wjustinmartin

I just had an HEI installed in my 1967 CS - 330 engine - bone stock.

I drove it for a couple of hours, and now I notice a couple of troubling noises. I have searched here, but to be honest, I probably don't know enough to find anything for which I am looking.

Firstly, under acceleration, noisy rattle, what I am assuming some call "dieseling." Being as the car misses a bit, I am assuming that this could be "pinging' due to poor timing and not burning all the fuel the first time around.

Secondly, at idle, the engine is quiet, but when you press the accelerator, there is an intermittent knock. When I put the car in drive, the knock is very consistent and rhythmic, and alters when the car shifts gears (gets slower with the lower RPM). However, when I let off of the accelerator, the knock disappears.

My guesses are many - from loose flywheel/t converter to rod bearing, to main bearing. In addition, I use a wheelchair for mobility, so crawling around and using the screwdriver/socket extension "stethoscope" to check isn't a possibility. I was hoping to get some information so I could have a starting place for my mechanic, rather than just throwing money and replacing stuff that might be working properly.

Any suggestions/clues?

yzzerdd

Sounds alot like my car did when I first got ahold of it....try putting in a tank of premium. My car would idle great, and with slow accelleration, or some sustained speeds, itd sound good. But under heavy acceleration or in some moderate range, itd ping, sound like it was missing, and blow smoke. I read through my manual and apparently the car takes 89 octane--mid-grade gas. But I'd try premium, then step it down to mid-grade.

--Ryan

wjustinmartin

I have been running premium in the car.

wjustinmartin

I drove to the store this afternoon - consistent knock in drive, intermittent knock while revving the engine. I am hoping flywheel/t converter loose, but I am starting to believe it is a rod/bearing or main bearing.

Suggestions? comments? Are people worn out with my questions?

RAMBOW

What is the initial timing and what is the total timing?

wjustinmartin

Rambow, those are great questions, however, with my utter limited knowledge of any of that, I have no answers.

442scotty

Im gonna say timing if the problem just started after installing a HEI...happened to me...too much advance to soon in my HEI...I ended up getting a HEI from DUI that was made to my engine specs...solved my problem...I wouldnt drive it like that..could do some major damage

wjustinmartin

So it is possible that by the timing being off that the knock is present?

Oldsmaniac

A knock is a knock, a tap a tap, and a ping or rattle is just that. Very hard to diagnose on this forum. A rod bearing knock can sometimes be pinpointed by pulling one spark plug wire at a time and then reving the engine some in neutral. With no load/spark on the offending cylinder the sound may go away which would pinpoint the rod bearing causing the noise.

RAMBOW

So, I'm guessing you just did the ole mark #1 & stab method to get the new distrib in?

Considering this started after you changed, i'd almost guarantee this is the problem.

You need to get yourself a Chitons or Haynes service manual to learn how to check timing & total, get yourself a timing light and asnwer those two questions- anything else anyone can tell you about troubleshooting it is moot until you know what the initial & total timing is.

If your total timing is wrong giving you too much advance, it will cause the motor to ping under any kind of load- exactly as you are describing.

Since you changed distributors- the new one likely has a totally different curve set on it (mechanical & vacume advance) (espacially if its a brand new off she shelf distributor!)

Even if your initial timing is set the same as your old one, if the new distrib is set to give more advance- it will cause your ping.

----
In the meantime to try and help identify the problem, you could try to disconnect the vacume advance (be sure to plug the port on the carb) and see if it still pings.

If it does still ping, you can try turning the distrib a hair to try and retard it a few degrees (can't remember the direction (clockwise i think) but its whichever makes the RPMS fall)- But without a timing light you are just shooting in the dark when changing the timing.

RAMBOW

Also- What is your Oil Pressure?
If it was a Rod or Main bearing your Oil pressure would be way down or Zero

Just trying to help isolate the problem. That isn't the only think that could possibly be a knock- but if it were, the oil pressure would be a dead giveaway.

wjustinmartin

Yeah - I am assuming that is exactly what my guy did - found TDC, dropped in the HEI, and moved it about until it sounded ok.

I didn't do any of the work, as I can't stand-up and lay in the engine compartment - my wheelchair prevents any of that contorting.

wjustinmartin

Oh - 7.5 degrees at 850 RPM initial timing for a 1967 330 CI

wjustinmartin

OK - got timing set with a light - spot on - runs a ton better, obviously: dieseling stopped, missing stopped, the engine purrs and hums like a beauty now

except for one thing - the knocking I heard

the knocking almost totally went away, but under a load, a slight ticking is happening - very consistent, sounds like it is happening on 4 out of 8 cylinders - almost a slight puff/tick sound - leads me to believe it is a manifold leak on one side - it isn't so much noticeable unless I am accelerating, and seems to go away at cruising speeds - or it is so fast I no longer detect the sound

I am leaning toward exhaust leak - the engine is smooth as can be, and was obviously re-built by the previous owner - who also decided to have the engine painted blue (?) - it has the olds gold underneath where the paint is coming off, though

what say the experts here?

ps - that car is a frickin blast to drive! turns heads everywhere, constant source of compliments; a ton of fun to own

59-59-59

Probably off topic, but did you get rid of the resistor or resistor wire when you switched to HEI?

wjustinmartin

I didn't do the HEI installation - I don't what the mechanic that did the installation did with the resistor/wire - why?

wjustinmartin

anyone?

59-59-59

In short.. with a HEI distributor you need the full 12 volts when running it.. Points you need like 8 volts to run it ( except when cranking it ) Check if you or the mechanic eliminated the resistor or resistor wire when he did the swap

64Rocket

Since you have reset the initial timing, you also need to adjust the total timing at RPM.

Gene

wjustinmartin

The resistor was not used - I double checked yesterday.

Thanks for the info, Gene

I should try to post a video/audio of the noise I am hearing - it is very fait, however, and I don't know if it will pick up on through my vid camera.

wjustinmartin

One thing I have noticed is that the noise does not appear until the engine is warmed up a bit - I have stopped driving the car, as I don't want to damage anything; there is a severe lack of any mechanics I would trust with the engine, to be honest - I can't find anyone I am comfortable leaving the car with to diagnose any problems - DAMN YOU 330!

oldcutlass

A couple of things to remember:
1 - the initial timing needs to be set a bit higher with an HEI!!
2 - some vacuum advance units are non-adjustable, so there may be no adjustment for total advance.

The noise you may be hearing could be related to rocker arms and / or lifters!!!

scubastever

i recommend decarbon the engine- sounds like a pinging from carbon.
i hear 'seafoam' products work very well..
also verify your ignition timing is set up correctly. (check the advance diaphragm actually holds vacuum!)

cutlassefi

edzolz

Other issues to look at... What weight oil are you running? How long has it been since a change? What brand filter are you using? Use a WIX if possible. I have heard and seen tapping noise go away with nothing more than changing brands of oil filters. If possible, use a stethescope to locate which cylinders the tapping is coming from. I realize you might have a hard time doing this but have someone else listen for you. If the noise can be isolated, it might be a rocker set that is worn a little. If so, the bottom of the bridge can be sanded slightly (don't go crazy here) to tighten the clearance a little. 67's are my favorite of all the A bodies.

wjustinmartin

I use 20/50 Penzoil - dino oil; Fram filters

Should I exchange a qt of trans fluid for the 20/50 next change to see if the added detergent might loosen up some goo? Maybe give some extra $ for Royal Purple? 8oz of Seafoam in the gas tank? I am hoping beyond hope it is something other than the bottom end - it sounds lighter than that, though - almost like a faint sewing machine sound - steady rhythm, higher pitch

yeah - the 67 has been my dream car since childhood

edzolz

My opinion is that 20/50 is too heavy for a SBO unless it has lots of miles. I would run nothing heavier than 10/30, unless you live in a very high temp area. Like Arizona desert temps around 100-110 all day. The reason for dual viscosity oil is for the property to flow no slower than 10 weight when cold and no faster than 30 weight when it is hot.

wjustinmartin

really - I was under the assumption that thicker viscosity = better protection at higher operating temps

edzolz

Thicker viscosity does give better protection but it also flows slower. That is why you need an oil that flows like 30 wt at higher temps. You sure don't want a 10 wt viscosity at elevated temps nor do you want thick oil at lower temps.

wjustinmartin

After a thorough diagnosis today, using a makeshift stethoscope and taking off the valve covers, the mechanic I use narrowed the noise down to a lifter or a valve. I didn't know the valvetrain on the 330s were not adjustable.

So now the question becomes, replace the unadjustable valve train with adjustable rockers and fix the noisy lifter/valve OR leave the valvetrain as is and just fix the noisy lifter/valve

I guess option 3 would be to swap engines with the 1969 455 and be done with it - which is tempting, for sure.

Reckon someone would by a 1969 98 convertible with a noisy 330?

wjustinmartin

$730 for lifters and new rocker assemblies all around - not all of the rockers were iffy, but I feel better changing them all out - that will stop the annoying tick, for sure

Seems reasonable - a bit on the high side, but what isn't these days?

oldcutlass

Sorry I have not been around for a while and missed your question on lifters/rockers/etc... Glad you got it fixed. Now back to the HEI, I have found that you can advance your timing 3-8 degrees depending on gas over a stock pts type. I left the pts type in my sons car because there was nothing wrong with it.

On the oil issue, with 125K miles on this 330 and running 10w30 my oil pressure at idle and 100 degrees here in the summer it only shows 5-7 psi on the mechanical oil pressure guage. With the 20w50 it shows 15-20 psi. 40 psi cold.

Good luck

wjustinmartin

well, after all that work was done (not paid for), the noise didn't stop - the mechanic took it to a machine shop, and it is a lynch pin or some piston issue - rebuilding the engine

$3000, and no charge for the head work previously performed - damn

oldcutlass

Oh man that sux, I had a similar experience when I went to replace my valve guide seals. Got to the third cylinder and blew the water out of the radiator on to my feet. Ended up doing a complete valve job. Well look at it this way, you'll be a bit poorer but not have to worry about engine issues. Now you will have to find other things on the car to spend money on.

Warhead

That is no reason to swap engines. You may have the same issue with a 455.
It is better to know what to do.
How much noise does this thing really make?
A lil ticking...sounds like one of my valve jobs.
Better loose, than tight.
When this was rebuilt, did they give any information as to what stem height these were set to?
Are there any worn parts in the noisy offenders?
There is more than 1 way to skin this cat.
Jim

wjustinmartin

Update - got the car back Friday morning - runs like a champ with the rebuild motor - now I need a fuel sender and a divorced choke thermostat/divorced choke as the one on the car is no longer good.

Would a later model q-jet with an electric choke work?