ramrod31

What is your thought for the best head for the Olds smallblock for high performance Street play considering a 3:42 gear with a nice converter matched to a hot cam. Possibly a little nitrous just for fun and games

coppercutlass

Best heads stock probably big valved w31 heads., Rule of thumb anything pre 73 is good pre 70 is better. I have a set of 6's but they have been re worked .

Octania

What engine?

A few more details please

Run to Rund

If you are keeping the 3.42 gears, get any year 64-72 small block heads and install the bigger valves used by W31s.

cutlassefi

Don't waste your money on redoing the stock stuff. Just get a set of Procomps and mill them to the desired cc. You'll be glad you did.

Kennybill

"Street play." A good set of 4,5,6, or 7's, with small valves and right cam, intake, and exhaust will flow more than you need for your stated purpose. Jmo, Ken

ramrod31

I am talking 10:1 comp flat tops like the 31s only forged
with a decent cam

coppercutlass

Im running 10 to 1 on #6 heads milled .024 with the pistons about .025 in the cylinders with a .040 head gasket and speed pro flat tops. I should hit 12's on the motor.

cutlassefi

Procomps.

HP TV made 384/410 on a mild 350 build. And judging from my own experiences in the last few years, unless you're looking to retain the stock look the original irons are a waste of time and money.

Jmo

coppercutlass

I love iron heads. But if i didnt have 1000 in to my currentheads i would pop on the procomps. They came out months after i had mine done. talk about story of my life day late buck short.

Bernhard

I think there is something special when your car runs well with the factory iron heads.
Is it smart no ?
But is it cool X2 I think so anyway.
I think when you look at a car running well with factory iron heads you have to give the owner extra credit because it was not easy for them to reach that point. There are a few that have run in the 10's with iron headed 350 gas blocks. Nick is one of them, there is also a local racer that has run high ten's with his iron headed small block.

nofiveo

X2 I feel that anyone can call up Summit and order parts, bolt them together and go fast. Personally, I have more respect for the guy that is wiling to MAKE horsepower by putting the time and effort into doing it himself. That said, anyone got a set of procomps laying around? I need some to melt down to fill the crossovers on my iron heads

coppercutlass

I must also agree with both you guys. You also have to take into consideration. With the procomps you will need to mill them for an sbo along with neededing roller rockers and I don't know if you can run a mechanical fuel pump with the pcomps. So you are talking between 120 to 180 to mil them . Then roller rockers. Pushrods etc. Now you are looking at a 1500 dollar set of heads. I spent 1500 on my heads but it was the whole deal push rods, guiedplates. If you add the intake and milling of it I have 1720 into my my whole top end

coppercutlass

I know a member here bought procomps I'm real curious what it took to get the whole deal set up. Essential compare price to what my top end cost me. If he needed elec. Fuel pump, . Don't get me wrong I want a set of those heads but realistic price besides what's on the box is what I want to know.

Bernhard

Know that is funny


You know the iron heads might reject that off shore aluminum scrap.

captjim

So, using the above logic, a guy should start out with a 260, because it is more challenging? When you say "make your own HP", is the OP going to do his own port and valve work? I doubt it. Why is it OK to buy aftermarket flat top aluminum forged pistons, aftermarket aluminum intake, aftermarket headers and exhaust, aftermarket cam, but not aftermarket cylinder heads? Makes no sense. How much $ did Nick have in those "sprinkler" heads as he calls them?

Realistically, you are going to have close to a grand in a mildly ported set of cast heads. On a fun street car, they should be more than adequate. However, for a few $ more (here come the "might-as-wells) you can get an upgrade in performance, run more compression safely, and lose a few pounds. Depending on the budget and goals, in the long run the aluminum heads are "better". Are they worth the extra cost? Your call.

coppercutlass

based on my experience i still think iron heads are a bit more cost effectve. I told rocket racing what i wated to do and what i expected. John tolpa told me the heads i have will hold into the 12's no problems. we will see this year. Like i mentioned my whole top end cost 1720 . For me it makes sense as i dont see my self running faster than 12's. Everything i build is based on budget perfromance and usability and interchangeability.

captjim

Based on your experience? Have you even run aftermarket aluminum heads on a SBO? Also, you keep putting your car in the high 12s, run the number, THEN post how quick it is. Right now you are guessing on the performance.

coppercutlass

Well based on the fact i ran 13's at 103 mph. based on the mph and the fact my 60 ft. was dog sh&t it Should key word ( should ) have been in the 12 sec range. I never said it ran then number i said hopefully we will see if i hit the 12's. Also the diffrence between this build and my other build is a bigger cam, .030 over bore and im actually going to hiot the track with a good converter and bigger carb. Also i think once you actually run the numbers on aluminum heads it will run more than 1720 for the whole top end add for fuel pump if you have to run one. Thats what i was talking about . Also find where i said u ran 12's or " put my self in the 12's. You must have a grudge against me . Debbie downer should be in you sig line. Your problem is you read into what's not there . I never once said my car ran 12's So now you look like an idiot. I just said my whole top end cost 1720 and i personally feel running procomps will exceed this cost. You have also never ran procomps so any input you have is based on personal thoughts since you have never ran procomps on an sbo . Further more i can care less jim. You feel as your info should be validated by all yet your opinions is just many among us all in the internet and fall into the opinions are like @$$hole category.

coppercutlass

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BERNARD-MOND...-/271120622025

So 999 for the heads , and then you need the guide plates push rods, rocker arms , studs for the rocker arms ,and intake plus electric fuel pump. Im no expert but odds are based on the fact and my experience the procomps will run more tha my iron heads. Now before your read too far into it im not sayin that my iron heads are better. Just based on my opinion and goals which can be realistic to many forum members it might be cheaper to go the iron head route for some. just so i can elbaorate little better. the heads run 1000. add 265 for the rpm intake , add 120 for milling of the head surfaces, then add 127 for a holley blue pump, then add 27 for guide plates, then 350 for the harland sharp roller rockers, Thatright there puts you at 1889 and im sure im missing a few things. Thats the facts. Not to mention the intake will have to get ported to match the taller ports anf you will need a fuel pump cover for the block. It all adds up having to run an electric fuel pump and a fuel pump block off imo is part of the cost of running those heads. For some of us 300 dollars is a deal breaker. I also take back my 1720 figure it's actually less. My recipt from rrp was 1445 for the heads, pushrods, guide plates , studs, roller tip rockers, 120 for the swap meet intake and 100 to mill it thats 1665. I honestly think the procomps will run close to 2000 all said and done.

captjim

You sure get angry easily. Nobody is saying that iron heads are not cheaper. What we are saying is that the aluminum heads will give you more performance for a bit more money, and that the extra money may be worth it. As I stated,
"Depending on the budget and goals, in the long run the aluminum heads are "better". Are they worth the extra cost? Your call."

My contention with you was when you stated "Based on my experience". You have never run aftermarket aluminum heads so you can't say for sure that the extra money isn't worh it. You also said this in this thread,

"I love iron heads. But if i didnt have 1000 in to my currentheads i would pop on the procomps."

Also, I'm pretty sure you can get those heads cheaper than $1000 each.

coppercutlass

what happened to the me putting my car in the 12's you forgot that fast . Just like the 'your cal'l quote me saying i love iron heads is a personal opinion. I like iron heads but the procomps are so cheap if i had to do it all again i would do aluminum wtf is wrong with that. That price is for the set. not one.

cutlassefi

I'm sorry but with all due respect you need to read a little better.

Read the ad "Now come with studs and guide plates" So take that cost off.

And who says you have to use HS rockers? You can use any Ford/Olds roller rocker($200 most everywhere). I know, I've done it, have you? If so please give us your findings.
And if someone is going to spend $1000 on a set of stock heads do they usually put the same crappy pedestal rockers back on? No, at the very least they buy the Comp roller tip kit for $300.00. So you can take that cost off of there.

Have you dynoed/run multiple engines with and without aluminum heads? No.
So have you seen the effects of better combustion chambers/lighter materials that have less heat soak side by side than with an iron head? No.

Case in point. I posted my DX builds specs, 10.3:1 434 DX Edelbrock heads, Victor intake. Loved timing with 93 octane. Ran 38*, probably could have run more. Made 471hp with an 830 carb
Iron headed (Ga) 455 the same day, almost the same cam. Barely 10.0:1, RPM intake, same headers as the DX, anything past 33* and we lost power. Made 413hp with an 850. Remember this is a .040 over 455 (463), so with almost 30 more cubic inches, on the same dyno, with the same headers, same valve sizes and on the same day it made 58hp less. Why? I have two words for you, cylinder heads.

HP TV didn't port match their SBO and made 384/410. Would it benefit to port match? Of course, but apparently it's not absolutely necessary. So you can take that cost off of there.

See my point?

I know you like your iron heads, but you're trying to defend them with skewed facts. And yet you keep saying you'd take a set of Procomps in a heartbeat, hmmmmmm.

To each their own. But next time do your homework and don't just post heresay.

Thanks

captjim

I left it alnoe because it is pointless, run the number then post it. You should, and I hope you do, but until you do it is just guessing.

Again, I am confused. You seem to be defending the use of iron heads, stating that they are more cost effective yet then state given the choice you would use the Pro Comps. It makes no sense.

coppercutlass

Mark I never said iron heads where better. Jim I'm looking at it from a money spending point of view. The iron heads have their limits but for someone like me they suit me just fine. Now if I had to do this all over again I would do procomps imo john stolpa offers the procomps or did because he hates working on iron heads plus the value and performance is there. Dollar for dollar just heads alone no running gear to make em work it's the same coin but the aluminum flows better but it cost more in the end. Mark I put parts on there that I would use personally. But I know prices can be cut down. I didn't make claims of any sorts that iron heads are better. There is also a reason mondello offers their own version for 1500 with better parts it all comes down to personal taste.

LX89mustang

Mark is correct with everything he stated . There just isn't any good reason to mess with the old heads given the price for the Procomp heads that Bernard is offering . The only exception would be for restoration reasons on a rare set of irons .

With that being said , I don't have $1500 in my Procomps that I am currently running . I also purchased my heads from Bernard . Great guy with a great amount of knowledge that is willing to help you .

coppercutlass

1500 is that with the fuel pump and intake etc. Just curious. Imo not everyone is looking for an aluminum heads or even a street strip combo. My first olds 350 the stock 7A heads where freshened up as they where in good shape and they where all stock and the car ran high 13's it cost me 380 to freshen them up and mill them . It comes down to the build. There is still guys out there running iron heads on chevys yet they have so many options.

cutlassefi

I know, but you mentioned how you thought the Procomps weren't worth the "$2000 when all is said and done". The fact is they won't cost anyone $2000.00. and imo and experience they are well worth it.

And yes it's personal preference, but you listed costs that seemed made up or just unneccessary.

Hope this helps clear the air.

cutlassefi

Ever compared the design of even an older Chevy iron head to an Olds iron head? Night and day. Poor comparison.

455man

I just got my E heads back from the machine shop. I tear dropped the valve guides and ground down the AIR bumps in the exhaust. I took them completely apart myself. Bought new 2.07's at $100. Craigslist got me a set of rusty G heads with crane roller rockers, guide plates, studs, double springs and pushrods for $125. I stripped those heads and gave the parts to the machinist to install on my heads. Hardened valve seats, valve job and assembly cost me $400. I think my machinist is very low priced. Performer intake was $125 off craigslist. I wanted the procomps but on a budget I had to make my iron heads work. I'll post time slips this summer.

Anyone know how much hp/tq the aluminum heads would bolt on? 50hp sound right?

captjim

I HATE it when guys throw in used parts prices and deals, it just isn't a fair comparison. In a couple of years you might find a paif of Olds Pro Comps for $500.

I posted this thread a while ago,
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...arts-list.html
here are the costs I listed,

Head work, new liners, race valve job, seats
Port work (3 hours per head) , clean-up mill $750
Valves and spring are another $300. So call it a grand.
A lot of guys said that was too low.

firefrost gold

I "Hear Pro Comp" but I keep seeing edelbrock as the bar standard Has anyone run the procomp yet ? HP tv used edelbrock on their build ? BTR and others have stated with a little work a good set of BBO heads can be a great set of very cheep SBO heads with the right edelbroke intake

coppercutlass

Jim you can hate used part prices but that's part of the hustle . Who pays sticker price for a new car. No one. Who buys a used car with out talking the seller down. I have a complete 355 with probe forged pistons #8 heads and an eddy intake all for the price of nothing. People gave me stuff I traded stuff it happens in real life.

Bernhard

The local racer is in div 6 and has run a high 10 with his #5 's cast iron heads. He builds his own engines and ports his own heads. Gas block 350 in a 69 cutlass using factory rods. He posted a few times on the old ROP.

I never said it was smart to run old iron just very cool and I have respect for those that have run well using the old iron heads. I have respect for anyone trying to run old iron heads.

Its not that I don't respect the other builds because I do,anyone running Olds power is cool in my book and has a greater challenge building a Olds engine.

captjim

That's fine, then compare those used prices to the price of used heads. IMO, comparing used and horse-traded parts prices to new just isn't a fair comparison, too many variables.

coppercutlass

Isn't that the whole point of trading and buying used stuff . To have an edge over guys who spend a lot more.

captjim

In the original post it was stated a high performance street car with a little gear and some cam. We are giving our opinions, that's all. IMO, for a few extra $, the benefits are worth the cost. On a $5000 build you are talking $500, roughtly 10% increase. I bet you get a corresponding 10% increase in power, plus the other benefits (lighter, more Cr, better flow, no need to weld divider or fill crossovers, better chamber).

captjim

That's what you do, not me.

captjim

I think if you can do your own porting and maching, OK, but I doubt that is the case for all but a very few, myself included. Most shops don't even want to mess with iron stuff anymore when it comes to porting.

coppercutlass

I take pride in that ! It's also what I have to do to keep my ride out there . I don't have a lot of money to spend so to me 300 is a lot . I look at my builds in that prespective. That's why it took me over a year to finish my current 355.