captjim

There is a problem with that premise. You can make statistics say whatever you want. Yes, cylinder pressure and power will be higher with the iron heads, all things being equal. BUT, and it is a big "but", the aluminum heads allow you to run more cam and more compression, which will result in more power. So, an iron headed engine, pushed to the limits of pump gas, will make LESS power than an aluminum headed engine in the same situation. Also, the chamber is improved on the aluminum heads, with better quench. This is much more of a factor on SBCs and SBFs, but still just another advantage.

cutlassefi

Cutlass Freak- Bernard has a price point that he has to meet. That, along with the fact that he has the luxury of being able to sift thru multiple heads makes sense to me.
Secondly I said Bare heads, not assembled. If you buy them that way you can check everything before you assemble them. I agree, I wouldn't buy their assembled heads either unless they came from Bernard. And yes your math makes more sense than mine, my bad.

Oldsmobile Dave- you muddied the water by mentioning going 4.300 but didn't tell us with what. Thank you for correcting that but imo you have given partial info before, that's frustrating and a waste of people's time. Please have some consideration for guys glancing thru these posts. In this case they could've thought it was fine to bore a reg small or big block Olds that big. Understand my point? Hope so. Thanks.

wr1970

Good point on the bore size Mark.

wr1970

Mark cutlassefi Dave the freak made a open invitation for you to post a diesel build here in this thread.Do you have something in work? Dave i hope you will keep everyone updated as work proceeds.

madmax442

Mark will do my NASCAR build sometime in the future. It does t help us with numbers now but it would be in the same category I'd say.

chadman

I personally wouldn't bother building a 500ish HP DX motor. You can build a 455 for less that will have better street manners and be very reliable. IMO big power durability is the only reason to do a D/DX build.

madmax442

Exactly! A DX or NASCAR build should only be used for big power! Why spend a ton for just 500hp! Might as well have 1000-1500hp

coppercutlass

Why ??? simply because one can. i see way too many people speand wayyyy too much on under powered engines. Like the 380 stroker build that only made like 325 hp or something lame like that. Could have spent alot less and build a nice little 350

wr1970

I like the way you are putting down Milans effort on his DX build.Really copper and throwing Dave under the bus too!!I think you have no clue!Much less the know how of Milan or Dave.You should take a back seat and see what comes of this build.Can you name a build of Milan's that was not impressive!I think he is a very capable builder.JMO

coppercutlass

That comment was towards the people who said to build a 455. I'm all for the dx build with the stock crank. Dave knows I actually talked about this style build well before this build came to life. You sir need to get your facts straight. The question was why would someone build a 500 hp dx or spend that much for 500 hp . I said because you can. Other people where putting the build down saying a dx should be for all out power. I'm all for it as I mentioned before and in sure Dave and Milan will impress. I think you have no clue because you missed my joke. But I will explain. A while back a build for a 380 stroker came up that only made 325 ho or something dumb like that which was built by neither dave or milan ., I said that a 380 for the street is a waste. Someone said the dx was a waste unless it's all out and to build a 455. So it's kind of like a slight jab at my self while making a jab at what was said. You get it now. I consider Dave a close friend and would never take a jab like that towards his efforts or him. He has helped me out alot and I like to think I have helped him as I have been doing the body work to his 67.
. I have alot of respect for Milan and would not think in anyway to put his efforts down. I like the fact he has done builds that go against what many would do. I personally like thinking outside the box and that's what this build is.

captjim

You have become pretty arrogant of late. Strokers only cost a little bit more and add cubes and torque. Calling that build "lame" is not fair. The owner was looking for a mild street car with a lot of torque and built the engine that way. IIRC, it made like 425 ft/lbs at a low rpm, mission accomplished. Every build has a different goal and budget, stop judging everything on how YOU would do it.

cutlassefi

That 380 was done by me. And as usual you don't have a clue.
It made 325 raw but over 350 corrected and had well over 400ftlbs of torque at 3300-5000 rpm. It was 9.0:1, stock heads and with a very small roller.
But bottom line though it was what HE wanted.

You're real good at criticizing people if they don't think like you. Just sayin.

coppercutlass

Jim how else would I do it why . Arent we here to exchange personal opinion don't know how that's arrogant I simply expressed my opinion. Mark you seem to forget you gave me crap for years because I didn't agree with you and did things differently . It's cool that's what's the customer wanted but my opinion still stands.

cutlassefi

Wrong, you were spewing crap with no backup. Big difference between that and simply voicing your opinion, sorry.

67 Cutlass Freak

Take it easy guys. I wanted to build a higher output engine myself originally. I think some of you guys are missing the point of this build. First of all Milan was trying to help a close friend, to put together a very street friendly DX, with a moderate budget in mind. The original goal was to shoot for 450-500 HP using the stock crank, ported SB heads, a roller cam, custom pistons and rods. That's how this build started. Machine work was done, heads were ported, rods were purchased. Then a baby was made, life got in the way, and priorities changed for our close friend. Milan stepped up and shelled out some significant money to pay off the machine shop bill. We can all throw out ideas of how we would build our dream DX, but that doesn't help Milan to recover his outlay of cash. I'm going to help him with any money I can, and as much labor help that I can, but this is not a high priority build. I think Milan has made the right decision to do a mild DX for the street, primarily because it will have a larger potential market when it comes time to sell. Now don't forget guys this engine could always be upgraded in the future, and turned into a race version. All the expensive machine work has been done. Milan is building an all out race D/DX engine right now that should put out upwards of 930 HP. So really he's got nothing to prove.
This thread was started in an attempt to get ideas about what others might want, "in a street DX build", utilizing the components that are already paid for. Please don't argue or bicker about why we are building a lack luster measly 500 HP DX engine. The fact of the matter is most guy's chassis can't even handle 500 HP. The other issue is - it's a lot harder to sell a race engine than a street friendly engine. There's a much smaller market.
Let's try to keep this thread moving in a positive direction. There's a lot of guys that come on here just to read and get ideas. I suggest we try to steer this thread in a direction of educational "How to build a DX" engine. Please let's try to move in that direction and leave our petty differences out of this. There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion, but it really doesn't need to be aired out here. Take it to PM's. You guys are very passionate about Oldsmobiles, that's for sure.
Play nice kids, Dave - The Freak

wr1970

You are right copper i did miss the joke. I miss understood your intent of the post. Copper please accept my apology. Thanks Dave for trying to set the record straight and keep this thread on track.

cutlassefi

x2.

83hurstguy

Thanks for clearing that up Dave, I almost posted something similar last night but didn't have time. It's not a "dream DX build", but it will provide a data point for something different, since a lot of the parts are already partly built.

I think it would be cool to have a bulletproof 500 hp mill that would be built to take a healthy dose of nitrous (say 200-250 hp). You'd have a streetable combo that could surprise the hell out of a lot of people at the track. Then Milan could put it in the yellow cruiser and go "fishing"... he could probably pay for the new race engine build that way, haha...

captjim

If that is the goal then I agree, it would be an ideal platform

Have you guys thought about trying to "sell" the engine before you build it instead of the other way around? That way you can do it exactly the way the client wants it. I agree, a pump gas engine will be MUCH easier to sell, I am just not sure you will get ten grand out of it. Hope so!!

83hurstguy

I don't think that's the goal, just my idea of what I'd do with it.

madmax442

Looking back on my previous comment I relize I misspoke. It was my opinion only that a D/DX or NASCAR build should only have big power. No disrespect to the owner of the thread or anyone else here. I do agree a build like that would be very reliable!

oldsfromyell

I think building a DX for a street car makes perfect sense. Think about it from the standpoint of block strength. The gas blocks have limits and it is expensive to add girdles, caps, etc. The D or DX as a hot street engine in the 500-600 HP range would not really cost that much more than say a 455 that is projected to make more than 500 HP. It will need some extra steps taken to help the block survive with side motor mounts and the constant abuse of going to the beer store or fishing trip. Not every DX needs the lifter bores bushed or 4 bolt cap conversion. Take a 425 crank and have it offset ground for this type of engine does not need to be an all option $2000. Crankshaft. I am building a DX stroker for my street car. It will be a 434 with around 500-525 h.p. it will be backed up by a T56 so I wanted a good strong block to start with that should live a long healthy life without any extra work beyond having the crankshaft set to 4.00 stroke and 2.100 rod journal.Just my .02