I lost my antifreeze on the highway!
September 16th, 2012, 06:45 PM
#1
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I lost my antifreeze on the highway!
Well, I figured it would have to happen at some point. I went on a nice Sunday afternoon drive and thought I'd stop and get a carwash. I bought the wash and when I went to drive to the lane the engine was really sluggish and I had to have my foot deep in the gas to keep it running.
I turned her off, lifted the hood and stood a while figuring it was too hot.
A guy on his flooded motorcycle came over and we had a great conversation about the first generation Toronado. His family had a 66, a 67, a 68, a 70 and his dad (elderly) just bought another 66 in Autumn Bronze (my color too!) This guy seemed to know what he was talking about.
I left the gas station and made it about a mile before she came to a stop. I lifted the hood and saw some smoke coming from the passenger side of the engine bay. Before long some sputtering from the radiator hoses and most of the antifreeze dropped on the highway.
It was a bad day.
The tow driver was a great guy and knew his stuff about the 66 as well as telling me great stories about getting knocked off the haywagon by his dad's new automatic bale thrower! He says he blames his lot in life on the bale thrower which caught him in the head several times!
I hope this is a simple fix but I'll find out tomorrow. Anyone want to venture a guess as to what may have happened? It has a new water pump. Other than needing a lot of pedal to keep going down the highway it just seemed to be loosing power.
It felt really boggy even with being in neutral. I hope she's not broken to bad.
Here's to hoping all of you had a better Sunday!
Jeff in Minnesota
I turned her off, lifted the hood and stood a while figuring it was too hot.
A guy on his flooded motorcycle came over and we had a great conversation about the first generation Toronado. His family had a 66, a 67, a 68, a 70 and his dad (elderly) just bought another 66 in Autumn Bronze (my color too!) This guy seemed to know what he was talking about.
I left the gas station and made it about a mile before she came to a stop. I lifted the hood and saw some smoke coming from the passenger side of the engine bay. Before long some sputtering from the radiator hoses and most of the antifreeze dropped on the highway.
It was a bad day.
The tow driver was a great guy and knew his stuff about the 66 as well as telling me great stories about getting knocked off the haywagon by his dad's new automatic bale thrower! He says he blames his lot in life on the bale thrower which caught him in the head several times!
I hope this is a simple fix but I'll find out tomorrow. Anyone want to venture a guess as to what may have happened? It has a new water pump. Other than needing a lot of pedal to keep going down the highway it just seemed to be loosing power.
It felt really boggy even with being in neutral. I hope she's not broken to bad.
Here's to hoping all of you had a better Sunday!
Jeff in Minnesota
September 16th, 2012, 07:02 PM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Did the HOT light come on?
Lost coolant = bad hose, bad radiator, bad water pump. Bad gasket (like thermostat housing or intake) is less likely, but possible.
What did you see when you looked at it?
- Eric
Lost coolant = bad hose, bad radiator, bad water pump. Bad gasket (like thermostat housing or intake) is less likely, but possible.
What did you see when you looked at it?
- Eric
September 16th, 2012, 07:33 PM
#3
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Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
So it was running poorly, you pulled over, THEN it dumped its coolant?
Let us know where the coolant was coming from.
A blown hose would be easy to find. If it blew from the radiator overflow tube, then an engine malfunction could have caused it to overheat and the cap vented to relieve the pressure.
Tell us more!
Let us know where the coolant was coming from.
A blown hose would be easy to find. If it blew from the radiator overflow tube, then an engine malfunction could have caused it to overheat and the cap vented to relieve the pressure.
Tell us more!
September 17th, 2012, 06:04 AM
#5
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I will admit that I'm confused.
- Eric
September 17th, 2012, 09:16 AM
#7
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Posts: 2,703
I agree the story is a little confusing...but having just gone through a head gasket problem myself, I am leaning towards that as causing both the overheating problem and the poor running condition.
However, only he knows so we'll have to wait to find out.
However, only he knows so we'll have to wait to find out.
September 17th, 2012, 12:03 PM
#9
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Posts: 83
Sorry for the confusion. The car was hard to start and ran really sluggish after I had it turned off for about 5 minutes. The engine high temp light never came on. The engine seemed to choke itself when I stopped at a stop light. With the hood up and facing the engine is was smoking from behind the AC condenser. After about 5 minutes of being off the coolant hose down on the passenger side began so spit and the hot water was splashing me so I didn't look much longer.
I got a call from the garage...said my timing chain jumped and I was way off my timing. Carb was dumping HUGE amounts of fuel into the cylinders and it overheated from too much gas??? Possible??? They said they got it running only after rotating the cap and then the timing numbers were "way off". They haven't gotten the timing cover off yet but I'll let you know if this really is the case.
Jeff
I got a call from the garage...said my timing chain jumped and I was way off my timing. Carb was dumping HUGE amounts of fuel into the cylinders and it overheated from too much gas??? Possible??? They said they got it running only after rotating the cap and then the timing numbers were "way off". They haven't gotten the timing cover off yet but I'll let you know if this really is the case.
Jeff
September 17th, 2012, 12:09 PM
#10
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Location: Germany
Posts: 493
if the timing is way off you have temp. issues..thats right..but i don't think its because you get too much gas then.
glad to hear its "only" a jumped timing chain...could have been worse
glad to hear its "only" a jumped timing chain...could have been worse
Last edited by EightballZ; September 17th, 2012 at 12:28 PM.
September 17th, 2012, 01:52 PM
#12
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Location: Plano, TX
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This makes sense then. Get the timing set replaced, then think about changing all the coolant hoses, as none should have burst, unless the radiator cap was incorrect or not relieving the pressure.
Always use top quality hoses, too. I had a cheapo one blow out when I got home when it was 2 years old and at 190*.
Always use top quality hoses, too. I had a cheapo one blow out when I got home when it was 2 years old and at 190*.
September 17th, 2012, 03:27 PM
#13
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I have to ask you all a question now...
The shop called and said there was a plastic gear or part of a gear that disintegrated. There are parts in the oil pan. I said "they could be in a worst spot huh?" The answer: "well the tranny has to be dropped to get the oil pan off to clean it out."
Is this true? I know the pan is unique and holds an extra quart of oil. I also seem to remember one of the half shafts goes through the pan. But does it really require the entire tranny to be dropped to get the pan off?
Also what is a plastic gear doing on a timing set? Seems kind of cheapo if you ask me.
Thank you for your advice and information.
Jeff
The shop called and said there was a plastic gear or part of a gear that disintegrated. There are parts in the oil pan. I said "they could be in a worst spot huh?" The answer: "well the tranny has to be dropped to get the oil pan off to clean it out."
Is this true? I know the pan is unique and holds an extra quart of oil. I also seem to remember one of the half shafts goes through the pan. But does it really require the entire tranny to be dropped to get the pan off?
Also what is a plastic gear doing on a timing set? Seems kind of cheapo if you ask me.
Thank you for your advice and information.
Jeff
September 17th, 2012, 03:38 PM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 390
I have to ask you all a question now...
The shop called and said there was a plastic gear or part of a gear that disintegrated. There are parts in the oil pan. I said "they could be in a worst spot huh?" The answer: "well the tranny has to be dropped to get the oil pan off to clean it out."
Is this true? I know the pan is unique and holds an extra quart of oil. I also seem to remember one of the half shafts goes through the pan. But does it really require the entire tranny to be dropped to get the pan off?
Also what is a plastic gear doing on a timing set? Seems kind of cheapo if you ask me.
Thank you for your advice and information.
Jeff
The shop called and said there was a plastic gear or part of a gear that disintegrated. There are parts in the oil pan. I said "they could be in a worst spot huh?" The answer: "well the tranny has to be dropped to get the oil pan off to clean it out."
Is this true? I know the pan is unique and holds an extra quart of oil. I also seem to remember one of the half shafts goes through the pan. But does it really require the entire tranny to be dropped to get the pan off?
Also what is a plastic gear doing on a timing set? Seems kind of cheapo if you ask me.
Thank you for your advice and information.
Jeff
Oldsmobile used a nylon timing cam gear from the factory to reduce the noise of the chain...your mechanic found what used to be the teeth in the oil pan and pickup!
Make sure he cleans the oil pump pickup as well! found a handful of plastic pieces in there when I dropped my oil pan..
September 17th, 2012, 04:32 PM
#15
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Location: Plano, TX
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The '72 CSM says to remove the engine assy to remove the pan, so it is probably safe to say it does need to be removed from the tranny. I do not think the 72 is that much different than yours for the oil pan removal.
Sorry about the misfortune, but it could have always been worse....
Sorry about the misfortune, but it could have always been worse....
September 18th, 2012, 04:14 AM
#16
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Posts: 83
Ee Gads!
I feel my wallet getting thinner and thinner!
I did some searching and found the same information that the engine has to be dropped to get the oil pan off. Ouch!
Another question then about preventive maintenance.
If/when the engine is dropped and is sitting on the stand is there something or things that I should do to the engine while it out of the car? If it is otherwise running do I even want to think about having it rebuilt? It looks like its never been apart but are there things that should be done that should be done now because it'd be less expensive?
The tranny was rebuilt 3 years ago. I suppose if they have to disassemble the steering linkages (maybe) I could have the bushings replaced.
Let me know your thoughts...
Jeff
I feel my wallet getting thinner and thinner!
I did some searching and found the same information that the engine has to be dropped to get the oil pan off. Ouch!
Another question then about preventive maintenance.
If/when the engine is dropped and is sitting on the stand is there something or things that I should do to the engine while it out of the car? If it is otherwise running do I even want to think about having it rebuilt? It looks like its never been apart but are there things that should be done that should be done now because it'd be less expensive?
The tranny was rebuilt 3 years ago. I suppose if they have to disassemble the steering linkages (maybe) I could have the bushings replaced.
Let me know your thoughts...
Jeff
September 19th, 2012, 07:09 AM
#19
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Location: Shorewood, Il.
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A Cloyes true roller will last almost forever.
Since the water pump has to come off anyway - paint and replace it!
Belts, hoses and clamps are up to you - make sure the spring in the lower hose is switched to the new, as very few come with them anymore.
Good time to boil-out the radiator, too.
Did they check compression for bent-valves?
It IS a interference motor!!
Since the water pump has to come off anyway - paint and replace it!
Belts, hoses and clamps are up to you - make sure the spring in the lower hose is switched to the new, as very few come with them anymore.
Good time to boil-out the radiator, too.
Did they check compression for bent-valves?
It IS a interference motor!!
September 19th, 2012, 07:55 AM
#20
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Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
September 20th, 2012, 04:17 AM
#21
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 83
A Cloyes true roller will last almost forever.
Since the water pump has to come off anyway - paint and replace it!
Belts, hoses and clamps are up to you - make sure the spring in the lower hose is switched to the new, as very few come with them anymore.
Good time to boil-out the radiator, too.
Did they check compression for bent-valves?
It IS a interference motor!!
Since the water pump has to come off anyway - paint and replace it!
Belts, hoses and clamps are up to you - make sure the spring in the lower hose is switched to the new, as very few come with them anymore.
Good time to boil-out the radiator, too.
Did they check compression for bent-valves?
It IS a interference motor!!
I decided to have them replace the fuel pump. The timing gears are all steel...NO NYLON. Water pump was just replaced about a month ago!
The lower radiator hose was a flex hose but I seem to think that many of the same era engine bays I have peered into have a preformed hose not a flex hose on the bottom. Are flex hoses just as strong? What is the spring you are referring to on the hose?
When I asked about compression testing they said they hadn't checked but when they turned the distributor they were able to get the engine to idle normally and didn't think it sounded damaged. The timing chain was still intact but the timing was more than 10degrees off.
I also asked them to replace the sway bar bushings that looked as old as the car...
Jeff
September 20th, 2012, 05:59 AM
#22
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Location: Switzerland
Posts: 42
Welcome to the club!
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ing-gears.html
As a matter of fact the shop manual says that the engine has to come out of the car to replace the timing gears - or to remove the oil pan. But it's possible to replace the timing gears with the engine left in and just rise it a little. My shop did so. But this won't allow to clean the oil pan I'm afraid...
It's no problem to get timing gear set or radiator hoses - I think I got mine from Summit Racing.
Replacing the fuel pump is the easiest thing. If your engine ran smooth I think it can be done with only replacing timing chain and gears... but think about flushing the oil pan since they all say that the nylon stuff could stay in there (with normal oil change)...
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ing-gears.html
As a matter of fact the shop manual says that the engine has to come out of the car to replace the timing gears - or to remove the oil pan. But it's possible to replace the timing gears with the engine left in and just rise it a little. My shop did so. But this won't allow to clean the oil pan I'm afraid...
It's no problem to get timing gear set or radiator hoses - I think I got mine from Summit Racing.
Replacing the fuel pump is the easiest thing. If your engine ran smooth I think it can be done with only replacing timing chain and gears... but think about flushing the oil pan since they all say that the nylon stuff could stay in there (with normal oil change)...
September 20th, 2012, 06:16 AM
#23
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Your lower hose should be a molded hose and not a "[insert disadvantaged ethnic group's name here] - looking" flex-hose.
The hose should have a large spring inside of it to hold it open against suction from the water pump.
- Eric
The hose should have a large spring inside of it to hold it open against suction from the water pump.
- Eric
September 20th, 2012, 06:01 PM
#25
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Well, I picked up the Toronado tonight from the shop. The damage is done to the wallet.
Ignition coil
New plug wires
New oil pump
Coolant after flush
New oil after flush
New belts
New fuel pump
Clean oil pan (after removing engine...you all were right)
New gaskets
New timing chain and gears ALL METAL NO NYLON
New rear main seal
MAWs
Sway bar bushings
Sway bar end link set
Steering dampener replaced
It hit me for about $2600. Yowza! I took it off their lot and wow does it feel great! Idles smoothe, builds power nicely and the steering is much tighter. I did hear a clunk when I went over a bump with the wheels turned...maybe a bad ball joint. I didn't want to get into that on this trip. I did see them riveted in so I will wait and save money before I do that.
All told I think I did everything I intended to do over the next few years at one time. At least the engine didn't get damaged!
Thanks for all your opinions and information!
Jeff
Ignition coil
New plug wires
New oil pump
Coolant after flush
New oil after flush
New belts
New fuel pump
Clean oil pan (after removing engine...you all were right)
New gaskets
New timing chain and gears ALL METAL NO NYLON
New rear main seal
MAWs
Sway bar bushings
Sway bar end link set
Steering dampener replaced
It hit me for about $2600. Yowza! I took it off their lot and wow does it feel great! Idles smoothe, builds power nicely and the steering is much tighter. I did hear a clunk when I went over a bump with the wheels turned...maybe a bad ball joint. I didn't want to get into that on this trip. I did see them riveted in so I will wait and save money before I do that.
All told I think I did everything I intended to do over the next few years at one time. At least the engine didn't get damaged!
Thanks for all your opinions and information!
Jeff
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