Cam movement (walking?)
February 8th, 2011, 10:07 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Cam movement (walking?)
I just swapped the timing chain in my 330 and I noticed the cam is moving. forward and back.
The chain was so loose that the cam was off by about 1 degree or so. not enough to worry about valve to piston contact but the cam does seem to be "walking"
Now I checked this with the timing cover off. The lifters don't seem to be comming off the cam journals (at least from what I can see back around #5 and 6)
What causes this and how do you fix it?
The chain was so loose that the cam was off by about 1 degree or so. not enough to worry about valve to piston contact but the cam does seem to be "walking"
Now I checked this with the timing cover off. The lifters don't seem to be comming off the cam journals (at least from what I can see back around #5 and 6)
What causes this and how do you fix it?
February 9th, 2011, 03:43 AM
#2
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,301
I just swapped the timing chain in my 330 and I noticed the cam is moving. forward and back.
The chain was so loose that the cam was off by about 1 degree or so. not enough to worry about valve to piston contact but the cam does seem to be "walking"
Now I checked this with the timing cover off. The lifters don't seem to be comming off the cam journals (at least from what I can see back around #5 and 6)
What causes this and how do you fix it?
The chain was so loose that the cam was off by about 1 degree or so. not enough to worry about valve to piston contact but the cam does seem to be "walking"
Now I checked this with the timing cover off. The lifters don't seem to be comming off the cam journals (at least from what I can see back around #5 and 6)
What causes this and how do you fix it?
February 9th, 2011, 07:34 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
This isn't what I need?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/225/10002/-1
and
http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/224/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/225/10002/-1
and
http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/224/10002/-1
February 9th, 2011, 07:52 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Posts: 492
only if you have a roller cam. flat tappet cams are ground with a slight taper on the lobes. this taper makes the cam walk to the rear of the block. roller cams are ground flat so the roller rides properly so there is nothing to keep the cam in place. NO factory motors with flat tappet cam ever ran a retainer or button. in most cases you have to machine the block for the bearings and washer to fit properly. my advice is quite over thinking things.
February 10th, 2011, 04:03 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cheboygan, Michigan
Posts: 126
My engine builder is maching my block for cloyes bearing # clo-9-220 , which is what Biill Trovolta outlines in his book " Building High Performance Olds Engines ".
I will still run the brass button on the cam bolt as I don't think a bearing on the cam bolt is needed since I am running a solid flat tappet and not a roller which would thrust the cam forward under load according to my info.
I used to use a mondello brass washer at the block since it was wore last time I switched cams and that seemed to have helped , but I think the bearing will be better.
Bill Trovolta book was released a few months ago and is very informative.
I will still run the brass button on the cam bolt as I don't think a bearing on the cam bolt is needed since I am running a solid flat tappet and not a roller which would thrust the cam forward under load according to my info.
I used to use a mondello brass washer at the block since it was wore last time I switched cams and that seemed to have helped , but I think the bearing will be better.
Bill Trovolta book was released a few months ago and is very informative.
Last edited by tonycpe; February 10th, 2011 at 04:06 PM. Reason: add , spelling
May 10th, 2011, 08:10 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Do I have to buy this for piece of mind? To install it, is it more involved than removing the timing gears, then the cam bolt, then reinstalling everything?
Camshaft Thrust Button Kit
DMR-5745 Camshaft thrust button kit. Includes DMR-5740 cam bolt and bronze button, DMR-5120 cam spacer, and DMR-5040 crank spacer.
DMR-5040 Crankshaft timing gear spacer. .040 steel spacer. This spacer slides onto the crankshaft and then you install the timing gear. Corrects timing chain alignment when using DMR-5120 camshaft spacer.
DMR-5120 Bronze cam spacer .041 thick. To prevent or correct worn blocks caused by camshaft moving back and forth in block. To be used with DMR-5740 thrust button. DMR-5040 crank spacer recommended.
DMR-5740 Camshaft thrust button bolt. Stops camshaft from moving back and forth in engine, giving perfect valve timing and greater timing chain life. Includes new cam bolt and bronze button. Fits all 64-84 except diesel. DMR-5120 cam spacer is required and DMR-5040 crank spacer is recommended. If necessary, file the front of the cam bolt (not the bronze button) to achieve .004 to .005 clearance (end play) from the front cover.
Select Item at View Cart.
$56.00
DMR-5745 Camshaft thrust button kit. Includes DMR-5740 cam bolt and bronze button, DMR-5120 cam spacer, and DMR-5040 crank spacer.
DMR-5040 Crankshaft timing gear spacer. .040 steel spacer. This spacer slides onto the crankshaft and then you install the timing gear. Corrects timing chain alignment when using DMR-5120 camshaft spacer.
DMR-5120 Bronze cam spacer .041 thick. To prevent or correct worn blocks caused by camshaft moving back and forth in block. To be used with DMR-5740 thrust button. DMR-5040 crank spacer recommended.
DMR-5740 Camshaft thrust button bolt. Stops camshaft from moving back and forth in engine, giving perfect valve timing and greater timing chain life. Includes new cam bolt and bronze button. Fits all 64-84 except diesel. DMR-5120 cam spacer is required and DMR-5040 crank spacer is recommended. If necessary, file the front of the cam bolt (not the bronze button) to achieve .004 to .005 clearance (end play) from the front cover.
Select Item at View Cart.
$56.00
May 10th, 2011, 09:28 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
The bronze cam spacer goes at the back of the block, it gives the cam a smooth surface to ride against. You will have to remove the cam to install it.
The steel Crankshaft spacer slips onto the end of the crank to make the crankshaft timing gear match up to the now .041" further forward camshaft timing gear.
Once installed, the fuel pump eccentric and new bushing bolt are installed into the front of the camshaft.
Take a straight edge and lay it across the timing cover surface and measure between the straight edge and the bronze bushing on the cam bolt. Clearance should be .004-.005" with the timing cover gasket in place or .001" clearance without the gasket.
**Either way, it's more work than just pulling the timing gear.
May 11th, 2011, 03:18 AM
#11
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Millions of these engines have suffered no ill effects from cam endplay in the nearly fifty years since 1964.
What makes you think that yours is so special that this non-problem needs to be "corrected?"
You can use your hard-earned money and your too-short time on this Earth any way you want to, but the potential for incidentally screwing something else up in the course of this "repair" is far greater than with other non-functional modifications, like chrome valve covers, and, unless you are running a race motor, the benefits should be roughly zero.
For me, this falls into the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.
- Eric
What makes you think that yours is so special that this non-problem needs to be "corrected?"
You can use your hard-earned money and your too-short time on this Earth any way you want to, but the potential for incidentally screwing something else up in the course of this "repair" is far greater than with other non-functional modifications, like chrome valve covers, and, unless you are running a race motor, the benefits should be roughly zero.
For me, this falls into the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.
- Eric
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