1965cutlassragtop

so i just spoke to a rep at dick miller racing about the underdrive serpentine pulley system. i asked about using them on a 330 without A/C. they said i can use my factory accessory brackets, but i would need to either get the water pump spacer (to align the water pump pulley with all the other pulleys) or buy a long water pump for A/C applications. he told me i do not need a reverse direction water pump, and that it is a true 1 belt serpentine system with 20% underdrive. it comes with installation directions, belt routing diagram, and the tensioner (which i will need)

i have read some old threads with doubts and questions about this system, but it seems pretty simple and ready to bolt on. sounds like a better (cheaper) option than the mondello setup, though it isn't polished. here is the breakdown:


water pump, long neck- $120 or so (or the spacer which is $25)

alt, crank, waterpump, power steering, and tension pulley- $545

belt- $20


but my question is, will any olds water pump work on my engine, as far as the mounting bolts?? i understand the difference between the long/short pumps...but every olds water pump looks the same to me?? i am thinking about just springing the cash and getting a polished long water pump, but can't seem to find one for my exact year and engine. are there other years that will work?? can anyone give me a link which shows the one i need?? i would appreciate it, thanks!!

GAOldsman

Have you looked into March Performance? I don't know the cost right off, but usually a little less expensive than others. As far as your question,
BASIC INTERCHANGE
Modern Olds V8 engines displacing 260, 307, 330, 350, and 403 inches are considered to be small-blocks. Big-blocks displace 400, 425, or 455 cubic inches. The small-block motors are 1-inch shorter in height and 1-1/2 inches narrower than the big-blocks. If the engine's original factory paint is still intact a small-block will be gold or blue, while the big-blocks can be red, green, blue or bronze. Late-model 307's are flat black. You can also identify engines by casting letters and numbers.
While exceptions will be noted below, as a general rule the following parts are physically interchangeable among all "modern" Olds V8 engines: flexplate and flywheel, engine mounts, oil pan, front cover, water pump, bellhousing (also interchanges with modern Buick,and Pontiac), oil pump, oil pump driveshaft, rocker arms and fulcrum (except early 330), camshaft and lifters (except for different lifter bank angles and lifter diameters; see below), harmonic balancer, cam bearings, timing chains and timing gears. Heads will basically interchange, except manifold ports may not align.

I hope this helps.
Scot

1965cutlassragtop

that did help...thank you!! so basically any olds v8 waterpump will work, big block or small block, doesn't matter. that's what i wanted to know. i recently used the wrong bolts to attach the fan and pulley to my existing water pump, and i believe the thread was wrong, which is why i'm thinking of just going with a polished long water pump instead of the spacer.

as far as the march....i feel like those systems should only be used on trailor queens, not drivers. the dick miller pulleys are not as "flamboyant" as the march system. although i like the march system, i just don't think it's right for my application. and i heard that system is about $1200, which is more than the mondello setup which i would prefer.

slowdime

what are you trying to accomplish?
there really is no benefit to having a serpentine setup

1965cutlassragtop

well i think it is in the eye of the beholder....

mostly looks, but i understand they free up a bit of horsepower.

442garage

Something to think about! Joe can confirm, but I don't believe Oldsmobile made a reverse flow water pump. Most of these Serpentine Belt systems require that you have one, and the reason why is: the belt is routed differently. Basically, if the back of the serpentine belt travels around the water pump pulley you would require a reverse water pump.

1965cutlassragtop

There is a deisel water pump that supposedly works, but I specifically asked the rep at dick miller about that, and he said I absolutely do not need a reverse flow water pump to use this serpentine pulley system. It works with the factory accessory brackets, and factory water pump. Everything supposedly lines up perfectly as long as u have the long neck water pump or pulley spacer.

442garage

Well, it sounds like a purchase of a serpentine pulley system from Dick Miller is in your near future. Good Luck!

1965cutlassragtop

I have a bunch of things I plan to do, so I'm just researching all options and seeing what project takes priority in the big picture. For instance, I will wait until I pull the rear end this fall for a rebuild with an Eaton Posi and lower gears to install the rear traction system. This way I'm not doing things twice. I have some things in mind for under the hood as well, and upgrading the factory pulleys and accessories are on list:-). Sounds like this setup would run me about $700 including a polished long neck

joe_padavano

A couple of points.

First, yes, the diesel V6 water pump IS reverse rotation and bolts to any 64-90 Olds block. You can get Cardone P/N 58296 for about $22 from Rockauto:



Second, a belt drive system that does not use a reverse rotation water pump is not a true serpentine system. Serpentine, by definition, means "like a serpent". This comes from the belt snaking around the crank pulley and the reverse-rotation water pump pulley.



Systems that don't use a reverse rotation water pump are forced instead to use a boatload of idler pulleys that force the belt against the water pump pulley. Since the belt only contacts the water pump pulley for a small fraction of the total circumference, the lack of contact area must be replaced by a higher tension load to get the same force transfer from the belt to the pulley. That means that these ersatz "serpentine" systems actually induce MORE friction into the belt drive than the stock V-belts. Your money, your call if the looks are what you want.

joe_padavano

Just for completeness, here's a true serpentine system on an Olds motor. Note the reverse rotation diesel V6 water pump and the fabricated bracket for the tensioner. This particular conversion is sold for the GMC motorhomes and is priced in the four figures (and the vendor thinks the water pump is a big secret and won't tell you where it comes from). Seems to me that someone who knows how to weld could duplicate it for under $100.

1965cutlassragtop

I've seen a diagram that shows crank, water pump, power steering, and alternator pulleys. In that diagram's routing, the belt goes around the water pump pulley on the opposite side that your picture shows, with no tensioner. But, the guy a dick miller said I would need the tensioner, and that it mounted between the alternator and crank on the lower passenger side. And again, he said I would not need a reverse rotation water pump for their system.