elpresidente

It appears so to me but not as pronounced as I would have expected but, then again, I don't know what an oil drain hole looks like. This is what I'm looking at.

I was chatting with my mechanic about it and he suggested pouring water in the intake of the head and see if there is leakage at the valve. Thought?

Also, here is the timing chain. Quite loose.

elpresidente

Would a stuck lifter cause zero compression? It was awful gunked up on that side of the valley.

MDchanic

Timing chain looks shot, surprisingly the gear does not.

That space between the cylinders does look suspicious for a head gasket leak.

I would test the valves with something like gasoline, kerosene, denatured alcohol, or lacquer thinner - water has a lot of surface tension and might not ooze through a very small opening.

- Eric

Seff

My gears looked less worn than that, and my chain was twice as slack.

elpresidente

I did pour some gas into the intake on the head last night but, to be honest, I couldn't tell if I had overpured, spilled or if gas leaked past the valves. I guess I'll take another crack at it tonight.

As for the timing chain, Chilton's refers to a key to remove the sprocket or gear. I see the location of what it refers to but am unclear as to what tool is best and exactly what the process is. I've done some googling and searching on CO but no good hints so far. I'm sure it's something simple. I just want to make sure I do it right, so as not to damage anything.

elpresidente

Ok, so I've read through most of the "Pulling the motor" thread ... oh my, I really had no clue what I was getting myself into. There's no turning back now.

So I'm going to finish dis-assembly this weekend. I still need to find a machine shop I can hopefully trust and get some prices so I can solidify my plan. So far, I'm thinking hot tank and magnaflux everything, cylinder hone and block decking with bearing installation, etc. and heads milled, piston rings (can I use these?), lifters, maybe a cam depending on wear and cost, new timing set. I think that covers most of what I view as a priority. Hopefully someone will point me in the right direction if I've put together a plan that is not realistic or even doesn't makes sense. I'm obviously completely new to this. I do plan on continually referring to the Pulling the Motor thread.

Lars

build your motor on paper first, do the math... all the numbers need to add up. theres a few machinist in Wisconsin that specialize in olds. I'm sure theres some in your area, start calling them all and feeling them out. start looking for basic parts on the message boards.

Octania

Well hell the local boneyard intakes are on 7A head engines, so they will be the small port A5 intake.

I do have a spare A4 on hand
I will call you to arrange a meeting
Since you are right nearby for work anyhow in Okemos, it should be easy.

Rings
$22-$65 [moly] a set at http://www.rockauto.com/

olds 307 and 403

Expect an overbore and new pistons. I would get the 6cc Speed Pro forged for a street build. There are also expensive CP pistons that only require a proper hone to install. They are small dish and will give high compression. Same problem with Probe diamond forged pistons. Good part about them over the Speed Pro forged, is thin, modern ring packs. Don't buy cheap cast pistons, unless you want really low compression.

elpresidente

So I was able to get the timing chain removed and starting cleaning up the valve train parts. I expect to be told that I need to buy all new parts for the valve train. I am planning on lifters for sure but I am wondering if these parts can be reused for a short time, say 2-3 months, and replaced then. Would there be any damage caused elsewhere in the engine?

MDchanic

Some of the places that are supposed to be shiny are rusty, which won't help longevity much, but it'll run for a while.

That picture of the valve doesn't show the sealing surface, so it's impossible to see how worn it is.

Does that valve guide have a bronze sleeve, or is that just an optical illusion?

- Eric

elpresidente

Time for an update. I more or less took last week off from anything engine related. To end the week, however, Octania (Rocket Science) was gracious enough to welcome me at his home and share some of his mountain of knowledge (as well as parts and tools) with me. RS is a great guy and a great resource. He was generous enough to lend me a ring remover/installer and a ring groove cleaner. I plan on using those this weekend.

So, with RS helping to inspire me, and after I took time this weekend to clean and rearrange my garage space, I took tool to engine once again. This time, I was able to finish the heads disassembly and remove the pistons and the crankshaft. I am planning getting some plastigage this weekend to see where I am with the rod and main bearing (cam bearing I plan on replacing).

I also have been able to get some prices re machine work and my current plan is to finish the block tear down and take it along with the heads in for cleaning and checking, then proceed from there, depending on what we find.

Octania

Thanks for your kind review!

That looks like an EASY re-ring and re-bearing with moderately costly valve job rebuild to me. New cam and lifters.

I can find all kinds of better condition used rockers, pushrods, etc.
Save your old pushrods to verify correct length.
I can give you a free barely-used timing set.

Your valves look like a run past the wire brush and the valve job will revive them. As long as the stems are not too worn.

The block looks pretty good
The crank looks great.

Octania

Update?
Looks like an easy rebuild?
I have lots of not rusted, easily reusable stuff like rocker arms and pushrods, if you really need to keep the lid on the costs for this rebuild.

elpresidente

I do and that would be great. I was going to check the rod and main bearing clearances today but got sidetracked (mostly by a nap ). I will do that in the morning. I am trying to figure out how to allocate/set aside/raise enough money to get this completed - close to getting that finalized. So...I plan on completing the tear down by Tuesday and then getting the block and the heads cleaned and magnafluxed. Hopefully, there won't be any unexpected issues.

Features for my planned budget rebuild.
- block honed
- pistons re-ringed
- new cam and lifters
- valve job and heads milled
- thin stamped steel head gaskets
- new (almost) timing set (thanks RS!)
- new or used pushrods and rocker arms
- alum intake

My goal is to come in under $1000 total for parts and machine work. It looks possible, depending on how many valve seats and guides can be reused.

billmerbach

I have some #6 heads that may not need to be worked if you got want them gimme a few days to finalize a few things before I say for sure you can have them lol

billmerbach

I also have pish rods and lifters lifters are new pushrods used and I have oil pump I have master gasket set I have it all except 2 parts lmk I can save you a lot as most my parts are new but I need to finalize a few things first before I say yes you can get whatever you need

elpresidente

Bill, that would be incredible! Thanks so much for the offer. I'll send you a PM in a few days to see if you have things figured out.

Such an awesome community here.

billmerbach

Well so far so good I'm just waiting on a response to see if the engine I'll be getting will run I need to sell my parts to pay this off so its looking good I have a remanned crank as well send me a pm things are looking good I'll know for sure real soon

billmerbach

Left a very urgent pm I think you'll like it

Lars

I gots some 30 over badger pistons on rods you can have for the cost of shipping, (if needed) and some 10 under rod bearings for 40 shipped. that was the krustyiest motor ive ever seen!


I would consider ZERO decking the block, that cost makes up for the expencive head gaskets you wont need to keep compression. And you get a new surface

elpresidente

Thanks Lars. I'm finishing the tear down tonight after I check the main and rod bearings. An extended bathroom remodel and family over this weekend has put me behind schedule but I plan to get the block and heads to a shop this week. After that I should know if I can just hone the cylinders, which I expect or if I'll need to bore them out, in which case I will need the pistons.

Would you mind expaining exactly what zero decking the block would do? It might be a good way to go since I can get felpro gaskets in a kit and would be able to save the cost of the thin stamped. I'm not sure what is the best route to go there.

Octania

That's where the machine shop cuts the deck surface- where your head gasket goes. The pistons are typically 20-40 thousandths of an inch below that surface, to ensure that none of them ever hit the head under normal operation. Some clearance. The head does cover right across part of where the piston is.... So, what you [the shop] may opt to do is assemble the crank and rods and pistons, measure every piston to deck figure, then cut the block down to just [or almost] the top of the highest piston. Then you rely on the 0.040" thick head gasket to ensure that the piston never touches the head. The lowest piston will typically be a few thousandths of an inch below the highest, so it's safe from head contact, just has a teensy bit less compression than the highest piston. Just watch that your total movement of the head- cutting the block, changing the gasket, and surfacing the head- does not move the head so far that the intake bolts can't be put in. In my limited experience, that figure is around 0.050-0.080" lower heads.


"that was the krustyiest motor ive ever seen!"
======================
Pshaw, that was nothing.
I had one that the block had to be broken away from the crank to salvage it.
One had rusted up from water getting in the carb due to a hole in the hood; it had fuzzy MOLD growing in it. Elpresidente's engine is a piece of cake.

elpresidente

Plastigage -So I am attempting to check the clearances on the main caps and the rods. I have green and red plastigage. I used the green on the main caps and installed the crank and torqued it down. Then I used the red for rod 1 and 2, getting a reading of .003 and .002 respectively. When I checked the haynes manual (I don't have a proper service manual yet), I can only find side clearance for total with both rods.

So, I plan on redoing the main caps because I turned the crank to attempt to plastigage rods 1 and 2, something I should have known not to do. My questions are should I being using green plastigage to check the main cap and rod clearances and what clearances should I look for; what are the tolerances?
TIA

MDchanic

According to the label on the package, green Plastigage measures from 0.001" to 0.003", while red Plastigage measures 0.002" to 0.006".
You use the Plastigage type that corresponds to the clearance range that you need to measure.

The Chassis Service Manual specifies bearing clearances as follows (note the number of zeros):

Main Bearings #1-4: 0.0005" - 0.0021"

Main Bearing #5: 0.0015" - 0.0031"

Rod Bearings: 0.0004" - 0.0033"

Note that essentially all of these clearances can be measured with Green, but Red will work in this range most of the time, as well.

In general, experienced Olds engine builders (of which I am not one) will tell you that wider clearances are better than narrower clearances, especially if the motor is going to be revved.

- Eric

elpresidente

Have some money now. I plan on getting the block, heads and crank to the machine shop this week to be cleaned and checked.

I'm seeing a #10 intake on CL for $50. Anybody have opinions on this intake?

Lars

Dont know about the #10 intake, it's probally iron=65 pounds, EGR smog TYP. see if ya can find an A4 aluminum 307 intake. should go well with your mild combo. Octainia has one i think, i have one i'de give ya if you came and got it.

Fun71

According to this, a #10 intake manifold is a typical 1970 350-4bbl iron intake (non-EGR, pre smog):

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rt-number.html

Other than the weight of the iron, should be a good manifold.

elpresidente

I picked up the #10 manifold, mostly for the non-EGRness of it. If I come across an aluminum A4, I may grab that too.

Thanks.

elpresidente

Taking the block, heads and crank to the shop later today. Getting very excited.

Funny thing is that in the meantime I have gotten this 307 running very nicely. Best it's ever ran. That's a good thing as I plan to keep it around. I am seeing air in the cooling system - oil looks good though. I may not have burped it properly (or at all) when I did the head gaskets this summer. I plan on doing a pressure test tomorrow and a proper burp.

Now to pull out that spreadsheet and start buying parts once I get news back from the machine shop.