2blu442

Joe
This seems to come up often when people are doing a swap and have trouble with the pullys. I was trying to organize the garage this weekend when I started looking at water pumps. I found three different lengths and seemed to remember a post saying there were three different ones for the 330-455 engines at least into the late 1970's. Here's some pictures I took of the three different ones I came up with. If you think photos would help explain this in future threads please move this to the location you feel would be best. John

P1010065.jpg

P1010069-1.jpg

P1010070-1.jpg

P1010071-1.jpg

P1010072-1.jpg

urnightshiftpal

Are there any other major distinguising marks/features besides length? i notice the longest one (a/c?) seems to have a ridge that the other two do not have.

2blu442

I don't know if it's true for all of the tall ones but this casting has the radiator hose port angled slightly backwards, away from the radiator. The other two are more straight out. There are a few other things like the raised ridges you pointed out. But I don't think they will have an impact on function.

Joffroi

I recently had to change my water pump on my 70 455 (with AC). Here is a picture of it (original on left, replacement on right), if you need the exact length, I'll find a tape measure:

edzolz

Any application info for the shortest pump will be appreciated. I assume it would take single groove pully.

joe_padavano

Excellent photos, thanks. One of my (unfortunately slow in coming) goals is to get side-by-side photos of all the things like this that tend to hang people up. Unfortunately, the pulleys must match the pump, and the shortest pump does not necessarily take a single belt pulley. In fact, the longest pump was used on the W-cars with HD cooling, and the non-A/C pulleys for those cars are pretty rare.

joe_padavano

By the way, a tape measure on each pump would be very helpful. They should be about 5.1", 5.6", and 6".

Bluevista

What tape measure would a person have sitting around with inch and tenths of inch increments??
Any normal person that is.

BlackGold

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I think the actual lengths are 5.125, 5.625, and 6.000. So you can use a tape measure with eights. Off the top of my head, that's what I recall seeing in the Chassis Service Manual. But I could be wrong.

jensenracing77

lol, i happen to have several of them in tenths. one of our customers at work use them and drop them in our building all the time. they hire alot of people that don't know how to read a tape in 16th and think it is easier to teach them how to read tenths.

Chesrown 67 OAI

i have a short one on my 67 330 non A/C. I have a long one on my 70 350 small block. I had a middle one on a 67 e-block 400 non A/C. Ran into same pulley match problem last winter when i changed motors. Used motor i bought had a long pump on it and i ended up having to scavanage the pump pulley off my 350 in order to get a pulley combination to work on the new installation! I thought at the time that i was the only schmuck that ever had faced that dilemma!! Guess i wasnt alone - eh??

Run to Rund

1965-67 all V8 take the short 5.12" pump, either regular or HD cool type.

Chesrown 67 OAI

Joe knows!!!!! Mine musta been W30 -- LOL - they ALWAYS got sumptin none other has!! LOL
U DA MAN.
P.S. Nice job with write-up in JWO!!!

cutlassjoe

The shortest one should have a shaft length of about 5". I know this because this is the one I needed, and had a heck of a time finding one. Mine used the two belt pulley, its a non a/c car.

Oldsmaniac

Hmmmm, seems I am having a bit of trouble as well. Will post some pictures when I get home. Got 2 pumps from Ebay. They are both listed for all olds 65-67 without AC. Looking for a pump for the 67 442. First one came and looks to have a smaller casting (smaller diameter bearing too) in the front where the bearing sits and shaft sticks out sorta long. It is no go for pulley alignment. I have a 425 engine out of a non AC 66 Delta and the pump is correct for the 67 442. I wrote off the first one and saw another on Ebay for a 66 Olds non AC. Asked for a picture showing shaft length and was told not needed as he was sure of application. Pump comes and is the same as first one...looks to be a lighter casting and not the pump I need. Guy swears I have an oddball setup or mismatch. I assured him all is original and a NON AC engine. I am now thinking that books are somehow missing something in which pumps fit what applications. Still guessing on this one.

Chesrown 67 OAI

Joe - any of the pumps will work if you have the corresponding pulleys. Like Joe D. says above - all 65-67 take short shaft. If you have a water pump pulley for a medium shaft then you gotta find a pulley. Measure the shaft to verify which length you have - if they arent the short shaft - then they arent from 65-67?

f-85

I have a 65 non a/c 425 setup here. It used a 5" pump. Whats the code on your pulleys? Ill post mine in a bit.

Oldsmaniac

Picts of the correct one for pulley alignment is red engine. Non painted pump is the ones being sent to me. Single groove pulley is good on red engine but with other pump on bronze engine its no go. Red pump has part number 384786 while wrong pump is 384783 if this means anything to anyone. I have correct pulleys but wrong pump.

Oldsmaniac

I dont have numbers off the pulleys here. Thanks.

Chesrown 67 OAI

joe -
measure the pump length -- if it is 5.1 it is the correct pump and if your pulleys dont fit it then you have wrong pulleys. Contrary to what Joe has said, I have had a 67 non AC car with a medium length pump. maybe thats what you will need if you believe your pulley to be correct. I have a pulley for both short and medium pumps.
Cheaper to find pulley than buy another pump!! LOL

Oldsmaniac

I need to measure then the one on the red engine as the one I have (pump) is 5.1. It is not correct for my crank pulley 2 groove and the pump pulley, 1 groove. Will have to go to my shop tomorrow to see and report back.

J-(Chicago)

Goes with 5.1" water pump:
65-67 style pulleys
JA crank pulley 390206 2 groove
JE water pump 390207 2 groove
JO power steering 382418 1 groove

Oldsmaniac

Thanks my setup will be 2 groove crank pulley, single groove water pump pulley and alternater pulley. A one belter.

Oldsmaniac

Well it would appear that my pulleys are the problem Have 40 years of engine parts EVERYwhere and there are slight differences in the 2 groove crank pulleys. I have about 6 of them and still looking. I swapped the one from the red engine and things are better on the 442 engine but not perfect. The red engine is also a 5.1 pump. I am wondering if my single groove pump pulley is correct. There are no stamping numbers on it. I guess I will need to pull the one off the 442 conv to compare.

jpc647

I needed the shortest length on my car, a 1972 cutlass s without ac. I have a two groove pulley.

OLDSmobility

Here's a breakdown of Oldsmobile water pumps, showing year and application and height, as well as part numbers and casting numbers.

http://www.oldsmobility.com/oldsmo/v....php?f=6&t=391

Chesrown 67 OAI

Do you have the information as to the outlet size on these different pumps? I have fould parts suppliers that list a pump with 1-3/4" outlet and others with 2" outlet? Would it be safe to assume that the short shaft non/ac pump would be the one with the 1-3/4" outlet?
Thanks for info!

OLDSmobility

No, sorry...none of my literature has that info.

joe_padavano

I was under the impression that the 1.75" outlet (actually, it's the INLET) was used on 1970-earlier and the 2" on 1971-later, but I'm not sure.

Chesrown 67 OAI

Just got a helluva deal on a new ALL-ALUMINUM GMB water pump from Advance Auto. It is a "long" (6") pump with 2 top outlets. I found it obscurely listed for a 1971 Cutlass w/455. It is the EXACT pump sold by Summit, Jegs, and others for around $68 bux. Got it from Advance Auto for only $26.00 bux and even had a 10% off coupon that i used and even got free shipping because they had a $75 free shipping special going on and i bot a few other things along with it! I thought it was "too good tobe true?" and figured sure as sugar that it would be a cast iron pump when it came but Low and Behold --- it was exactly as described -- and even had the same exact number on the box that Summit listed in their catalog AT $68+ !!
So if you want a cheap new alum pump, check them out! Its on the engine and running fine too!! It does have cast right into it -" GMB made in China"!! LOL
The box even contained a neat little cap and clamp to put on the heater hose outlet if you are not going to use that outlet! Never had one of those before!!

MDchanic

What's the part number? I just looked and for some reason they didn't even list stock pumps (wonder if they're having a software problem).

- Eric

Chesrown 67 OAI

its listed under their "performance" parts section.
Heres a link --- looks like they have raised the price about $5.00 since last month when i got mine -- but its still a helluva lot cheaper than others are getting for it!
part number is 130-1260. Enter this number in their search and it will pop up. Also try this link:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...AMS_1740465609____

Get them while there "HOT" -- I doubt if they will last long at this price - I really think itrs a mistake price since you can search it all over the net and find numerous vendors selling it in the $65-80 range?

MDchanic

Got it. Thanks.

Interestingly, the page gives a message that this pump "Does NOT fit your 1971 Cutlass," so their system is obviously confused (I have found it to be pretty accurate with applications in the past).

- Eric

Chesrown 67 OAI

you have to enter your vehicle as a 71 CUTLASS w/455 -- NOT 442!

Heres how it comes up then:

Yes, this part fits your 1971 Oldsmobile Cutlass.

Chesrown 67 OAI

P.S. This pump will fit ALL 64-72 Olds if you can gather the correct pulley combination for your car! I'm using a pulley set from a 73 350 with it on my 67. Obviously all you need is any pulley set designed for use with the 6" long water pump.
I really like that "cutsey" little cap they gave me to block off heater hose port!! LOL

MDchanic

I specified Cutlass, but obviously the wrong 455. I think I selected "UT" (the bottom one), but there were about ten 455 options listed in the pull down.

Once again - I think someone's been programming their site wrong...

And shouldn't this part fit everything up to and including the 403s and 260s from the early '80's? Or is there one of them thar nose-length problems with it?

- Eric

Chesrown 67 OAI

It does seem strange that they show so few compatabilities for it? The only way i discovered it in the first placed was I got the part number from the Summit listing and then went to Advance Auto and plugged in the part number and , to my surprise, it popped up at that LOW price. I went in reverse from there to see what they listed it to fit and the 71 Cutlass 455 was the only listing? Strange - eh?
Anyway - if you want one -- go ahead and get it soon- before they discover their "mistake" and put the price up to $70 bux!! Another of the "unlisted" differences is that some pumps are made with 1.75 inlet and others with 2" inlet. But a std bottom hose will fit either!! LOL

ddx77

Great thread, thanks!

Mr Shifty Sidney

408329 All W-30 and/or 3.73 rear end (exc W-30 w A/C or Y72)

Don W

JCMC64

Update:
By the way, that GMB 130-1260 advance auto pump now says Cast Iron on Specs tab, as well as on Summit descrip.
The price is now $33 but dont think it will be Aluminum.

The GMB 130-1360 states Aluminum and is now $36.
But its a 5.5 inch shaft.

Advance Auto GMB 130-1260P, is a 6" long shaft pump, but specs say
cast iron. But the picture does look like Aluminum. But pics are nothing
to go on as most know. Price is 26.99. Summit price is $66...but they too
state Cast Iron.

Here is a good thread on this pump ( a bit dated thought) - http://www.oldspower.com/vb/archive/...p?t-54771.html

Here are some pics I got off that thread. Back then that part was Aluminum , but open impellar style, not Hi flow.

GMB 130-1260P










I called Advance today as I was going to go check in person on it.
No store close to me has it. There is one 20 mins away I will try to see
when in that area...maybe tomorrow even.