shaks 442 clone

well i have decided to just rebuild my olds 350 and th350 trans instead of going with the 455

and i found this add on craigslist for an offenhauser intake and holley 750cfm double pumper carb

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/564193119.html

my old setup on the cutlass was stock intake and an edelbrock 600 cfm carb and it worked great

but i was wondering if this offenhauser and holley setup would be better ?

or would it be to much for my engine ?

im rebuilding the motor back to stock and im getting the rebuild kit from engine performance warehouse thru my schools machine shop

im going to upgrade the cam to a stage 2 comp or crane cam i cant remember which company it was and get a heavy duty timing chain instead of the standard and probably bore it out .30 over

any advice would be much appreciated

J-(Chicago)

Well, the Offy intake will definitely be lighter. depending what your goals with the motor are, a 750 dub might be overkill. I'd only get it if the price is right. Will you be performing the machine work yourself?

captjim

I doubt that you will be happy with a DP on a daily driver. You are better off with a stock intake or Performer, and a vac secondary carb, be it Q-jet, Holley, or E-brock. BTW, what pistons are you going to use?

shaks 442 clone

either cast or hyperutechtic pistion not sure if thats how its spelled

and the guy only wants 175 for manifold and carb i could probably get them both for 150

captjim

The reason I asked is because most cheapo cast replacement pistons are destroked. I just tore one apart and the pistons were .045 down in the hole. So, if you go that route chances are your final compression ratio will be quite low.

J-(Chicago)

Tell him to keep the carb and offer 60 bones for the mani. Worst they can say is go to hell, and no big loss if they do.

88 coupe

Hypereutectic is a cast piston, with silicon added to the aluminum. It's a good choice. Your Shop Teacher will help you choose the best dish and pin height, for your application.

Your Edelbrock carb will work fine with the Offenhauser manifold. Maybe you can sell the Holley for a few bucks.

Norm

awningman67

I used a formula which I found in an old Hot Rod magazine to determine the correct size carb. I found it again when I googled carburetor formula. It was in a site called mortec.com. In my opinion, a 750 double pumper would be to much. I would think something in the 600-650 range would work best. I also thought that dbl pumpers were more for 4spd street/strip use, but that is only what I have read and not experienced. I ran a 650 holley on my 396 and couldn't tell the difference when I installed a 750 holley. Also, I have had several people try to sell me a dbl pumper that was actually dual feed so beware.

Rhett

88 coupe

For this application, 500 CFM will be enough.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Carb_CFM_Calculator.html

Norm

shaks 442 clone

umm the guy agreed to take 80 bucks for the manifold

but

on the summit website it says that none of the offenhauser manifolds will clear and hei cap which i have converted my distributor too so now i dont know what to do

has anyone ever tried using an hei distributor with the offenhauser intake ?

The_Jeremiah

if it says it wont clear it, it wont unfortinately, that was the deciding factor for me to get a performer rpm. However if you still have your old distributor you could always go back to that, otherwise grab yourself an edelbrock performer rpm. i say performer rpm, because the performer has been rumored to not be much improvement over a stock 4barrel intake. i found mine used on ebay for 130 bucks. its only like 3 months old. and its in perfect shape

shaks 442 clone

jeremiah did you feel like you lost much low end power when you put the performer rpm on?

im just wondering because it says it doesnt start producing power till 1500 rpm.

88 coupe

Not what it means. Ignore it.

I don't think anyone knows what application those numbers apply to.

Norm

captjim

I did a comparison between the RPM and Performer on my 355 with a 210/..477 cam in it. The car was a tenth quicker with the Performer and had noticably better off idle throttle response. IMO, 9 to 1 is about the cut off point, more than that I would use the RPM, lress the Performer. Just MHO.

shaks 442 clone

umm stock the olds 350 i have is 10.25 to 1 and i was gonna see if i could go for close to 11 to 1 and going .30 over to get the 355 displacement

and i found out since i work for kragen the normal cost is like 240 in store and if i give my self 30% off i can get a new one for like 190 bucks new so im gonna get the performer rpm

Oldsguy

10.25:1 stock? what year engine are you talking about? I don't think it would be a 350. I think maybe the 400 was 10.25:1 in '68.

captjim

I am not certain but I thought that they did make a high comp 350 back then? Had a smaller dish?

shaks, you are not planning to run this on pump gas, are you?

J-(Chicago)

11-1 compression would be a gamble on the chitty gas around here.

shaks 442 clone

the teacher in the machine shop like 2 months ago was going over rebuild kits with me and he was looking thru 2 catalogs one from engine performance warehouse and the other from someother company

and he crossed everything over i cant remember the cc for the piston but it was in the 60's and he said the compression ration was 10.25 to 1

88 coupe

10+ static compression ratios date back to '57. Not a problem to run them on pump gas.

Norm

captjim

To be fair, when most of those 10+ engines were offered, 100+ octane was available at the pumps. In some places, 89 is it. My hat's off to the guy who can run an 11 to 1 iron-headed engine on today's fuels that runs good and doesn't detonate. I have yet to talk to a cam grinder (these include Engle, Bullet, and DM) or a builder (these include FRC, DM, RR, and Smitty) who recommend going over 9.8 on a street engine. Yes, it can be done, but your tune (including the cam, timing curve, and A/F) better be dead nuts on.

shaks 442 clone

well i'll see what the machine shop teacher says im going to have him help me with the parts list so everything works together good from carb to crank

and it was only a hope of mine to squeeze more power out of it by increasing the comprestion ratio no one told me it would be a good or bad idea

i'll let you guys know sometime this week or next what im going with

88 coupe

Good move. He is in a position to know more, about your needs/goals, than anyone on the internet.

Whether it's a good, or a bad idea, depends on the rest of your combination. At your power level, you wouldn't see much difference between 9.5 and 10.25 anyway.

Norm

88 coupe

Here is a link to the announcement: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...html#post19257

And here is the evaluation: http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33633.

Not scientific, is an understatement.

Static compression ratio has little, if anything, to do with intake manifold selection.

Good choice. The RPM will make it look more like a real Racecar.

Norm

captjim

Typical Norm post, insulting, how unusual. Yes, my "test" was unscientific, as stated, but a lot more than most guys have done before disparaging the Performer. I am not going to make 2 runs at the track, change intakes, then make 2 more runs for comparisons sake. I will state that my car is noticeably more responsive with the Performer and still runs as good or better ET.

"Static compression ratio has little, if anything, to do with intake manifold selection."

This statement is ridiculous. Cr is crucial in the selection of a cam, which then affects intake manifold choice.

"Good choice. The RPM will make it look more like a real Racecar."
This is you, being a jerk.

Olds64

Shak. You might consider purchasing the Offenhauser intake and running a points style distributor with a Pertronix conversion kit in it. I ran a Pertronix kit on my 64 Olds 98. It was easy to put in, reasonably priced, and performed superbly. Of course, you probably won't see a difference in 1/4 mi. times when switching from points to HEI / variable reluctor ignition; however, at a mild street engine power level that doesn't matter. I highly suggest the Pertronix kit.

88 coupe

Typical captjim post, childish, how unusual.

As you stated in another thread, but not in this one. Hence, the links, and the comment.

You made no attempt to control/account for, any of the numerous variables. How could that make your comparison any more valid than "most guys"?

Nothing to do with anything. If you did, it would not (due to those "variables") be any more "scientific" than your last "comparison".

It is your car. As long as you are happy with it, that is all that matters.

Which choice might be best for Shaks engine, has nothing to do with how happy you are with your unique application. By recommending one, or the other, you have done him (and everyone else) a disservice.

This statement is childish.

Crucial? No. A major factor? Yes. How major, depends on the application.

OK. Cam choice can affect manifold choice. However, it is only one of many considerations.

This is you, being an adolescent.

Norm

captjim

"Which choice might be best for Shaks engine, has nothing to do with how happy you are with your unique application. By recommending one, or the other, you have done him (and everyone else) a disservice."

Now I am really confused. I thought the purpose of message boards like this is to share experiences and info. So, telling another member with a similar combo to mine that the Performer outperformed the RPM on my 355 is a disservice? I can't agree with that.


"This is you, being an adolescent."

Why is it that you can insult a member in nearly every post you make, but when someone calls you on it, they are immature? Your "Good choice. The RPM will make it look more like a real Racecar" statement was meant to be insulting and demeaning, there is no other purpose to say that.

Hey admins, PM me at ROP or OP and I'll share e-mails and PMs from guys who no longer come here or post here because of Norm. If you wonder why this site (which has a really great bunch of guys for the most part) doesn't get as much traffic as the other Olds sites, Norm is one of the primary reasons. His insulting, arrogant, and bullying posting style keeps other guys from joining in on the conversation. When a guy says "being polite gets in the way of effective communication" that says all you really need to know. I'll leave now and quit cluttering up this site. Obviously, I am one of the few that will call him on his crap, so we end up arguing, and that's no good for anyone. See ya.

Olds64

Stop the madness Norm.

shaks 442 clone

i read all of norms last post and none of it was about my thread lol

and olds64 im just going to stick with the HEI i have now, its wired into my msd box and i dont really wanna tinker with the wiring anymore then moving the msd box to where the ac box once was

88 coupe

Everyone:

I've seen it happen on those other two sites. He gets frustrated when someone questions any of his statements. You can see the result.

You said it, I didn't.

And to discuss those experiences and that information. It is always helpful, if the experiences are relevant, and the information is accurate.

I don't belive he will be using 22cc "dished" pistons and an "RV" cam. If he does, we can call them "similar".

Yes. As I explained in post #27, your "comparison" was not valid. Your "improvements" could very well be caused by the placebo effect. Either way, you have no accurate information to pass on to anyone.

Let us put this one into its proper context, shall we?

Looks like a legitimate response, to me.

If anyone disagrees, my PM box is always open.

Why is it that you can find an insult in nearly every post I make? Why is it that when I challenge you to find, define, and post one in a PM, you are unable to do so? Here it is again:

Should be easy enough.

I do not know that anyone has "called me" on anything. I am fully capable of discussing anything I post.

You are mistaken. The CO search engine says, I have only used the word "immature" once, on this site. Here it is, again:

Doesn't look like an insult to me.

If anyone disagrees, my PM box is always open.

I think we can see why you get into so many pizzing contests at those "other" sites.

We can also see, that you were unable to answer the simple (and on topic) questions I asked. Once we have seen through your "smokescreen" that is.

Norm

J-(Chicago)

I thought the race car comment was funny. Not nice, or relevant, but there WAS a very small degree of entertainment value there, thus making it not entirely useless.

captjim

Interesting post. You recognize that Norms comment was not nice, funny, and irrelevant. Hmm. So, a comment that was not nice but funny, could that be an attempt to make fun of another member? And, could making fun of somebody be considered an insult? I think so. So, there you have it Norm, independent corroboration from J-(Chicago) He recognizes that your remark was clearly meant as an insult, as does everybody else. So this statement;
" Why is it that you can find an insult in nearly every post I make? Why is it that when I challenge you to find, define, and post one in a PM, you are unable to do so?"
is not so accurate, as "J" has found the same insult that I did.

shaks 442 clone

cmon guys lets get back on topic


should i get the performer series intake or performer rpm


help!!!

J-(Chicago)

There is a loop hole in the system, since anyone can perceive the posts however they choose. I chose to be amused, and it worked out well for me.
I could have also chose to be pissed off and concerned for your feelings, and it also would have interchanged just fine.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You 2 should just have a beer and call it a day. All of these comments have been a borderline waste of time and internet space for the admin and aspiring Olds scholars. I'm also pretty sure Shak would like his thread back some time in the near future

Shak, any word on what your shop teacher had to say?

J-(Chicago)

My vote is for the Performer RPM.
My only personal experience with the Performer, was putting one on a stock 85 307. It didn't help any as far as I was concerned, and I personally I feel the car ran slightly worse. That information doesn't really help you out since yours is a 350, and I didn't dyno it. (a why bother situation)
I have a Performer Rpm on my 71 350. My machine shop also felt that It was a better intake to use, but then again, my build and application is probably totally different than yours.

dar83501

I can't help you with your intake issues, but the rest of you need to not distract the purpose of his thread and see who can **** farther. He wants help not fifteen posts of garbage in his thread.

If you do something like that to one of my threads when I need help...

I'll do absolutely nothing about it.

shaks 442 clone

monday is presidents day and i wont have access to the shop till wednesday so i'll probably be letting you guys know wednesday

88 coupe

Thank you.

Norm

88 coupe

And thank you, again.

Norm