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Assembling my Dyno mule. It’ll have a custom Crane Hyd roller, the new Molnar Rods and of course, the Mahle piston.
Ultimately at some point I’m sure it’ll have aluminum heads as well so just wondering what color I should paint it. Any ideas guys? (Red is my favorite color btw)
Thanks!!
Last edited by cutlassefi; November 21st, 2020 at 05:36 PM.
Reason: Delete
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,722
" No, they’re the same number on the other side"
Never seen that before. I'am not talking about the nubs. I,am talking about the placement of the heavy metal and the holes around it. I guess I just get fanatical when it comes to balancing. I would also like to see the counter weights bull nosed. Paint it blue.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; November 21st, 2020 at 05:16 PM.
Never seen that before. I'am not talking about the nubs. I,am talking about the placement of the heavy metal and the holes around it. I guess I just get fanatical when it comes to balancing. I would also like to see the counter weights bull nosed. Paint it blue.
Nice punctuation.
These are brand new rods from Molnar for SBO. Balance sheet came to 0, not sure how you can get any better than that.
I always thought the light grey color they painted the engines in the Penske cars was a good idea. Looked clean and a easy way to identify any leaks. My buddy always painters his engines black and has a heck of a time pinpointing the source of leaks. What is the first combo you plan on running with the mule?
Rods- As most know Scat was supposed to do a SBO Rod early on but then said they weren’t. So I contacted Molnar to do them. In the meantime Scat came back and said they were going to do a SBO Rod. However the Scat rod is not truly centered like a stock one, the Molnar is so I went with that one for my mule. This is the very first set made. Only down side is the Molnar is significantly more money but seems to be a high quality piece, with a proprietary ARP rod bolt while being a bit lighter than the Scat as well..
First combination will be iron headed, 9.4:1 with the cam listed(222/228@.050, .550/.550 lift). Heads are #5’s I believe with 2.00/1.62 valves, polished chambers and crossovers filled. I’ll post pics. Otherwise no other work. On top will be an RPM intake with a 750 Brawler carb.
Ultimately I plan on using this base combo to test a myriad of things, intakes, ignitions, rockers and anything else we can think of.
It’s internally balanced so I can also test balancers, plus it’ll help it live a bit longer.
Thanks.
Last edited by cutlassefi; November 22nd, 2020 at 07:23 AM.
Another example of how far off the bores are in these blocks sometimes. The dark area is the original factory chamfer. This block has been decked approx .016 and bored .043 but it still didn’t clean up that area. That’s how far off this was. This bore almost didn’t clean up at .043 over. Some people refer to this as “core shift”. It isn’t, it’s just poor machining. Food for thought.
So I assume the Molnar rods are also a direct fit for the SBO? Are they a lot more than the Scat rod? Are they readily available? Sounds like an interesting comparison of products.
Yes they are available now and are a direct fit. Price is about $625.00 or about $150.00 more than the Scats. But they do have the better ARP 2000 bolt, which is part of the price difference.
Ultimately I plan on using this base combo to test a myriad of things, intakes, ignitions, rockers and anything else we can think of.
My vote is a test between: Factory exhaust manifolds, Thorton shorty header, Sanderson shorty header, and a set of full length headers. All with some pipe and mufflers.
My vote is a test between: Factory exhaust manifolds, Thorton shorty header, Sanderson shorty header, and a set of full length headers. All with some pipe and mufflers.
I’ve already done Thornton’s vs full length headers, headers were worth over 30 everywhere. But I do want to do the other pieces mentioned.
I’ll be doing heads and a couple different intakes as well, one of which will have some mods to it that I’ve been wanting to do for awhile.
My vote is a test between: Factory exhaust manifolds, Thorton shorty header, Sanderson shorty header, and a set of full length headers. All with some pipe and mufflers.
Sorry but if full length headers always win no need to beat a dead horse. Anyone buying anything other than full length headers knows there is a compromise .
A simple one would be lifter preload. Engine masters did valve lash. I would be curious how much hp change or curve change happens incrementally from the typical . 040 all the way down to 0.
Another one would be intake alignment. Taking a port matched Intake vs one that has not been matched. Seeing how much power is lost between the 2.
An interesting one would be points, vs hei vs msd. Along with plug gaps.
Those are a few items that affect almost any hobbyist on a broad spectrum.
Last edited by coppercutlass; November 24th, 2020 at 09:14 PM.
Yes I plan on doing ignitions, I hope that will be one of the first things done.
But I’m running out of time, I go in for hip replacement in a few weeks. I was hoping to have the engine on the dyno and maybe have a couple of buddies help me do some simple replacement stuff during that time. We’ll see.
I think one other guy tested the Thorton Jr's, Thorton Shorties and Full length. The Shorties did gain over the manifolds. No one has ever tested the Sanderson shorties, interesting to see how they both compare to full length. As said, manifolds have been done, no need to rehash them. I would assume the shorty headers would be 10 to 15 hp less and torque than full length and about the same more than manifolds. Another almost mid length header is the Hedman shorty, I would bet they would be in between the shorties and full length but ground clearance can be an issue. Use the cheap Chinese Stainless full length headers or whatever you have laying around. I really want to know and then I can buy one of the sets off you since they were used and abused, so at a discount price😁. Seriously, I am waffling on what do for exhaust the 424 build for my 70S. Everything has comprises one way or another, I really have to decide if X hp/tq loss is worth the fitment gain and possibly custom down pipe cost. Or the gap is too big and go with full length and all their issues.
Sorry but if full length headers always win no need to beat a dead horse. Anyone buying anything other than full length headers knows there is a compromise .
A simple one would be lifter preload. Engine masters did valve lash. I would be curious how much hp change or curve change happens incrementally from the typical . 040 all the way down to 0.
Another one would be intake alignment. Taking a port matched Intake vs one that has not been matched. Seeing how much power is lost between the 2.
An interesting one would be points, vs hei vs msd. Along with plug gaps.
Those are a few items that affect almost any hobbyist on a broad spectrum.
regarding the header comparison , if there is a 30hp difference between Thornton shorties and full length headers, there can’t be a whole lot of difference between factory vs shorty. So why use shorties at all? This is something to consider since the Thornton w/z factory manifolds are much cheaper and retain the factory look. Will follow along , interested whats in store for this mule ! Good luck with your surgery Mark .
Molnar stuff is worth the $150 upgrade any day. Their customer service has been top notch when I've called with questions. Unfortunately they haven't had Olds stuff until now, but we've used it on the Mopars. Our machine shop is extremely particular, and he's never had to fix their factory machining other than some light pin end clearance touch ups.
Nice job getting him to make them for the Olds crowd.
Points vs electronic ignition, roller rockers vs stamped steel, port matching vs. non matched. All these comparisons have been done by Freiberger or his coworkers on Hot Rod or esp car Craft. In all of them at most you'll see it 3-5 hp improvement. There are exceptions of course. Burned points vs electonic ignition or roller rockers vs stamped steel on extreme high lift cams or gross port mismatch, of course that would show more improvement.
Molnar stuff is worth the $150 upgrade any day. Their customer service has been top notch when I've called with questions. Unfortunately they haven't had Olds stuff until now, but we've used it on the Mopars. Our machine shop is extremely particular, and he's never had to fix their factory machining other than some light pin end clearance touch ups.
Nice job getting him to make them for the Olds crowd.
That makes a lot of sense if they make Dodge rods. Other than being longer, the big end is close to our dimensions and our probably a straight beam. I agree, only a few dollars more for better product is probably worth it in the end.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; November 25th, 2020 at 09:36 AM.
Molnar stuff is worth the $150 upgrade any day. Their customer service has been top notch when I've called with questions. Unfortunately they haven't had Olds stuff until now, but we've used it on the Mopars. Our machine shop is extremely particular, and he's never had to fix their factory machining other than some light pin end clearance touch ups.
Nice job getting him to make them for the Olds crowd.
Thank you. You know I live for this right, getting companies to make Olds parts!!😉😎
Had a good conversation with Tom Molnar some months back. He likes doing different stuff, enter me. So it all worked out. Plus the Scat rod is good, certainly better than the stock stuff, but the Molnar is clearly better than the Scat.
As far as testing different stuff goes, I want to test virtually anything mainstream, especially stuff that started out as old wives tails and won’t go away, ie headers vs manifolds etc. There are a ton of people on FB that still believe there isn’t much difference between the two.
HOWEVER the first round of testing is already spoken for.
Very interested in what you picked for the first round. I would be willing to pony up when you get to testing one of the shorty headers. My ceramic coated Sanderson headers are nearly 15 years old and have seen better days. Even if I sell my 88 Cutlass they are staying with it. Sanderson's are just as tight as manifolds but have individual 1 5/8" tubes, 3/8" flange and 3" collector should gain something over manifolds. The two advantages for the Thornton shorties are stainless tubing and use the available manifold down pipes where the Sanderson need custom ones. My only experience with full length headers were Flowtech and it was far from positive. I have also experienced low hanging exhaust, another unpleasant experience. This seems to be an issue with quite a few full length headers as well. I need something better than the current 260 manifolds and less than 2" dual exhaust.
regarding the header comparison , if there is a 30hp difference between Thornton shorties and full length headers, there can’t be a whole lot of difference between factory vs shorty. So why use shorties at all? This is something to consider since the Thornton w/z factory manifolds are much cheaper and retain the factory look. Will follow along , interested whats in store for this mule ! Good luck with your surgery Mark .
Pretty sure Mark compared just the manifolds, not the shorties. Pretty much any testing done puts shorties in between manifolds and full length headers. I was going to the Chinese BBO stainless header since they are well made, fit and cheap. But since they are BBO, they hang pretty low. My car has a ton of ground clearance but then I remembered how much I hate scraping exhaust. If Mark will buy Ceramic coated Sanderson headers and get custom 2.5 inch down pipes with an O2 bung, preferably mandrel bent, cannot get that around here, I will buy them. The Sanderson with ceramic coating are cool to the touch in minutes and with pipes bent straight back, which I want, a full size starter clears with ease. Plus only RTV where you attach the thick 3/8 flange to the head, no gasket. the new Optimum Grey RTV works great. Either Cooper or Aluminum 3 bolt collector gaskets coated with Optimum Grey will last forever. No one has ever dynoed the Sanderson headers, I bet they are worth at least 10 hp and torque over the 2 1/8 opening Thornton manifolds. A person could go 3 inch off the Sanderson, if Mark wants to test both, I will buy both 3 and 2.5 inch down pipes. I assume Mark, the Procomps you plan are entry level port work and if they have a 65 to 70cc chamber, I am very interested and will find a way to purchase them.
Yes if anyone wants me to test something, get it to me and I’ll make every effort to do so.
As far as heads go I have a few different things I’d like to do, ie totally stock, then bowl blend with larger valves, aluminums etc., add to that intake manifolds as well.
However not sure what I’ll be able to actually get to in the next couple of weeks before I’m out of commission for awhile. Plus I’m still sorting out my Dyno etc. Lots to do!!
Yes if anyone wants me to test something, get it to me and I’ll make every effort to do so.
As far as heads go I have a few different things I’d like to do, ie totally stock, then bowl blend with larger valves, aluminums etc., add to that intake manifolds as well.
However not sure what I’ll be able to actually get to in the next couple of weeks before I’m out of commission for awhile. Plus I’m still sorting out my Dyno etc. Lots to do!!
Can't wait to see what kind of results you get. Good look with the hip replacement! I hope you are back up and around quickly.
Yes if anyone wants me to test something, get it to me and I’ll make every effort to do so.
As far as heads go I have a few different things I’d like to do, ie totally stock, then bowl blend with larger valves, aluminums etc., add to that intake manifolds as well.
However not sure what I’ll be able to actually get to in the next couple of weeks before I’m out of commission for awhile. Plus I’m still sorting out my Dyno etc. Lots to do!!
Sounds good Mark, let me know when you are getting close. It is probably easier if I pay for the purchase of the Sanderson headers and down pipes, then only shipping one way to me when you are done. No rush what so ever, just get healed up. Hip surgery is much better than knee replacement. Everyone is nearly 100% afterwards, knee replacement is a marginal improvement at best.
Assembling my Dyno mule. It’ll have a custom Crane Hyd roller, the new Molnar Rods and of course, the Mahle piston.
Ultimately at some point I’m sure it’ll have aluminum heads as well so just wondering what color I should paint it. Any ideas guys? (Red is my favorite color btw)
Thanks!!
What is the purpose of those steel blocks on top of the main caps? I believe they are there to make the main bearing assembly stronger, but what's the theory behind?
I recently installed the Thornton manifolds on my '68 Cutlass with a rebuilt 350. I haven't run the engine yet because I have no exhaust, carb, or radiator yet. The drivers' side manifold outlet flange is about 1/4 inch away from the stock starter solenoid. I can't even run my starter brace it is so close. Was that your experience as well? I contacted Thorntons and they said they have sold hundreds of them with no issues. Well, I have an issue. I'm afraid I'm going to melt my purple crank wire on my new harness. I am going to run a separate wire, with hi-temp insulation, to the solenoid and attach it to the purple wire with a small bolt and nut or a terminal block to keep it away from the heat. Thanks and take care.
I ordered a new set of Sanderson shorties and they are delivering them to Mark, after discussing it with him. If everything goes to plan, we will see where they are compared to full length headers on the dyno. My last 3 sets of headers from them were good. One guy had a set with holes in the welding and another that didn't fit. This is the second set with issues I have seen with Thornton headers on this forum.
Yes I plan on doing ignitions, I hope that will be one of the first things done.
But I’m running out of time, I go in for hip replacement in a few weeks. I was hoping to have the engine on the dyno and maybe have a couple of buddies help me do some simple replacement stuff during that time. We’ll see.
Mark, I hope your hip replacement recovery is doing well!
Just curious when you you expect to be back at the dyno to test some of these scenarios.
November 21st, 2020, 03:33 PM
