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Well my beloved Olds has been dwindling on power and leaking and consuming oil for the last couple of years. She is my therapy and daily driver at home (I travel for work). Last night she overheated, badly, and it is time for the rebuild that I've been putting off:
I need nothing more than she has given me for the last 20 years and is too loved to ever be concourse or a trailer queen. Kids in college dictate the budget, but I have to treat her right. Stock with a little more cam would be great.
I live in central Florida and need a builder or machine shop.
One key thing to keep in mind is the common cast replacement pistons have HUGE 24cc dishes and are short on compression height, so you would end up with around 7.x:1 compression ratio with them. Mark has some new pistons that are much better in just about every aspect.
One key thing to keep in mind is the common cast replacement pistons have HUGE 24cc dishes and are short on compression height, so you would end up with around 7.x:1 compression ratio with them. Mark has some new pistons that are much better in just about every aspect.
Mark's a great guy with loads of Oldsmobile (and other's) real world experience. Outstanding communication skills and always a positive attitude. Quick to return calls and emails, never out of touch. Was a great help and patient with me throughout my rebuild. Honest to a fault, he quite often gave on his side, to make it easier dollar wise, for me. Hope to meet him in person someday.
Have always loved this site and the info available here. Thanks.
I've gleaned a lot and am sorry I have not had more to contribute. My love affair with my Cutlass is based on driving her alot and rarely having to work on her.
Pulled the motor and will start the disassembly next week when the Christmas festivities slow down and I can make some room in the shop. I'll try to post some info and pics once I find out what I have. I definitely lost head gasket.
I don't want a race build. I want reliable and long lasting. I don't want to sacrifice drive-ability or fuel economy. I'm happy to open the hood and have it look like GM planned it. This is literally my everyday driver and grocery getter.
Lots of pondering backed up with a little research and a great conversation with Mark (cutlassefi, thank you!) I'm glad he is only 90 minutes away and hope to pick up my parts in person.
I think a little modernizing is a good idea:
- So the Mahle Motorsports piston set up sounds good.
- Obviously have to do the heads, planning on SS valves, big as I can fit with hardened seats. Sizes?
- Mark recommends a Custom Hyd roller cam, lifters, and cam button. Can I save some money here and still get results with conventional lifters?
- If a new intake is recommended, that's okay, as long as I can paint it gold and keep it under the hood. I'm guessing an Edelbrock 7111 is the choice if anyone has one for sale?
Here is where I get concerned:
- I'm really fond of the reliability of my Quadrajet and don't want to lose that. Where will I have to go with the carburetor with these changes ?
- Really don't want massive headers or headers at all if I can avoid it. Is there an Olds exhaust manifold I can source that breaths better ?
I've never rebuilt an Olds motor. I have lots of rebuilds under my belt, everything from minibikes to Aircraft. Many small block Chevys included. But.....I'm not sure that I understand how things work without adjustable valves, especially when I make a cam change.
The biggest valve sizes worth putting in are 2.07"/1.625". The roller cam has many advantages over the flat tappet, fuel economy, power with good manners and no break in failures. I got a custom flat tappet cam for my 350, I will be going roller next time. Those Mahle pistons should also help in the fuel economy department, not just the power department, less friction with the ultra thin ring pack. Follow Mark's advice, he won't steer you wrong.
Keep the QuadraJet carburetor. It may need some slight tuning with different jets and rods, depending upon the engine build, but that is not difficult and may not even be necessary.
The factory exhaust manifolds can be retained but may cost a bit of power compared to headers, but since this isn't an all out performance build it should be OK.
You can just cap the extra outlet. Pypes even has down pipes and dual exhaust for your car. I would at least add true dual exhaust. Talk to Ken at Everyday Performance for a custom Qjet tune. His rebuilds include base plate rebushing and optional colouring and plating are quite affordable. It cost me less with a custom tune with the secondary rebushed and no colouring or plating then a 750 Street Demon with the 2004R TV bracket with my supplied 800 cfm core. I believe he has $50 lifetime retune available as well.
Thanks guys! Appreciate the opinions and advice, keep it coming.
I intend to take Marks advice and follow it as much as I can afford. Trying to determine most bang for my buck and I'm also hoping to discuss and document it so more can learn.
My budget is constrained by 3 more years of college payments for my kids, but I'm itching to get my convertible back on the road. Has been a week without her and I'm having withdrawals.
I'll get SS 2.07"/1.625" valves when I take the heads in next week.
Multi angle valve job and hardened seats, any other considerations ?
@cutlassefi- ?
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
You can just cap the extra outlet..
What extra outlet?
I really like my current custom exhaust, and it's sound. Plain old 2.5 inch dual exhaust without a crossover. Hoping there is a GM exhaust manifold that will breath better to connect to it. Am I dreaming there?
I probably need to make a radiator decision as well. I dumped radiator fluid a couple times recently.
Originally Posted by mikejana
My love affair with my Cutlass is based on driving her alot and rarely having to work on her.
Sorry the exhaust manifold, obviously already capped. Hardened seats aren't necessary but get them to use a bowl hog under the valves to open the bowls. Thornton makes these manifolds. https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...5AMr07A-Pv3zy_
I have 2 kids in University as well.
@olds 307 and 403-
That manifold is a game changer for my plans-
I did not want to make the visual change to headers and that was limiting my build based on that.
Thanks
Okay, motor is being disassembled. Pretty ugly inside. I'm embarrassed, but I'll share anyway with the Caveat- "I haven't had her since new"
The intake manifold is a very rusty mess. I'm in search of an Edelbrock, 7111 if anyone has.....
Here are the castings on my heads, are these adequate for the build? pretty sure they are originals, I'm dropping them at the cylinder head guy tomorrow:
and just for kicks, here is my body tag:
I believe it deciphers as:
72 3=Olds
42=Cutlass S
67= conv
LANsing,
970= I don't know & can't find,
65=Flame Orange,
B=? Black conv top? Bummer, because I like it white.
05B May 2nd week
A65 Bench seat I believe, White I hope?
Those are as good as any 350 head. Follow Mark's advice first and foremost. Go with regular replacement retainers, springs to match the cam, good multi angle valve job, new guides, machine the guide tops for positive valve seals and get them to open under the valve with a bowl hog. That along with a clean up mill on the deck surface is a good start. Welding the center exhaust divider and filling the center heated crossover with aluminum or zinc is an option as well. I assume you will be using Mark's guy for a machine shop? If not, make sure they know to increase the clearance on the center exhaust guides a couple of thousandths extra. Quite a few have stuck valves from shops unfamiliar with factory Olds V8 heads.
Mark will not steer you wrong, and he will make appropriate suggestions for your build. Further, he make recommendations for machine shops in area since you are in Florida. About your heads, I wouldn't install the "biggest" valve available, but what size is correct for your build. Is pocketing porting worth the expense for your build? Do you need a light weight pistons for your build? It's very easy to enter MAW's in an engine build. Good luck with your build and I look forward to continue reading your thread.
Thanks, I'm definitely following Mark's advice and also set on the new Mahle pistons.
I'm not sure that I can afford mark's machine shop, but trying. If I can find a few used parts (manifolds & such) I'll try to make that work. All the machinist I've used have retired.
Mark has a different Machinist for cylinder heads. I have a good cylinder head guy, so I'll use him.
Update, parts are all disassembled and delivered.
Heads with my guy, everything else with cutlessfi's guy in Jacksonville for the machine work. Thanks for the help Mark!
Seems like the nylon timing gear finally gave out and caused my problems.
Well the good thing is no one had ever been inside your engine. What did the cam and lifters look like after all the grunge was removed. You probably had a another 100 miles on the timing set...
The cam had some wear, but the lifters did not look so bad. The pushrods looked bad.
I did not have another 100 yards on that timing set. She was done.
Pretty close to what my '72 (also a ragtop) 53k+ mile 350 looked like when I tore it down for rebuild, even as it ran great as it was. Cleaned up well though. Definitely try to plan ahead for your mods/upgrades so you can source the best part prices up front wherever possible - nothing like a last-minute change to run your costs way up
Last edited by 70sgeek; January 10th, 2018 at 06:55 PM.
Pretty close to what my '72 (also a ragtop) 53k+ mile 350 looked like when I tore it down for rebuild, even as it ran great as it was. Cleaned up well though. Definitely try to plan ahead for your mods/upgrades so you can source the best part prices up front wherever possible - nothing like a last-minute change to run your costs way up
Yes, agreed. Mine got 98,000 miles over 46 years. Even though it was unexpected, I can't really complain. She deserves "some nice things".
Trying to make a decision now on exhaust. I really did not want headers, and I'm not sure the Thorton exhaust manifolds will make much of a difference. Thoughts?
From what I've read I don't get the impression Thorntons make much of a difference - they seem to be a slightly cleaner version of the stock manifolds, great if your originals are too crusty or damaged to reuse (or if you want to at least replace your original right side manifold with one that won't require its crossover plugged if you convert to duals. I had a good local shop here bend a set of 2.25" stainless duals from scratch and install Flowmaster 40's. great idle rumble but quiets fairly well at speed (definitely a plus for my preferred topless cruising habits! Reused my stock exhaust manifolds but might switch to Thorntons someday if I have any free cash and no other impending projects to finish first. As to parts, get the best internals you can afford, too costly to have to do something over twice 'cuz you went too cheap.. Look online for coupon/discount codes, free shipping deals, etc to save $$ JC Whitney, Summit/Jegs, even Ebay can be your friend... As a barometer, I've got $5k+ in my motor build, all A-list name brand parts. Price-shopped like hell all over the internet for the best deals and saved a huge chunk by the end of it all...
Last edited by 70sgeek; January 11th, 2018 at 03:26 PM.
December 18th, 2017, 06:30 AM
