DEEPCUTT

I'm new to the site so if this question has been beat to death I apologize in advance. I have a stock 70 supreme notchback and I'm about to get the exhaust done to bring out the beast a bit. Is it worth having headers put on it and if so which ones would fit right with my car? I've gone on the various sites but I wanted to check with you all to see what would work the best. I want Hooker headers and Dynomax turbo mufflers. The shop does all the pipes and bends so I'm not buying the whole exhaust kit. Much appreciated!

oldcutlass

Headers is a matter of preference and/or budget. There are quite a few different types! We can fill a page or 2 on the descriptions, long or short tube, street or performance, tube diameters, coated or non coated, etc.. They can range in price from under $200 up to $1000+.

455man

I love/hate headers. For performance or even gas mileage they are a must but leaks, overheating starters and scraping the ground get old. I plan on putting headers back on both my cars.
What brand to go with, I'm not sure.

jag1886

If you are going to leave the car pretty much stock I wouldn't do it.

stevengerard

if the rest of the engine is stock, just adding headers doesn't seem like it would be worth it, saying that my neighbor has a stock supreme with a 350 and headers, the car sounds WAY better than my 70 442. But that could have more to do with the mufflers than the headers, I'm sure its a combination of both but I will tell you his car is also slower than my stock 455

DEEPCUTT

Thanks alot guys! I'm just going to go with making it dual exhaust and put some Dynomax mufflers on without headers. Even though I do like that "tinny" sound they produce. People are telling me more and more that headers are just a pain in the butt w/ leaks, bolts loosening and bottoming out. Hopefully the mufflers will satisfy my thirst for some rumble. Appreciate the comments!

rocketraider

As long as you size them right, you'll be OK, but I think they'd be more trouble than they're worth. In other words you do not want 1-7/8" or 2" headers on that stock engine. 1-5/8" would be more than enough, and shorties would be the easiest to install and live with.

Also remember that if you open up exhaust, you will create a lean fuel engine condition. Combined with ethanol crap gas, you could easily go lean enough to burn pistons/valves before you realised what happened.

Redog

I would do it, why not!

Heddman makes a set of shorty headers. I think they will fit my 85 Delta, but I haven't tried it yet. I know a set of long tubes that WILL work, but I want to stay clear of long tubes if I can.

On top of MPG, you'll get better sound

67 Cutlass Freak

If you just want it to be louder, go for the dual exhaust and performance mufflers you wanted to. If you really want to wake that thing up, call up Smitty @ http://www.mjproformance.com/ They make the best **** for an Olds. You will also need to swap out the cam, intake, and upgrade the fuel system. So if you don't have the cash for all that, or you really don't need to go fast, stick to your original plan. Remember, speed is addictive, and expensive.

DEEPCUTT

Great advice! I went to a classic car parts store here in town today and told the owner that I was looking for headers to fit my 70 Cutlass Supreme, the first thing he said was.."why?!" That's pretty much the reaction I've been getting from family too, who are hot rod buliders. To them it seems headers are mostly for pumped out classics and hot rods. I'd like a nice vintage sound so I'm thinkin some Dynomax super turbos or the good old Thrush glass packs. Only thing, I don't want to scare my wife off with the sound of it,lol. What do you all think?

380 Racer

I'm afraid that is a matter of opinion.

Rickman48

If you don't go with headers, I'd highly recommend a mandrel bent 2 1/2 inch system with an X pipe.
The mandrel bent system is a little more money, but worth it in flow over a 'crush bent' system.
Any exhaust shop can install it. I'd have the system welded, not clamped, too.
True duals may also require a "double hump" transmission crossmember, if yours is single, for right side clearance.
I'd check the different muffler manufacturers websights for the sound you're looking for, as most have audio for their different mufflers.
Might have the wife next to you, too, as changing them are a PIA!

redoldsman

Your car should already have a double hump cross member. The X pipe or an H pipe will cut down the drone you will get without it. I see no reason to go with headers on this car unless you just want to add some misery to your life and enjoy your car less. You could always sdd them later and keep the rest of the exhaust system.

bccan

Over the years I've added headers to a few different basically stock Cutlass/442/Chevelle/GTO's. IMO they are definitely worth it from a performance standpoint as well as "the sound" that you seek, especially in a SBO. The manifolds are really restrictive. If your car is presently single exhaust you will likely feel the difference, real or imagined, before you are out of the parking lot or driveway. To optimize the swap, some rejetting might be necessary but I have found most of the Qjets I have played with are set up a little fat and the headers may bring a decent condition carb right into line w/ a comfortably lean idle/cruise. I generally find that I have to run smaller than original jets than came originally (after air bleed resizing, etc) on even pretty healthy engines.

Next week we'll be installing some Hooker 3901's (1 5/8 x 2 1/2) in the kid's car grafted into existing 2.5 X Pypes system w/ Dynomax. My intention is to post up the results of sound, any needed carb recalibration & track results after 9/30. When we went in the spring, he got down into 14.6 @ 96 range, car runs appx 15.5:1 @ cruise w/ a 68 jet and 45B rods (CL .667 w/ "F" hanger- appx 12.8:1 WOT). I put this out there for general info as this is a pretty common mod for stock or close to stock cars. FWIW, I think this car is actually louder w/ manifolds @ moderate engine speeds than my blue car is w/ healthy modded engine, 1 3/4 x 3.5 headers w/ same X Pype(s) / Dynomax system.

I chose the small headers for this car as a comprimise between price, tube thickness (16g vs frequent 18g), torque being by far the most important performance goal, maybe a tad easier to install although headers are not typically that difficult to install in these cars. Don't foresee much other modification as it is a 20 year old (today-this is a 50/50 B Day present) kid's car that is his daily transportation. For reference this is a .030 over 350, exactly 9:1, heads have big valves, filled x-over and welded divider - I knew the header thing was going to happen @ some point. Car has 3.08 and as of last week a 200-4R. Tachs 1900 rpm @ 70! This car is a great driver & I look forward to seeing how much the headers wake the engine up. I have resigned myself to the likelihood of going back into the carb but it will probably just be a jump to 69 jets.

DEEPCUTT

Thanks guys for the great comments and info. I'm gonna take the consensus advice and go with no headers. They just seem like a PITA. I'd like to keep the car pretty much stock since it is in such good shape. I really did find a nice Olds. I'm going to take it to a local muffler shop and have them dual exhaust it and put some Dynomax super turbos on. They said it would be $450. I appreciate the advice and I'll let yall know how it comes out. Doing it on Friday

DEEPCUTT

Hey guys, so I'm having my exhaust done a week from wednesday( the shop is swamped til then). I told him I want to have him convert it to dual exhaust and throw some Dynomax Super Turbos on it. I asked him if the 2.5 would work ok and he said that the manifolds are 2" so the 2.5 would not do me much good and it would be pretty loud inside the car. I figure the guy knows what he's talking about, I did tell him that i didn't want it to drone and resonate too much inside the car. Basically I said ok, put 2.25's on it with 14" length with an H pipe and that's what he's going to do. Is this going to give me a nice healthy muscle car sound? Is 2.5 vs 2.25 that much of a difference? Sorry to bug, just curious to hear what you guys think. Thanks

GreekDog

Well if Im not mistaken their isnt really a good reason to run a bigger pipe if your manifold is only 2 inches. If your manifold has a two inch opening than I would just run two inch exhaust pipes.

redoldsman

One advantage of running a larger pipe is that if you decide to add headers later, you won't have to replace the pipes. If it were mine, I would go with at least 2 1/4 pipes.

Lee_A

GOOD ANSWER!

I would urge you to find a different exhaust shop. You are just p!ssing away money, paying $450 for a 2" system.

The SMALLEST headers you'll find will have at least 2.5" collectors. If you put headers on later, the 2" system will be choking them off, and you'll have to re-do the whole system AGAIN.

My advice?
- Cancel the muffler shop appointment
- Start a "make my Cutlass faster" savings account, and put the $450 in it
- Every time you feel the urge to buy something, put the money in the account instead.
- wait until you can do this "right"

"Right" means pulling the heads off, having the divider welded up (you'll be losing part of the benefit of headers until you do this, anyway), fresh valve job, and install springs that will allow you to do the cam change (which is what you'll want to do as soon as you have the headers installed).

Odds are that you've got at least one exhaust manifold bolt that is frozen into the head, and will strip/break when you try to remove the stock exhaust manifolds - so you'll end up pulling the head anyway.

Save until you can do the heads, headers, and exhaust all at the same time.

Lee

p.s. the dipstick tube will probably p!ss you off when you put the headers on :-)

rocketraider

The preceding post should be enough to convince you not to do it. One thing always leads to another and next thing you're into a heavily modified engine that may or may not be easy to live with. For a street-driven cruiser, factory manifolds, 2 or 2-1/4 pipes and a good low-restriction muffler with the pipes run all the way to the bumper will be fine. I can't stand seeing a B-O-P with tailpipes chopped off behind the axle and turning out the side of the car. It looks ghetto.

Besides, when you start fooling with seized bolts, dipstick tubes breaking off and having to undo all the transmission lines to run them thru the headers, you will ask yourself why the hell did I ever think about this.

OLD SKL 69

Well I guess you'll get a lot of different opinions on this so here's mine. It depends on what your long range plans are with the car. Are you going to modify the engine or do you just want to give it a better sound?

If you just want the better sound, then get the system you mentioned without the headers. A small diameter dual exhaust (2-2.25) will give you good low end torque on a stock low compression engine.

If you plan on modifying the engine, then hold off on the exhaust until you have a plan on your list of mods, this way everything works together and you're not replacing parts later because they are mis-matched.

redoldsman

My advice, go get the duals without headers and get 2 1/2 inch pipes. You are not going to gain a lot of improvement in horsepower but you will get tons of what I call the "cool factor". The car will seem faster because it sounds so much better. It will sound like a muscle car instead of your grandma's old car. It will be money well spent. It was the first thing I did to my Cutlass when I bought it in 1993. A nice set of twin turbos will put a smile on your face.

oldsconv

I also vote no on headers, but depends on what you are doing. If you have a wild cam and good head porting, etc. etc. then you might need the better flowing exhaust that headers will provide. Relatively stock car, I say no.

Same issues as previous people. On my 70 Chevelle SS, years ago, I had headers, holley carb, etc. and headers always leaked (although newer technology may be better) and I always had the hot starter problem. I went back to stock exhaust manifolds and Q-Jet (now car starts better with factory choke) and the exhaust does not leak, etc. I did not notice one iota of performance decrease when I made these changes since it was a factory engine, not too wild (396/350 hp) and now the car is much easier to live with.

rustyroger

A a general rule if you want more power from the engine the exhaust system is where to start, Factory systems are requiered to be cheap to make with performance not the main issue, spending a few more dollars on an less restrictive system is normally a good start.
Don't overdo it though and make sure it is a proven system, sometimes a loud exhaust can have LESS bhp because of poor design.
If you just want your car to sound good don't bother with headers, just a quality low restriction system should have you cruisin' with a grin across your face.

Roger.

Lee_A

I've put headers on a variety of vehicles, and haven't had a leak in probably 20 years. On my Falcon wagon, I've even reused the header gaskets 4-times, and STILL don't leak!

- Preperation
- Quality gaskets
- light coat of Ultra Copper RTV
- re-check bolts

Prep: Spray a light coat of paint (I like sandable primer) on the sealing face of the header. Then, run a wide file over the sealing area. Any place the paint remains is a low-spot, and a likely location of a future leak. I'll weld up the area (if needed) and continue filing until I have a smooth, flat sealing face

Gaskets: Steel-core graphite-faced. Mr. Gasket and Fel Pro both make these types. They cost a little more, but are TOTALLY worth it. As I mentioned above, I often can reuse these multiple times.

RTV: The high-temp "Ultra Copper" RTV has worked very well for me. Just a light coat is all that I need.

Re-check: I'll check the bolts at least twice before starting the motor. After getting the motor fired up, I let it cool and recheck the bolts - the gasket has typically compressed, and the bolts will all be a little loose at this point. I keep rechecking the bolts each time the motor is ran until NONE of the bolts are found to need further tightening.

Lee

ah64pilot

I put headers on my first Cutlass Supreme 350...I ran 2 1/4" pipes through flowmasters and out the back. After hearing the muscle car sound I decided I wanted to feel the muscle car feel...6 months after putting the 350 headers and exhaust on I yanked it all...tailpipe to carburetor. In went a 455, another set of headers, 3" exhaust, and 3" flowmasters.

My point - don't do it on a 350...you're going to wish you had a 455 and then...the rest will be history.

droptopron

Another option is the 350 true dual exhaust manifolds for small blocks that they are selling now. You can avoid the block off plate that way.

380 Racer

I have run headers on my cars since I was 17, and Olds are much nicer than a Chevy. Plugs and wires are a breeze with the Olds. I like using a good quality header and have never had problems with the starter over heating. Good quality gaskets and checking the bolts from time to time will help a bunch.

troyh

I had to put headers on the beast. It had rusty crusty ones on it when I bought it. It also had a 403 out of a trans am. Now the proper 72 350 is in. I couldnt find manifolds for duals 12 years ago when it was done. Ive never had problems with my flowtech headers leaking or hitting anything. I love how it sounds with he dynomax turbo mufflers on it.

DEEPCUTT

I really appreciate all of the advice and stories, thanks alot! So my exhaust is on and I'm enjoying it completely! They did dual 2 1/4 pipes all the way back with the turbo mufflers, he put turn down chrome tips that look awesome, almost stock looking. They really did a great job. You can barely see the mufflers standing behind the car because he tucked the system well and it looks super clean. It's exactly what I was looking for, it sounds deep and healthy, not obnoxious at all. My wife likes it too!lol. I didn't want it to sound like more than it is and it doesn't. It's perfect for me. thanks again for the suggestions, they really helped me decide

redoldsman

I bet you have that smile on your face now. If the wife is smiling I am sure you are smiling. Glad we could help. Enjoy your car.