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Joe, I've got a June 1975 book that agrees with the guide number, but shows the indicator for 64-66 330 as 397868. So... could it show up as either number and still be correct?
Joe, I've got a June 1975 book that agrees with the guide number, but shows the indicator for 64-66 330 as 397868. So... could it show up as either number and still be correct?
Olds part numbers were assigned roughly chronologically. 397868 is a newer number than 384999. If you notice the 1972 book shows that 397868 only applies to 1967 330s with cruise control. The guide tube is the same, only the indicator (dipstick) changes for that application, so the part inside the guide tube (and thus the level markings) must be exactly the same. Likely stock of the older 384999 part was depleted and 397868 was issued as a superceded number for those applications. You could trace this if you had access to the supercession pages. The parts book is only intended to show parts that are functionally equivalent if there is a supercession - it does not mean that the replacement P/N is "correct" for a 1000 point restoration. Your 1975 parts book likely shows "J" heads for all non-performance BBO applications, and K heads for all W-30 applications. This doesn't make them "correct".
Joe, I'm looking at this as a learning opportunity! I've also got a November 1979 publication that agrees with the 1975. Here's the page scanned. How do we best read this? Consider both as valid numbers?
You replied while I was messing with the scanner. So both will work (function) but for a restoration to be as correct as possible a person would need the earlier number, correct?
Joe, I'm looking at this as a learning opportunity! I've also got a November 1979 publication that agrees with the 1975. Here's the page scanned. How do we best read this? Consider both as valid numbers?
Well, the first thing to note is that the 384999 part number was superceded sometime between Jan 1972 and June 1975. The newer part number is not "valid" if by valid you mean correct for a restoration. It only means that the 397868 dipstick will function correctly for the purpose of gauging oil level in that 330. Now, I seriously doubt that someone could tell whether or not the correct dipstick was installed in a given motor unless you had the two side-by-side, but this does point out the problem with relying on a parts book to determine "correctness". The parts books were updated with each printing to delete parts that were no longer available. If the stock of a part was depleted, Olds tried to supercede the part with one that was still available and would function correctly. This is why "J" heads are shown in later parts books as being applicable for 1965-67 425 motors, for example. I wouldn't call these "valid", but in the late 1970s, if you needed a brand new head for your 425, the "J" was the only casting available. If you want to know the "correct" P/N installed on the assembly line, you need to look at the PIM - and even those drawings were updated over the model year, as evidenced by the notes and revisions.
You replied while I was messing with the scanner. So both will work (function) but for a restoration to be as correct as possible a person would need the earlier number, correct?
For some reason your scanned image isn't displaying - at least not on my browser. Interestingly, when I quoted your prior post, the scan showed up in the quoted text, but then did not display when I posted it.
The numbers Joe listed match the ones in my parts catalog dated September 1966
In that catalog 397868 is listed as 1967 F85 with cruise control, so I checked my parts history catalog and sure enough 384999 was superseded to 397868 dec of 1973.
397868 was 12 cents dealer cost in 73.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all this Joe. Twice I have tried to look something up in these books that I had in the garage. The numbers didn't match... and I didn't know why. Now I do. So these reference books I considered "treasure" may not be as helpful as I thought to reference "correct for restoration" part numbers. Not sure why the scan didn't show up, its a .jpeg but just for grins I'll attach it again here and see if it does.
So these reference books I considered "treasure" may not be as helpful as I thought to reference "correct for restoration" part numbers.
Unfortunately, that is correct. As Nicks1966 showed above, you need to use a parts book printed as close as possible to the model year you are researching. The data becomes less and less reliable as the printing date gets further away. There's an Aug 1983 printing of the parts book that supposedly covers 1964-1975. It's pretty much worthless.
I thank you all for this information. Here is my dillema. I have an NOS guide in whats left of its NOS package that shows part number 389374 which I would like to keep if it's correct for my engine.
The other part of my dilemma is the indicator (dip stick) in my 66 Cutlass 330 is marked 390378. Most dip sticks I have encountered in my life are flexible and easily fit in the guide. This dip stick does but it aint easy because the stick is made with a curve on the blade "ala sabre".
Is the guide correct for my enging and is the 390378 dipstick also correct. What do you all think of my conondrum?
Thanks
Wayne
I thank you all for this information. Here is my dillema. I have an NOS guide in whats left of its NOS package that shows part number 389374 which I would like to keep if it's correct for my engine.
The other part of my dilemma is the indicator (dip stick) in my 66 Cutlass 330 is marked 390378. Most dip sticks I have encountered in my life are flexible and easily fit in the guide. This dip stick does but it aint easy because the stick is made with a curve on the blade "ala sabre".
Is the guide correct for my enging and is the 390378 dipstick also correct. What do you all think of my conondrum?
Thanks
Wayne
The sticks(indicators) are straight when new,they get the "bend" over time.
Is the guide correct for my enging and is the 390378 dipstick also correct. What do you all think of my conondrum?
I think you need to go back and re-read post #2. Then LOOK at the pages I posted from the parts book. 390378 is for a 1966-67 Toronado. Not even close to being correct.
I think you need to go back and re-read post #2. Then LOOK at the pages I posted from the parts book. 390378 is for a 1966-67 Toronado. Not even close to being correct.
Got it Joe. I must have misunderstood 384999 for indicator and 389374 is the correct guide. Is the indicator commonly marked with the part number? Thanks everybody for the healthy discussion.
Wayne
On another guide/indicator fyi. In 66 I have seen 2 different indicators with the same part # for the 442/400 engine. One has a short handle and the other a longer handle. I think the reason for that was the short handle unit was hard to get to and they made the handle longer for easier accessibility.
Thanks Mike. I have a list of parts wanted that I check on. The dip stick I have works but just looking for the right one. Another lesson about part numbers.
Thanks
Wayne
April 15th, 2018, 11:22 AM
