Toro hubcap scam?
February 1st, 2010, 04:49 PM
#1
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Toro hubcap scam?
Just letting guys know about a possible scam in JWO for 67 Toro optional hubcaps. These are the heavy potmetal ribbed ones that are hard to find in good condition. I bought these last month from an ad and thought I was clear about what I was looking for. I will post my emails with this individual for reference but looking at this months ads, its still there and I hope to keep anyone else from sending this guy money in case he has several sets of worn and broken caps passing off as excellent. I'm hoping it's just an older gentleman with poor eyesight and bad vocabulary since it is in a club newsletter but the last email makes me think he needs money.
Just got back from a seminar and was unable to take pics yet but I guess you got me. I’ll still forward them to point out EXACTLY what scrapped up hubcaps look like. As per your description if you scroll down, you stated there were NO SCRAPES. I could see the messed up metal while still wrapped! How you could not see this I just can’t figure. These do not have a nit pick line maybe an inch long, they are GOUGED. It is possible to actually find 43 yr old hubcaps NOT gouged and scraped and them NOT be NOS, but as I said, I don’t expect these to be new as they are not new. But I would expect someone with car experience to be able to tell me about broken pot metal, dents along the outer rim, and massive curb rash. At your definition of EXCELLENT, I have to assume you think a car can be restored to like new by painting over rust. Can’t really see the rust, so it must not have rust! I wouldn’t say I’m angry but disappointed at a quite dishonest representation. Like I said, you got me and it sucks but I guess it takes all kinds in this hobby. BTW I just bought from Fusick an NOS 67 Toro cap for $85 so I thought $225 for EXCELLECT used and two others that could be presentable until I found others was about right. Now you tell me I wanted NEW caps? Reread down the previous correspondence and at NO TIME did I say these needed to be new. I did STRESS that banged up and scraped up caps of this nature were virtually impossible to fix and I have those but since you flat out said “nope, no scrapes here”, I took you for your word. Now you tell me to buckle down and pay for an attempt at fixing? Nice.
By the way, I spoke to the former owner of Wayne Oldsmobile in Newburgh NY, and he knew of two 67
wheelcovers that were still in and out of their box, basically new, and they were going for $1200. each (about 3 years ago), and he sold them for that price about a year ago.
This February 20th, I make my final 2007 Lincoln Navigator payment (at $767 x 36 months, that's $27,612 dollars, and with a $5500. down payment, that equals $33,112.00 in total payments-- I give the SUV back in mid-March with nothing to show for it.
I described them exactly as I sold them to you-- one in excellent shape, one close to excellent (or both), and two in very good condition. After 43 years of use, I don't know how you can expect to find them in better condition, but there certainly are places that can repair them close to new. (I paid $125. for a '67 Chilton's that was in tatters to a firm out in San Diego. There are no dents, maybe a few imperfections, and I've kept them boxed for nearly 24 years. (Al Sandy said it was worth only 5 bucks, and I had to keep it because this Italian Mafia like figurehead refused to give me anything back).
I paid an average of $65 to $85 dollars for these wheelcovers-- total $300. and everybody said I got a good deal because of the rarity.You're going to have to make this a prime project to bring them back to new because I'm not taking them back-- everything was on the up and up but again you wanted brand new wheelcovers from 1967, which I said is impossible. If you get to work on it at a specialty shop for wheelcovers, they can bring them back to new as close to possible, but you're just going to have to spend some money on them. You've already spend $75 less than I did 24 years ago, which is almost an additional $200. saved in today's money. Of course you're going to be angry but this restoration
is worth the cost of this occuring.
Got the package today. I have to go out of town the next few days but did get to see the caps. While they are 42 yrs old, we had discussed condition and upon inspecting, they all have varying degrees of curb rash all along the ribbing. Not the very center disk, but the cast slots ribbing. They were described as NO dents or scrapes. One has a rib cracked to where it could break off. Frankly I have no use for these as I don’t think with the heavy pits in the cast metal and scrapes they can be repaired. I’ll send these back and please deduct all costs incurred with sending these as I’m really needing covers that just need polishing and these I believe cannot be fixed. Pat
The 4 wheelcovers went out last Thursday morning January 21st as parcel post-- a large box weighing just under 30 lbs, and packed with old clothes to avoid friction or bumping (and I gave you 2 cassettes of old radio shows). They said it should take on the average 5 to 7 days to arrive.
By the way, are you guys going to the Nationals?
I believe the check has cleared, so I will find the appropriate box that I can use at the Post Office and mail the wheelcovers out Monday morning. Thanks, Jim
the price is as listed for the four wheelcovers (that are for a '67 Toronado only) is $225.
Yes, actually I have the chrome rims and had the center cap and trim rings restored after finding a dent free set. But will probably put them on a 70 Toro I have and use a spare set of rims for the big caps since I won’t need trim rings. Let me know a total and I’ll get a check out tomorrow. Thanks Pat McMillan 708 W Craft Robinson, IL 62454
Well thanks a lot. I like anyone with a sense of humor. You'll definately like these big heavy duty wheelcovers-- they certainly don't make them like this anymore, and it is near impossible to get a set of four-- I just collected a set because they were so tough looking and I love the early Toronados-- but as you get older, you can't keep everything forever and you never expect to make any money (do you have a 67 Toronado that you're going to put them on?).
Anyway, my address is:
Curb rash is usually when the wife pulls away from the bank teller or drive thru and scrapes the sides of the rims! LOL It generally makes them unrestorable in terms of polishing won’t take the marks out. I’ll take the set since they don’t have dents/ scrapes. I have a banged up set I put together but like I said, you can’t get the defects out on these pressed or cast buggers. Please send along an address and I’ll get a check out. Thanks Pat McMillan
Two of them are virtually new, with even the red paint on the Olds insignia in the middle of the wheelcover
still showing strongly. The other two are in very good condition (no dents or scrapes) but not as good as the first two
(i.e.-- the red paint is missing.) I paid an average of $75 a wheelcover over 20 years ago ($300) and these big heavy wheelcovers are now 42 years old, so I'm probably going to wind up keeping them because people want brand new wheelcovers from 42 years ago. I wish they existed. These are not caps, these wheelcovers weigh almost 15 lbs each. (I do have two brand new '78 Toronado wheelcovers never taken out of the box-- I bought them as spares). I don't know what curb rash is. I could perhaps take some pictures and mail them to you, as my scanner is not working properly, but that's only if you don't need brand new, never used wheelcovers.
Can you send a couple pictures of the caps? Any curb rash or dents? Thank you Pat McMillan
Just got back from a seminar and was unable to take pics yet but I guess you got me. I’ll still forward them to point out EXACTLY what scrapped up hubcaps look like. As per your description if you scroll down, you stated there were NO SCRAPES. I could see the messed up metal while still wrapped! How you could not see this I just can’t figure. These do not have a nit pick line maybe an inch long, they are GOUGED. It is possible to actually find 43 yr old hubcaps NOT gouged and scraped and them NOT be NOS, but as I said, I don’t expect these to be new as they are not new. But I would expect someone with car experience to be able to tell me about broken pot metal, dents along the outer rim, and massive curb rash. At your definition of EXCELLENT, I have to assume you think a car can be restored to like new by painting over rust. Can’t really see the rust, so it must not have rust! I wouldn’t say I’m angry but disappointed at a quite dishonest representation. Like I said, you got me and it sucks but I guess it takes all kinds in this hobby. BTW I just bought from Fusick an NOS 67 Toro cap for $85 so I thought $225 for EXCELLECT used and two others that could be presentable until I found others was about right. Now you tell me I wanted NEW caps? Reread down the previous correspondence and at NO TIME did I say these needed to be new. I did STRESS that banged up and scraped up caps of this nature were virtually impossible to fix and I have those but since you flat out said “nope, no scrapes here”, I took you for your word. Now you tell me to buckle down and pay for an attempt at fixing? Nice.
By the way, I spoke to the former owner of Wayne Oldsmobile in Newburgh NY, and he knew of two 67
wheelcovers that were still in and out of their box, basically new, and they were going for $1200. each (about 3 years ago), and he sold them for that price about a year ago.
This February 20th, I make my final 2007 Lincoln Navigator payment (at $767 x 36 months, that's $27,612 dollars, and with a $5500. down payment, that equals $33,112.00 in total payments-- I give the SUV back in mid-March with nothing to show for it.
I described them exactly as I sold them to you-- one in excellent shape, one close to excellent (or both), and two in very good condition. After 43 years of use, I don't know how you can expect to find them in better condition, but there certainly are places that can repair them close to new. (I paid $125. for a '67 Chilton's that was in tatters to a firm out in San Diego. There are no dents, maybe a few imperfections, and I've kept them boxed for nearly 24 years. (Al Sandy said it was worth only 5 bucks, and I had to keep it because this Italian Mafia like figurehead refused to give me anything back).
I paid an average of $65 to $85 dollars for these wheelcovers-- total $300. and everybody said I got a good deal because of the rarity.You're going to have to make this a prime project to bring them back to new because I'm not taking them back-- everything was on the up and up but again you wanted brand new wheelcovers from 1967, which I said is impossible. If you get to work on it at a specialty shop for wheelcovers, they can bring them back to new as close to possible, but you're just going to have to spend some money on them. You've already spend $75 less than I did 24 years ago, which is almost an additional $200. saved in today's money. Of course you're going to be angry but this restoration
is worth the cost of this occuring.
Got the package today. I have to go out of town the next few days but did get to see the caps. While they are 42 yrs old, we had discussed condition and upon inspecting, they all have varying degrees of curb rash all along the ribbing. Not the very center disk, but the cast slots ribbing. They were described as NO dents or scrapes. One has a rib cracked to where it could break off. Frankly I have no use for these as I don’t think with the heavy pits in the cast metal and scrapes they can be repaired. I’ll send these back and please deduct all costs incurred with sending these as I’m really needing covers that just need polishing and these I believe cannot be fixed. Pat
The 4 wheelcovers went out last Thursday morning January 21st as parcel post-- a large box weighing just under 30 lbs, and packed with old clothes to avoid friction or bumping (and I gave you 2 cassettes of old radio shows). They said it should take on the average 5 to 7 days to arrive.
By the way, are you guys going to the Nationals?
I believe the check has cleared, so I will find the appropriate box that I can use at the Post Office and mail the wheelcovers out Monday morning. Thanks, Jim
the price is as listed for the four wheelcovers (that are for a '67 Toronado only) is $225.
Yes, actually I have the chrome rims and had the center cap and trim rings restored after finding a dent free set. But will probably put them on a 70 Toro I have and use a spare set of rims for the big caps since I won’t need trim rings. Let me know a total and I’ll get a check out tomorrow. Thanks Pat McMillan 708 W Craft Robinson, IL 62454
Well thanks a lot. I like anyone with a sense of humor. You'll definately like these big heavy duty wheelcovers-- they certainly don't make them like this anymore, and it is near impossible to get a set of four-- I just collected a set because they were so tough looking and I love the early Toronados-- but as you get older, you can't keep everything forever and you never expect to make any money (do you have a 67 Toronado that you're going to put them on?).
Anyway, my address is:
Curb rash is usually when the wife pulls away from the bank teller or drive thru and scrapes the sides of the rims! LOL It generally makes them unrestorable in terms of polishing won’t take the marks out. I’ll take the set since they don’t have dents/ scrapes. I have a banged up set I put together but like I said, you can’t get the defects out on these pressed or cast buggers. Please send along an address and I’ll get a check out. Thanks Pat McMillan
Two of them are virtually new, with even the red paint on the Olds insignia in the middle of the wheelcover
still showing strongly. The other two are in very good condition (no dents or scrapes) but not as good as the first two
(i.e.-- the red paint is missing.) I paid an average of $75 a wheelcover over 20 years ago ($300) and these big heavy wheelcovers are now 42 years old, so I'm probably going to wind up keeping them because people want brand new wheelcovers from 42 years ago. I wish they existed. These are not caps, these wheelcovers weigh almost 15 lbs each. (I do have two brand new '78 Toronado wheelcovers never taken out of the box-- I bought them as spares). I don't know what curb rash is. I could perhaps take some pictures and mail them to you, as my scanner is not working properly, but that's only if you don't need brand new, never used wheelcovers.
Can you send a couple pictures of the caps? Any curb rash or dents? Thank you Pat McMillan
February 1st, 2010, 06:07 PM
#2
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
A couple pictures of these "excellent" caps would be interesting to see.
I was had like this a couple years ago getting a plastic center cap for the Caddy off evil bay for 30 bucks - the picture showed it as mint condition. The one I got looked as if it was found int he middle of a busy highway - gouged to heck.
I gave him a big - and of course I got one in childish retaliation. One of the reasons I quit going there.
No luck with that but I did find a mint cap at my favorite junk yard for 2.99 last year!
I was had like this a couple years ago getting a plastic center cap for the Caddy off evil bay for 30 bucks - the picture showed it as mint condition. The one I got looked as if it was found int he middle of a busy highway - gouged to heck.
I gave him a big - and of course I got one in childish retaliation. One of the reasons I quit going there.
No luck with that but I did find a mint cap at my favorite junk yard for 2.99 last year!
February 1st, 2010, 06:57 PM
#4
Wow, but seen this before and a lot of people just plain out lie about things. I dont think its a scam just that the ad wasnt pulled. The fact it was in the JWO is meaningless as it was an ad that could have been anywhere. One time I responded to an ad for a 66 Delta conv that was rust free. Drove 3.5 hours to see the car. When I arrived the seller showed me a barn full of high dollar antique cars. He then led me to a barn where the 88 was. There was rot thru on the body and the frame had been badly repaired with angle iron. I pressed him to answer why he stated that the car was rust free. He replied that he really did not look it over that well......WTF!
February 1st, 2010, 07:10 PM
#5
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
This should help ya!
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-pictures.html
Geez......... Some people just do not know how to help potential buyers... 
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-pictures.html
February 1st, 2010, 09:08 PM
#7
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Muskegon, Mi.
Posts: 8,864
Wow, but seen this before and a lot of people just plain out lie about things. I dont think its a scam just that the ad wasnt pulled. The fact it was in the JWO is meaningless as it was an ad that could have been anywhere. One time I responded to an ad for a 66 Delta conv that was rust free. Drove 3.5 hours to see the car. When I arrived the seller showed me a barn full of high dollar antique cars. He then led me to a barn where the 88 was. There was rot thru on the body and the frame had been badly repaired with angle iron. I pressed him to answer why he stated that the car was rust free. He replied that he really did not look it over that well......WTF!
February 2nd, 2010, 05:12 AM
#8
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
You may email them to me and I can post. ry_ry75081 AT yahoo.
February 2nd, 2010, 05:43 AM
#9
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,623
Pretty much tells me you really need the money and went out to screw someone. So out of 43 yrs these were not used for 24, which means you could see they were beat up when YOU got them. Just because a part can be tough to find does not mean a part in ANY condition is virtually new. It’s nice to know a real VETERAN will happily pass along any bad deals he’s made! I’m glad you are happy you were able to foist these on another hobbiest! Congradulations, mission accomplished.
From: Jimmy Allen [mailto:jimmyallen@citlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 1:45 AM
To: Pat & Stacie McMillan
Subject: Re: 67 Toro
Yeah, I know you're gonna wind up hating my guts but I've lost thousands of dollars
as a rookie in this business and the publications (like Hemmings) don't back you up.
I kept them for 24 years just as a show piece and rare items to talk about. Now it's somebody
else's turn to carry the burden. My wife and I will only tell the postman to "Return to Sender".
From: Jimmy Allen [mailto:jimmyallen@citlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 1:45 AM
To: Pat & Stacie McMillan
Subject: Re: 67 Toro
Yeah, I know you're gonna wind up hating my guts but I've lost thousands of dollars
as a rookie in this business and the publications (like Hemmings) don't back you up.
I kept them for 24 years just as a show piece and rare items to talk about. Now it's somebody
else's turn to carry the burden. My wife and I will only tell the postman to "Return to Sender".
February 2nd, 2010, 05:55 AM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
Now to those of you that still like to see high values to our Oldsmobiles, this is some of the fallout that comes with high values. Still think that's a good thing?
February 2nd, 2010, 06:21 AM
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
Do not return them. The loser may just keep them to sell to another victim.
You could file for mail fraud, as the emails clearly show. However, not sure if that would even help.
Sorry to hear about your loss...
You could file for mail fraud, as the emails clearly show. However, not sure if that would even help.
Sorry to hear about your loss...
February 2nd, 2010, 06:28 AM
#13
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Location: Plano, TX
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Here are some pictures - who can guess what is what? More on the next post...
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:28 PM
To: 'Jimmy Allen'
Probably just wasting my time, but which one of these is virtually new and
which excellent? It gets hard to pick between the curved potmetal parts of
the caps shaved down from dragging against the curb which BTW are not
repairable, to the nonexistent dents on both the outer ring and now that
I've got to look over closer, on the inner disks of 2 of the 4. I'll assume
the very good cap is the one with the pot metal CRACKED through. Why you may
ask is it important to have been clear on the ribs condition? Because a
scrape itself is hard to fix on potmetal but having to rebuild whole
contours of metal removed when dragged across concrete is virtually
impossible. And I know this because caps similar to this that I have taken
to get estimates for were laughed at. So I thought my messages asking about
these very specific areas was very clear, my fault. I'll get estimates on
these to be certain, but my guess is to repair these will easily get to the
300 to 500 each if even possible. Again, that's why I needed NON GOUGED caps
so the rechrome bill to restore excellent caps would have been closer to 150
for the ribs. You can't rechrome over metal that is not there is the point.
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:28 PM
To: 'Jimmy Allen'
Probably just wasting my time, but which one of these is virtually new and
which excellent? It gets hard to pick between the curved potmetal parts of
the caps shaved down from dragging against the curb which BTW are not
repairable, to the nonexistent dents on both the outer ring and now that
I've got to look over closer, on the inner disks of 2 of the 4. I'll assume
the very good cap is the one with the pot metal CRACKED through. Why you may
ask is it important to have been clear on the ribs condition? Because a
scrape itself is hard to fix on potmetal but having to rebuild whole
contours of metal removed when dragged across concrete is virtually
impossible. And I know this because caps similar to this that I have taken
to get estimates for were laughed at. So I thought my messages asking about
these very specific areas was very clear, my fault. I'll get estimates on
these to be certain, but my guess is to repair these will easily get to the
300 to 500 each if even possible. Again, that's why I needed NON GOUGED caps
so the rechrome bill to restore excellent caps would have been closer to 150
for the ribs. You can't rechrome over metal that is not there is the point.
February 2nd, 2010, 06:29 AM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
More pics.
Look like good daily driver covers, not excellent like he described.
However, the worst one looks cherry in comparison to my supposibly "excellent" Caddy center cap I got off evil bay...
Look like good daily driver covers, not excellent like he described.
However, the worst one looks cherry in comparison to my supposibly "excellent" Caddy center cap I got off evil bay...
February 2nd, 2010, 06:11 PM
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Posts: 2,623
Thanks Rob for posting for me. I truely hope this ahole is not an OCA member as his last email to me, at least how I read it is, yep I got a sucker for these so **** off. I think I'll forward this info to Pat Yancey. I know its always buyer beware, but if this jerk isn't a member, I think it's not unreasonable to make sure he can't place ads for other guys to get bit. I don't sense anything close to his feeling its a misunderstanding on both our parts, he flat out feels like he found an amateur so so what. Now I have to assume the worst from possible club members. That's too bad.
February 2nd, 2010, 06:18 PM
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
Thanks Rob for posting for me. I truely hope this ahole is not an OCA member as his last email to me, at least how I read it is, yep I got a sucker for these so **** off. I think I'll forward this info to Pat Yancey. I know its always buyer beware, but if this jerk isn't a member, I think it's not unreasonable to make sure he can't place ads for other guys to get bit. I don't sense anything close to his feeling its a misunderstanding on both our parts, he flat out feels like he found an amateur so so what. Now I have to assume the worst from possible club members. That's too bad.
Do remember, membership is open to even lowlifes.
February 2nd, 2010, 06:46 PM
#18
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I did pass on my thoughts on the matter to Pat. I really hope the guy isn't in the OCA. You don't have to be a member to place an ad, it just costs money or I should say more money than a member. Members are free up to so many words per issue and then get a nominal fee if they want to right a novel for an ad. Nonmembers pay for the entire ad.
February 2nd, 2010, 06:48 PM
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This is my note to Pat...
Hi Pat. I’m dropping you a line as to a problem I had with someone who placed an ad in JWO. In a nutshell I got burned for a couple hundred dollars. I know there are dishonest folks everywhere and bottom line is buyer beware, but I posted the exchanges with this guy on Classicoldsmobile.com in the Toro section so nobody else gets bit. What I am asking you to consider bringing up to the board during the meet in MA is whether or not nonmembers should be allowed to post ads. I don’t know if this Jimmy Allen in NY is a member or not, and realize even club members can be aholes to other members. But if this guy is not a member, and revenues brought in from nonmembers is negligible, maybe keeping these people out of club ads is a better way to go. I know it could have been an ebay ad or any number of sites for car parts, but I dropped my guard as I tend to think club members are basically on the up and up, and if a problem arises, tend to try and work things out to an agreeable solution. My feelings are the guy went into this with the intent to cheat someone and if in fact this guy is not a member, should not be allowed to post for other hobbiests. I realize a club member could always post something for a “friend”, but I still concede guys in this club really try to help each other out and if they know a guy is questionable, probably wouldn’t help this type of person. I’ve been an OCA member over half my life now so I guess it was inevitable I could come across a scammer. Just think maybe considering this will possibly help another guy down the road. Just my two cents. Sincerely, Pat McMillan #019644
Hi Pat. I’m dropping you a line as to a problem I had with someone who placed an ad in JWO. In a nutshell I got burned for a couple hundred dollars. I know there are dishonest folks everywhere and bottom line is buyer beware, but I posted the exchanges with this guy on Classicoldsmobile.com in the Toro section so nobody else gets bit. What I am asking you to consider bringing up to the board during the meet in MA is whether or not nonmembers should be allowed to post ads. I don’t know if this Jimmy Allen in NY is a member or not, and realize even club members can be aholes to other members. But if this guy is not a member, and revenues brought in from nonmembers is negligible, maybe keeping these people out of club ads is a better way to go. I know it could have been an ebay ad or any number of sites for car parts, but I dropped my guard as I tend to think club members are basically on the up and up, and if a problem arises, tend to try and work things out to an agreeable solution. My feelings are the guy went into this with the intent to cheat someone and if in fact this guy is not a member, should not be allowed to post for other hobbiests. I realize a club member could always post something for a “friend”, but I still concede guys in this club really try to help each other out and if they know a guy is questionable, probably wouldn’t help this type of person. I’ve been an OCA member over half my life now so I guess it was inevitable I could come across a scammer. Just think maybe considering this will possibly help another guy down the road. Just my two cents. Sincerely, Pat McMillan #019644
February 3rd, 2010, 06:24 AM
#20
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This keeps getting better!
I’m still not sure why the cost of your daily driver is justification for misrepresenting hubcaps that I could not have asked more clearly on condition. I SPECIFICALLY ASKED, is there damage to these caps such as dents or curb rash that will make these unusable for my application. I TOLD you I needed damage free rims period. Not NOS out of the box, not light scratches, but DAMAGE FREE. All you had to do is simply LOOK at them. Not apparently go from memory of how they may have looked 24 yrs ago which if they were never used by you, were acquired damaged to begin with. 42 yrs old rims even not used for 24 yrs I thought could still have a few pits and maybe some LIGHT scratches but a simple polish and MINOR prep for rechroming would have made me a very nice set. Clear definitions ie caps damaged by clipping concrete curbs, which you seemed to understand, was expressly asked! You REPLIED NO DENTS, false. NO SCRAPES, false period! Jimmy, the rounded ends on almost every rib on 3 of the 4 caps are GONE, FLAT from scraping against concrete. You cannot rechrome this for a finished cap, period! I know this because I too am a veteran on restoring cars. Unfortunately I am not a veteran at sniffing out a scammer in a club dedicated to Oldsmobile. Jimmy, a blind man could feel the defects when packaging these. Unless your wife put these in a box and sent them, you HAD to take them off the wall, wrap them, and ship them. An honest person who maybe had not seen the caps close up in yrs would have thought, ahh maybe I should drop this guy a line to let him know they really are not EXCELLENT now that I actually LOOK at them. You may think they could look excellent on a beater but I could have saved the money. Or at the very least I could have weighed the option of taking a chance with buying these knowing guys have wide definitions of mild damage. Crips, no dents is NO DENTS. No scrapped up metal is NO SCRAPPED UP METAL. How hard is that?
From: Jimmy Allen [mailto:jimmyallen@citlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:58 AM
To: Pat & Stacie McMillan
Subject: Re: 67 Toro
Listen, you only paid $50 a wheelcover (the other $25 went for postage)-- I never bought them
(I bought them one at a time, I might add, over the period of a year) to put them on a '67 Toronado.
I bought them because they were a thing of beauty, unique, and never to be duplicated again. These are the most heavy duty wheel covers Olds ever made, and for that matter, perhaps any other car company in that time period. My Navigator has to undergo a "return inspection" and even though every thing is virtually immaculate, they will still charge me a couple thousand of dollars because the 20 inch chrome wheels have a few imperfections and "bubbles" in the chrome, and I've already had to buy Michelin Pilot SUV replacement tires for $1400. because all the tires do not have tread that are greater than a quarter inch in every area. The residual price is $29,795 which no one has the money for, it's a beautiful vehicle with its White Chocolate color but even my brother can't get the financing for unless he can put down $8 to $10,000. Those wheelcovers remained pinned up in my basement
for those 24 years. I thought I would die first before I ever got rid of them.
----- Original Message -----
I’m still not sure why the cost of your daily driver is justification for misrepresenting hubcaps that I could not have asked more clearly on condition. I SPECIFICALLY ASKED, is there damage to these caps such as dents or curb rash that will make these unusable for my application. I TOLD you I needed damage free rims period. Not NOS out of the box, not light scratches, but DAMAGE FREE. All you had to do is simply LOOK at them. Not apparently go from memory of how they may have looked 24 yrs ago which if they were never used by you, were acquired damaged to begin with. 42 yrs old rims even not used for 24 yrs I thought could still have a few pits and maybe some LIGHT scratches but a simple polish and MINOR prep for rechroming would have made me a very nice set. Clear definitions ie caps damaged by clipping concrete curbs, which you seemed to understand, was expressly asked! You REPLIED NO DENTS, false. NO SCRAPES, false period! Jimmy, the rounded ends on almost every rib on 3 of the 4 caps are GONE, FLAT from scraping against concrete. You cannot rechrome this for a finished cap, period! I know this because I too am a veteran on restoring cars. Unfortunately I am not a veteran at sniffing out a scammer in a club dedicated to Oldsmobile. Jimmy, a blind man could feel the defects when packaging these. Unless your wife put these in a box and sent them, you HAD to take them off the wall, wrap them, and ship them. An honest person who maybe had not seen the caps close up in yrs would have thought, ahh maybe I should drop this guy a line to let him know they really are not EXCELLENT now that I actually LOOK at them. You may think they could look excellent on a beater but I could have saved the money. Or at the very least I could have weighed the option of taking a chance with buying these knowing guys have wide definitions of mild damage. Crips, no dents is NO DENTS. No scrapped up metal is NO SCRAPPED UP METAL. How hard is that?
From: Jimmy Allen [mailto:jimmyallen@citlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:58 AM
To: Pat & Stacie McMillan
Subject: Re: 67 Toro
Listen, you only paid $50 a wheelcover (the other $25 went for postage)-- I never bought them
(I bought them one at a time, I might add, over the period of a year) to put them on a '67 Toronado.
I bought them because they were a thing of beauty, unique, and never to be duplicated again. These are the most heavy duty wheel covers Olds ever made, and for that matter, perhaps any other car company in that time period. My Navigator has to undergo a "return inspection" and even though every thing is virtually immaculate, they will still charge me a couple thousand of dollars because the 20 inch chrome wheels have a few imperfections and "bubbles" in the chrome, and I've already had to buy Michelin Pilot SUV replacement tires for $1400. because all the tires do not have tread that are greater than a quarter inch in every area. The residual price is $29,795 which no one has the money for, it's a beautiful vehicle with its White Chocolate color but even my brother can't get the financing for unless he can put down $8 to $10,000. Those wheelcovers remained pinned up in my basement
for those 24 years. I thought I would die first before I ever got rid of them.
----- Original Message -----
February 3rd, 2010, 09:39 AM
#24
Lt. Buzzkill (ret.)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 1,297
Yeah, clearly those covers are decent driver quality at best. They look like "20 footers" to me. No one who has the least experience with used parts would have told you they were "damage free" as you specifically asked.
I once owned a '67 Toro Deluxe with those covers and had to find a replacement for one that had been curbed by a prior owner. It was incredibly common because the centers extend out past the rim. I did finally find one at Carlisle, but that was over 20 yrs ago. Most of the loose ones found anywhere will be like those pics.
I once owned a '67 Toro Deluxe with those covers and had to find a replacement for one that had been curbed by a prior owner. It was incredibly common because the centers extend out past the rim. I did finally find one at Carlisle, but that was over 20 yrs ago. Most of the loose ones found anywhere will be like those pics.
February 3rd, 2010, 05:04 PM
#25
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,623
Exactly right on most of these being curbed. That's why I was very specific on my questions. I did keep the other guys name out Glen on the first posting on the off chance when he got the pics forwarded to him, a light might have gone off. But as I keep getting stranger emails with zero relavance I know the guy isn't going to do the right thing. Heck, I even kept from calling him a no good SOB!
February 3rd, 2010, 05:59 PM
#27
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 4,430
x2 
The guy figures he got ripped off by leasing a Navigator and having to turn it back in in the same condition he got it. He had to spend money to bring it up to shape so no problem ripping you off.
It's sort of a weird "Pay it forward" deal?
This guy isn't all there, and if he is he's playing games.
Whatever happened to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
This guy goes by the Benny Hill golden rule, "Do unto others then run".
You could build out those fins and fill those breaks with a propane torch and low temp pot metal filler rod and then grind and sand to shape.
Super Alloy 1 is one type of that rod, need flux too.
Have to be real careful with temperature on pot metal.
That ain't the point though is it?
The guy figures he got ripped off by leasing a Navigator and having to turn it back in in the same condition he got it. He had to spend money to bring it up to shape so no problem ripping you off.
It's sort of a weird "Pay it forward" deal?
This guy isn't all there, and if he is he's playing games.
Whatever happened to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
This guy goes by the Benny Hill golden rule, "Do unto others then run".
You could build out those fins and fill those breaks with a propane torch and low temp pot metal filler rod and then grind and sand to shape.
Super Alloy 1 is one type of that rod, need flux too.
Have to be real careful with temperature on pot metal.
That ain't the point though is it?
May 11th, 2010, 04:44 PM
#31
"me somebody" site member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,612
Here's a purportedly near perfect set of 5...pricey ($800 opening bid)!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-...Q5fAccessories
May 12th, 2010, 08:48 PM
#32
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,623
Are you insane in the membrane? Heck that's opening bid and not even the reserve. Kinda proves my point about trying to restore these! Mostly impossible as he states they still have some flaws. And if $800 isn't covering his costs, god knows what he's got in em so far. Thanks Jim!
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