problem but that did not help. Then on the second test run when pulling away from the stop sign the engine would - hesitate, sputter, miss, surge or however you want to call it - but basically no smooth power or acceleration. So now we are thinking maybe distributor and the vacuum advance.
Any of you engine guru's have any thoughts on this? Any tips, tricks or problems associated with pulling the distributor and rebuilding it? Any other experiences or thoughts on what the problem might be. Must say this issue is driving me crazy. The car ran fine when I got it last year and thru the early part of this summer. It performed superbly on the highway and around town with absolutely no hints of the pending problem. Even bringing it back from the storage facility this past spring where it sat all winter - with fuel stabilizer in the tank - it ran just fine. As I indicated in an earlier post, I have had the tank dropped and drained, the sender unit and the guage tested and there is relatively fresh fuel in the car, so I don't think it is fuel that is the problem. So other than the distributor/advance I am at loss as to what else it could be. After spending a pile of money on the paint job, I would really like to get this engine issue resolved so at least the car can driven and be reliable.
Appreciate any thoughts or advice you may have to offer.
Any of you engine guru's have any thoughts on this? Any tips, tricks or problems associated with pulling the distributor and rebuilding it? Any other experiences or thoughts on what the problem might be. Must say this issue is driving me crazy. The car ran fine when I got it last year and thru the early part of this summer. It performed superbly on the highway and around town with absolutely no hints of the pending problem. Even bringing it back from the storage facility this past spring where it sat all winter - with fuel stabilizer in the tank - it ran just fine. As I indicated in an earlier post, I have had the tank dropped and drained, the sender unit and the guage tested and there is relatively fresh fuel in the car, so I don't think it is fuel that is the problem. So other than the distributor/advance I am at loss as to what else it could be. After spending a pile of money on the paint job, I would really like to get this engine issue resolved so at least the car can driven and be reliable.
Appreciate any thoughts or advice you may have to offer.
October 12th, 2018, 01:57 PM
#9
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Location: southeastern Michigan
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Probably a dumb question, but with all the removing and replacing of the carb, have you ever checked or replaced the fuel filter? I had an acting-fuel-starved problem with my '67 Delta 88 some years ago shortly after I had dropped the fuel tank to clean it and replace the sending unit. It would be fine at low speed, but the car would act fuel-starved and miss at any sort of highway speed (say 40 mph or above). I pulled off the fuel filter, and, even though I had replaced it relatively recently, it was before I had done the work with the gas tank, and the filter was pretty dirty. Replacing it cured the problem, and I assumed the problem arose because of my work on the fuel system. Doing so stirred up dirt and crud in the line that made its way to the carb and was caught by the filter. I only bring this up because you mentioned that fuel tank work was done recently to your car.
I'm a little curious about rebuilding a distributor. I've never heard of that. I always thought you just replace the distributor cap and rotor when needed. What else is there to rebuild in an electronic ignition system? I know there's electronics in there, but that's the point. It's all electronic. No more points to open and close. Nothing to wear out.
Your problem still sounds to me like a fuel delivery issue.
I'm a little curious about rebuilding a distributor. I've never heard of that. I always thought you just replace the distributor cap and rotor when needed. What else is there to rebuild in an electronic ignition system? I know there's electronics in there, but that's the point. It's all electronic. No more points to open and close. Nothing to wear out.
Your problem still sounds to me like a fuel delivery issue.
October 12th, 2018, 05:05 PM
#10
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Jaunty
The fuel filter has been done twice. Once when the tank was fixed and again with this rebuild. We now think it is distributor related as the problem only starts up after the car had been driven for about 10 minutes. We popped off the distributor cap and noticed that little button thingy, which I think they call a resistor brush is in sad shape. The rotor also looked like it had been around since Noah was a boy. Finally the coil was hot and from what I can gather the coil should not be that hot. There is no vacuum advance it is all apparently controlled by the electronic module.
So it would appear that the next step is to replace 1. the module 2. the cap 3. the rotor 4. the coil 5. the resistor brush 6. the coil dust cover. Would like to get AC Delco but that will probably cost an arm and a leg and take forever to get. So we will see what I can find tomorrow. At this point even some inexpensive knock off will do if it cures the problem so I can drive the car to the storage facility. It will be cheaper than another flat bed tow and I can then wait for the Delco parts and do them next spring.
The fuel filter has been done twice. Once when the tank was fixed and again with this rebuild. We now think it is distributor related as the problem only starts up after the car had been driven for about 10 minutes. We popped off the distributor cap and noticed that little button thingy, which I think they call a resistor brush is in sad shape. The rotor also looked like it had been around since Noah was a boy. Finally the coil was hot and from what I can gather the coil should not be that hot. There is no vacuum advance it is all apparently controlled by the electronic module.
So it would appear that the next step is to replace 1. the module 2. the cap 3. the rotor 4. the coil 5. the resistor brush 6. the coil dust cover. Would like to get AC Delco but that will probably cost an arm and a leg and take forever to get. So we will see what I can find tomorrow. At this point even some inexpensive knock off will do if it cures the problem so I can drive the car to the storage facility. It will be cheaper than another flat bed tow and I can then wait for the Delco parts and do them next spring.
October 12th, 2018, 05:50 PM
#11
72 Olds CS
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,657
Byron
if you dont know rockauto delivers parts quick and allows you to choose from a variety of manufacturers.
there is also a 5% discount on this site search rockauto discount
just be aware if parts come from different warehouses it can add to shipping costs
if you dont know rockauto delivers parts quick and allows you to choose from a variety of manufacturers.
there is also a 5% discount on this site search rockauto discount
just be aware if parts come from different warehouses it can add to shipping costs
October 12th, 2018, 07:00 PM
#12
Hookers under Hood
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,543
Very nice paint job!
Not many body shops can lay down paint and clear these days. You found a good shop by the look of the smooth shine .
I'm up in Canada as well, as RetroRanger stated Rockauto is a good source for parts, along with Summit Racing . Shipping is all over the place depending where it comes from.
I buy all my parts from the U.S , sick of dealing with Canadian Tire and the local parts stores. I buy most of my parts from Summit , very good prices, shipping is reasonable and quick .
Eric
Not many body shops can lay down paint and clear these days. You found a good shop by the look of the smooth shine .
I'm up in Canada as well, as RetroRanger stated Rockauto is a good source for parts, along with Summit Racing . Shipping is all over the place depending where it comes from.
I buy all my parts from the U.S , sick of dealing with Canadian Tire and the local parts stores. I buy most of my parts from Summit , very good prices, shipping is reasonable and quick .
Eric
October 12th, 2018, 07:23 PM
#13
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Location: southeastern Michigan
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I wouldn't obsess about this. AC/Delco is just a brand now with parts made all over the world. Anything you buy with that brand name will likely be made in China. Checking out rockauto just now for the parts you mention for your car, several brands are shown for a rotor, including AC/Delco. The prices for the Delco parts are in the middle of the range. There's also Standard Motor Products, which I see often, and Airtex Wells, which happens to be the most expensive rotor they sell.
October 12th, 2018, 07:55 PM
#14
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Thanks gentlemen for the advice on sources for parts and the kind words on the paint job. Although I still like the apparent quality of Delco parts I have encountered up to now, I am not going to stress too much about it. I just need to get this car running. I am moving at the end of the month and have 2 cars I have to get into storage as I don't have garage space for them. So I can't really wait on deliveries from the US. I need parts like this weekend as I am running out time and moving day with all the required packing is closing in on me. I have found storage in the area I am moving to and would like to drive the car there as trucking it on a flat bed would cost a pile on money. Fingers crossed I can find the parts tomorrow and they are the answer to my problem.
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