dlevenseller

Hello, I sure hope someone can help steer me in the right direction. My son bought an 86 Cutlass Brougham last spring. The motor is supposed to be a 74 olds 350 with Rocket heads. The car was running good but he decided to get the carb rebuilt for better starts in the winter.

He took it to one of the best places in town and had it rebuilt. Since getting it back and installing it, it runs terrible. In order to start and keep it running you have to feather the accelerator constantly. It won’t stay running by itself.

He took the carb back and had it checked out again and everything seemed fine. We replaced the plugs, dist cap and rotor. I have no idea what can be wrong now.

Some people say to check the timing but how can the timing be off by fixing the carb? I know before taking it off, we noticed that some lines for the carb were missing. It was never hooked up to the EGR.

I have a little bit of experience working on Chevy motors but none on Olds. I know the dist turns in the opposite direction. Does it time the same as a Chevy motor (put the clamp on #1 plug)?

Any help would be greatlt appreciated, even guesses. I'm willing to try just about anything at this point.

Thank you

AZ455

What does it idle at? If you have to feather the accelerator to keep it running, it sounds like the idle is very low, as long as it seems to run smooth otherwise. Does it start easy?

The inductive clamp from the timing light does go on the #1 plug.

oldcutlass

Did you reset your choke?? If the problem started with the carb, I would say the problem is with the carb! Check your idle sppeed and did you readjust the idle mixture scews?

dlevenseller

The car will not start or run without feathering the accelerator. As soon as you release it, the car dies.

I did not reset the choke or change anything. The person that rebuilt it said everything should be set fine and we should just be able to install it and go. I don't even know how to se the choke. We did play with something on the side that had a dial for rich and lean. It didn't seem to make any difference.

I know I'm not very helpfull but this is my first carb.

Redog

I'm thinking choke as well.

Without starting the car, remove the air cleaner and look at the carb. The one plate should be opened just a hair.

I had the choke working backwards on me once. It would open all the way up when cold and slam shut when all warmed up.

Not fun pushing a 4000 lb car, up a slight hill, after it stalls at a traffic light, while people behind you just blow the horn, but then again that is the defintion of an *******

IDK how to set a choke either. I do know that a choke HAS TO BE set with the engine cold

Lady72nRob71

Since it ran fine before the carb rebuild, do not touch anything else unrelated now to avoid introducing new possible problems. Obviously the rebuild was not successful or some of your vacuum lines are misrouted, disconnected, or other possible air leak. Did you use a new carb mounting gasket?

dlevenseller

Thanks for the info. I'm wondering if it's the vacuum lines. The bad thing is we didn't take any pictures before the rebuild so I don't know where they were. We did use a new gasket.
When we got the carb back there was a fitting on the carb that didn't have a hose but it was clean so we know there was "something" there before. The rebuilder said it was for the EGR. The puzzleing thing is that the EGR was never hooked up before.
I wonder if we should just tow the car in to a shop and have them take a look at it.

Lady72nRob71

If that is a big connector for a 3/8" hose, it would be for the PCV hose. If that is off, the car will run as you describe. Been there done that.

dlevenseller

Here's the latest news. We're noy any closer to getting it running right. We took the car to a mechanic and he wouldn't even look at it because there wasn't a catalitic converter. The guy took the carb and went through it again, changed all the gaskets and needle valve. We checked the timing and it's pretty close if not right on.

One person I talked to said the 2 set screws (fuel and air) always have to be adjusted after a rebuild but the person that did the work said they should be right on.

Is there any type of diagram that shows which lines go where? At this point I'm willing to try just about anything.

The car still runs the exact same way it did when we got the carb back. You have to keep feathering the accelerator to keep it running. As soon as you let off, the car dies.

I'm open to any hints, guesses, feelings, a friend of a friend told you, anything!

Thanks

Lady72nRob71

Are all of the vac lines hooked up, like for the charcoal can and PCV valve?
Sounds like a big vac leak somewhere... Can you hear air being sucked aside from through the air horn?

Rickman48

Where are you?
There's a few guys,[including myself] that'd come and help for as little as gas money, if not for free.
One big happy family, are we!!

dlevenseller

All the lines look liked they're hooked up. Can't hear any air being sucked anywhere. That's what I thought the initial problem was. Originally there were some lines that weren't even hooked up. The fitting for the EGR on the carb is clean and I know it was never hooked up to the EGR valve (there wasn't even a hose). So I was wondering what it was hooked up to. The Carb rebuilder said it may have been capped.

Can we unhook lines (plug) and see if it makes a difference or do we run the risk of breaking something?

dlevenseller

I have a feeling there aren't many people close to me. I'm in Grand Forks, ND. I would gladly pay someone if they could get the car running. Right now just finding a mechanic to look at it is proving difficult.
I still think it's something simple that I'm overlooking. The only other thing would be something happened to the carb when it was rebuilt. I trust the person that did it, he's been doing carbs for over 30 years and everyone I talk to say's he's the best person in town.

Lady72nRob71

Unhooking and plugging vac lines will not break anything, but can cause it to run worse (or better if a leaky one is found).
This is bizarre... Car ran fine until after carb rebuild...
Is the fast idle speed screw set the same as before? Can you see the 3 different throttle openings as you run the screw along the steps of the fast idle cam? Choke plate closed on big step, partial choke on second step?

dlevenseller

I don't know if the fast idle is set the same. I know this sounds like a stupid question but which one is the choke plate? I would guess the smaller rectangle and not the bigger round ones.
When I was playing with it, the big one was completely shut. If I tried opening it at all, it got much worse.
I'll check the positions on the fast idle cam and see what happens.

Lady72nRob71

Not a stupid question - this is called learning!
The choke plates are the smaller, upper plates in the front.
The primary throttle plates are in front UNDER the choke plates.

The big rear sets of plates should not open unless you are past 3/4 throttle or so. These are the secondaries. Leave these alone, unless to check their adjustment. The guy who rebuilt it should have preadjusted the whole carb to the 1974 specs since this is the year of your engine/carb. The instructions come with the carb kit (usually). If he did not, then it needs adjustment checks done.

dlevenseller

Fast idle cam looked ok to me but I don't know for sure. My son did some calling around and was able to find someplace willing to look at it. We towed it in a little while ago.
I'll let you all know what we find out.

dlevenseller

Good update. Well, we got it sort of running. There's a problem with the choke. It keeps trying to open up then sucks too much air and dies. If I hold the butterfly closed then it runs. I tried adjusting to choke and seems to be better if moved way over to the "rich" side.

I was trying to check the timing since I was messing with it earlier and it seems to be WAY off. With the timing light on #1 cylinder the timing mark if way to advanced. It's way over on the passernger side of the car. If I try moving it closer to the timing plate the car sputters and dies.

Is it possible this is how the timing is supposed to be set? Could this be causing the choke problem? Could it be the previous owner did something and this is how it should be.

Lady72nRob71

My advice - do not mess with the timing until after the engine is idling smoothly on its own at normal operating temp. Otherwise you can introduce too many variables to work out.

IF you got it to idle after forcing the choke on, and it is at normal temp, pull the vac hose from the disty and plug it. Loosen the disty clamp just enough to where the disty can be moved with some effort. NOW start the engine and it will run rough but should keep going. Set the timing to whatever your year calls for in the manual or on the tuneup decal (same engine and year!)

Did the one who did the carb work assemble the carb right and adjust the choke pulloff?

When cold, depressing the gas pedal should close the choke completely and set the highest idle speed.
When engine starts, vacuum is applied to to the choke pulloff unit and the choke should open a small amount (this is the choke pulloff adjustment).
Depressing the pedal again will drop the idle speed to a lower fast idle speed.
As engine heats up, the shoke plates should slowly open and be fully open in 3-5 minutes or so.. At that time, the idle speed should drop to its lowest curb idle speed of 700 or so.

dlevenseller

Fixed!! We finally got it fixed. A BIG thank you to Rob and everyone else for sticking with me and offering advice. It was such a simple rookie mistake I'm embarrased to tell you what it was. There's a bracket near the back of the carb that is supposed to be mounted on TOP of the carb. When my son put it back on he had the bracket between the carb and the gasket. You guessed it, it was sucking air like crazy.
I still can't beleive we had 2 different friends a a local mechanic look at it and no one noticed. One thing for sure, I'll never forget to check that again.
Thanks again to Rob and everyone else that helped.

Lady72nRob71

GREAT! Glad you got her running again.
Heck, I wish one of us asked for a picture. Someone here would have noticed that right off the bat! Anyway, glad you found it and hope you are on the road now.
It sure sounded like a vacuum leak, and it was. Just a very obscure one...