OldsmoMike

I would like to visit with people that have Superchared a big block Olds engine. If you have been around or done this, please reply.

Thanks,

Mike

67 Cutlass Freak

Most of the guys running a super charger have done so with a deisel small block platform because of the weak block on the BB. Here's a thread that may interest you-
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....harged&start=0

OldsmoMike

I'm considering a street supercharged 425 olds project. My thoughts to this point... Using a F1 code 455 block, 425 Crank and rods. Have rods shotpinged with arp bolts. Main studs with Halo Girdle. Aries custom 8 or 8.5:1 forged pistons. Block decked and setup for o-ringed head gaskets. MSD 6 Ignition with built in Boost timing retard. Edelbrock carbs setup for blowers.
Thinking in the range of 6-9 lbs boost. Max rpm in the 6,000-6,250 range.
I'm not trying to pull every horse available, just looking for a good looking OLDS street engine that will stay together with 9 lbs boost at 6,000.
Please share any experience, links, thoughts about my config, etc.
Thanks!
Mike

Rickman48

Stone, Woods + Cook are the only ones I know of that were successful with blown Olds!
Maybe someone has a line on them.

67 Cutlass Freak

Well I hope you just won the lottery 'cause just the blower setup will be close to $5000. Not to mention the cost of building a strong enough lower end to handle it. I really do like the J&S Halo but it's not a girdle. It can be added on to make a full blown girdle, but it's not the strongest one out there. You may want to look ino BTR's girdle-
http://highperformanceolds.com/phpbb...hp?f=28&t=1103
or you can contact Smitty-
http://www.mjproformance.com/
or you could check out Cody's new lower end cage-
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....er=asc&start=0
What ever you do, don't run the stock rods. They are another weak link. The 425 cranks are good but seriously with a blower I would be all over a custom billet crank. I'm sure you could spend $20,000 on a blower motor without hardly trying. One of the hardest things to find is the blower intake. Most of the time they modify a dual quad intake like this one-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221187349749...84.m1423.l2649
These guys can set you up with the whole package-
http://blowerdriveservice.com/index.php
This car is super clean and pretty damn fast. The owner switched over to a turbo setup a couple years back. He hails from Illinois-

The other thing to keep in mind with a blown BB is what will break next? Can your trans, Diff & chasis handle the ponies?
Well I hope I haven't discouraged you too much, but I'd hate to see you start a project & get in over your head. I've never built a blower setup, but I have thought about it. You should go to the track or a good car show and talk to some of the guys that have been there done that. I hope some experts chime in for ya- Dave

coppercutlass

stone woods and cook ran 394's i think there wa a few other guys from that time running blown 394's

OldsmoMike

Thanks for the thoughts and links Dave. I live in rural Kansas and there just are not any Supercharged Olds around here. (Hell, I'm about the only Olds guy for 60+ miles of here.) A decent number of Blown chevy's, but as we know, each make is different. This is why I'm trying to find someone who has built one for the street and shows. I'm 51 years old, so much more show that street, but do enjoy stepping on stuff now and then. If I can find some people that has actually done it, I hope to learn what broke and what didn't at what boost levels. Your right, the sky is the $$ limit if one wants to go all out. All out isn't my mission here. If there is a specific line of boost, that if crossed, breaks the mains, then I know what boost line to not cross, and can drive the blower accordingly. There is a TA in Australia that runs mid 10's with blown 468. I would like to think that with my high nickle content block, shorter stroke, steel crank, and less R's, maybe mine would stay together. Its the "maybe" word that I hope with research that can become a little more certain.

Thanks again to those who have taken the time to post. If anyone knows of a street blown big Olds, I'd love to talk with them. - Mike

OldsmoMike

Forgot to mention, A Supercharger shop in Wichita KS makes the mainifolds out of Tunnle ram intakes. They cut them off as low as possible and still get the runners in the blower base plate. They use 1" thick material for the base. These seem to look a little better than the Offy dual 4 conversions. For the whole setup (blower, intake, drive, carb plates, carbs, linkage, etc for nearly half $ of what BDS or Hampton is asking.

As for the Tranny, I've been storing a 1966 Olds switch pitch 400 tranny for this project for 20+ years. If this project moves forward, we'll update it some. The rear-end, still thinking. - Mike

67 Cutlass Freak

I had to do some digging, but five years ago when I first started posting about my car a guy with the handle of "boogeracng" posted that he had a polished unit sitting on the shelf. Look about 3/4 way down on the first page-
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....ght=long+story
If you want me to contact him for you I can. I really don't know if he still has it or if he wants to sell it. Here's the latest on my car. I'm still broke and need to finish it-
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....nally+progress
these guys can help you with the full set up-
http://hamptonblowers.com/

ah64pilot

Tag - got a future twin turbo 455 project in the works...I'm gonna need all the help I can get.

380 Racer

Yes Chuck of boogerracing is a real nice guy, has a beautiful ****** coupe (absolutly love that old gasser look!). He will at least tell you what you need to know.

coppercutlass

Someone at the swap meet last week had one of those cut tunnel ram intakes for superchargers for sale I think he wanted 400 he is there every year and has not sold it. I have seen him have it last 2 years

krooser

You can buy everything you need at a reasonable price if you shop for some deals and have some patience.

When I was putting together the 6-71 deal for my early Hemi I found a NOS Cragar intake for $300.00. I pulled the 6-71 from an old Dodge semi tractor and paid $20.00 for it... I sent it to Rick Dean in WA to do the gas conversion on it and that was $285.00. I was the only Fleabay bidder on a new Dyers big block Chevy drive kit.... another $350.00. The only part of a drive kit that is engine specific is the bolt pattern on the front crank hub/dampner. And the snout lengths are available to fit anything. So you may be able to use a BBC drive kit and a crank dampner with a dual pattern BBO/BBC set of holes. The critical thing is the snout must be long enough to clear the front of the engine... no magic or voo-doo involved. Pullys can be spaced to match the crank hub.

BBC drive kits are pretty common on Ebay and at swap meets... used Olds intakes are not unknown.

I used stock Hemi rods and Venolia pistons (about $750.00... custom made for my deck height and 99cc chambers). I have my pulleys set for 8 lbs of boost... plenty safe for street use.

BTW.... Gary Dyer makes an Olds kit... http://www.dyersblowers.com/1694.html

cutlassefi

No such thing, doesn't exist. That's an old wives tale.

And I wouldn't even think twice about using the stock rods, you're destined for failure there. By the time you put in new bolts, recon and shot peen them, you could've gotten a set of aftermarkets that would be 3x stronger.


And if you want to go the next step, EFI, give me a shout. Happy to help.

captjim

Plenty of guys have scattered the bottom end of a 455 n/a, trying to do a blown application on the cheap is not a good idea, IMO.
According to this,
http://www.hamptonblowers.com/PRICE.HTML
you can probably put a street kit together for $5000 plus another $8,000-$10,000 for engine, support systems (fuel, ignition controllers, etc). You still need ported heads, quality engine components, all the good stuff. Blowers are cool, but not cheap. You could make more power with a lot less $ going turbo. Cool factor? No doubt. Fun factor, no doubt. The off-idle torque is going to be stupid.

TripDeuces

http://blowerdriveservice.com/cart/ymm.php?cat=9_64

BDS still makes them. About halfway down the page. Don't choke on the price

OldsmoMike

Thanks to all again for the thoughts.

I've found a supercharger shop 2.5 hours from me that does the gas conversion, makes the intakes from tunnel rams, will do the drive pulley-hub-balancer work, suppies edelbrock blower carbs, linkage, lines, drive, proper length snout, etc. Basically everything but the engine its-self for half the $$ that BDS or Hampton wants. They have been around for many years. However, they are almost all chevy. They don't have experience with Supercharged Olds engines.

So here - I'm questioning the the distinct areas of issues for Olds the compression/boost I've described above.

I've seen where some have used a J&S full girdle. I have not seen what they were using for Boost though. I have not ruled out a full girdle.

Custlassefi - you've convinced me to look into aftermarket rods. Do you have a manufacturer or supplier recomendation for rods? Since I would be purchasing custom pistons, there is some flexibility on the rod diminsions. The stock 425 rods are 7".

Thanks again guys. If anyone sees this - that has supercharged a street olds... good or bad... please let me know. - Mike

panos

You can also try Ross Racing Engines,them do a lot of custom parts and they building blower engines,mostly 324 and 392 but I'm sure they can help you,nice guys to deal with.

TripDeuces

http://highperformanceolds.com/phpbb...lit=blown+olds

Long thread on this over at HPO

cutlassefi

Rocket Racing has the 7" H beams. Plus you can do a search for Cadillac H beam Rods, I believe they are the same.

jfb

look up gary dyer in illinois he definitely knows what works and austin coil from john force racing worked with him back in the day. I talked to him about my combo plus maybe a blower a few years back he has the info the number should be on the web. He is about real power just like mondellos no bs the way it should be,I say let the masters gain the info and we pay a little more but we save ourselves agravation also,plus explosions and ourselves.

krooser

If you want a race engine with a blower you will need all the good stuff... but if you are just going to run it on the street with a reasonable boost you do not need aftermarket cranks, rods, headwork, yada-yada-yada....

A 6-71 at 5-7 lbs of boost will set you back in the seat and may even give better fuel economy to boot. There are lots of guys running on the street with bone stock engines with a huffer installed.

George at Clay Smith Cams custom ground my Hemi cam for good mid-range power and fuel economy. IIRC it's about 262 duration @ .050 set up 4 degrees advanced. The blower does the work so you don't need exotic head work or wild cams. You can build an engine with very good street manners... even better than a non-aspirated engine while producing 500 reliable HP.

A blower is the cheapest way to produce HP on a street engine... IMHO of course.

TripDeuces

So tell me about this economy cam that has 262 degrees duration @ .050? I would call that a wild cam.

cutlassefi

[QUOTE=krooser;514793] but if you are just going to run it on the street with a reasonable boost you do not need aftermarket cranks, rods, headwork, yada-yada-yada.... Really? Please tell us of an Olds that you know of running all "stock" stuff at this level, rods, block with no straps etc.

A 6-71 at 5-7 lbs of boost will set you back in the seat and may even give better fuel economy to boot. There are lots of guys running on the street with bone stock engines with a huffer installed. Oldsmobiles?

George at Clay Smith Cams custom ground my Hemi cam for good mid-range power and fuel economy. IIRC it's about 262 duration @ .050 set up 4 degrees advanced. Why bother? The blower does the work so you don't need exotic head work or wild cams. Really? You wouldn't call 262@.050 for the street a bit much?
QUOTE]

With all due respect, you came on this site looking for advice about Olds builds. I think you may have some bad info.

Just my opinion.

OldsmoMike

Thanks again for all the input. Been diging further on the 425 Olds weak points. I'm moving very quickly towards using aftermarket rods. I've seen others mention using K1 rods and JE pistons, plus other combinations. The rods I'm finding are for BBC, or use a differnt pin size than the 425 did. Some are diffent lengths, etc. If there is a combo of some aftermarkt rod (open to slightly shorter than stock 425) with some produced/available piston that will work in this engine, please share the info. This could save having custom pistons made.

So, - If someone is aware of a Aftermarkt Rod - Forged Piston combination that will work with the 425 stroke please share the mfgrs/part#s. I'm not opposed to turning down the rod journals if needed for common rods and recommended.

I'd like to stay with the long rods, but also need to consider what is available and proven to work.

If anyone knows a way to contact the guy with the blown 425 in a 55 chevy (2loose - thats around the web, I'd like to write him. - Mike

young olds

http://2loose.chevytalk.org/55fourdoor00.html this is his most in depth coverage on his car ive seen, may also find contact info here.

krooser

[QUOTE=cutlassefi;514870]Well I'm 500 miles from my cam card right now... I'll post the actual specs when I get home.

Iron is iron... for a mild street build with modest boost pressures most any block will hold up...Ford, Mopar, Chevy, etc. Maybe not a windowed main Olds... but you can get away with 5 lbs. of boost on a Flathead Ford that has three main bearings... if you stay sane with your right foot.

Holley has been selling blower kits that bolt on to stock engines for 30 years... and those belt driven superchargers are being installed on just about everything under the sun and used on the street... boost is boost no matter how you get it.

How many Ford Turbo coupes were factory equipped with Carillo H-beam or Crower I-beam rods? None... same for all the GM 3800's that came with superchargers in Pontiacs. I doubt you will see the new V-6 Ford F150's with turbo's using Ross pistons or Chinesium rods. The secret is to keep the rpm's and boost within reason...

I've seen 4-71 and 6-71 huffers on Chevy sixes, Olds 324's, Buick Nailheads and even Studebakers. I doubt that any of these engines had much for aftermarket stuff.

Since a blower increases the volumetric efficiency of an internal combustion engine you CAN see an increase in MPG if you are smart with the throttle.

Now if you plan on blasting down the 1/4 mile all bets are off... but a blown engine can be a joy to drive and live a long and healthy life on the street.

http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/recommend.php

cutlassefi

Hope this helps.

captjim

I think the "cool" factor of a blower is unmatched, but I disagree with the above statement. A 496" stroker will make 500 HP much cheaper and still be streetable and reliable. IMHO.

captjim

[QUOTE=krooser;514938] All due respect, but who puts a 6-71 on a BBO for mileage or to be easy on the throttle??

cutlassefi

[QUOTE=krooser;514938]I believe I have listed some hard facts here, not all heresay and opinion. If this is going to make any real power at all, to do this right quality parts need to be used.

380 Racer

I agree Mark, if you are going to baby it......why spend all that money for an engine ornament? I guess it's hard for me to believe it would not put more pressure on rods & crank.

captjim

It is all about cylinder pressure. Blowers and turbos do it mechanically, they force more air and fuel (in the proper proportions) into the chamber. Wider lobe seps keep it there. Nitrous does the same thing only use chemistry. How can there NOT be more strain on the parts? Also, with today's fuel, you gotta be on top of the tune or you will beat the bearings out of it.

Seff

You're entirely right about this.
Power is entirely made in the combustion chambers, and any additional power made there because of forced induction will lead to additional force being applied to all the parts in the bottom end. There's no way around it.

OldsmoMike

Cutlassefi - thanks for the rod/piston info. I will research the costs of the options.
I've done a decent number of near-stock - stock rebuilds but this is my first jump into this much mods, so please be patient with my questions. Maybe I'm a step ahead of some since I realize I'm out of my expertise and ask for input.
Question 1 - on your Rocket Perf rod - The Pin end is .990 (bushed). Stock 425 pins are .980. Ross list custom piston for the 425. Does anyone know if they will make them for the .990 pin instead of the .980 pin? (I assume yes, but I've never ordered or been around custom pistons)
Question 2 - on your BBC / KB combo, you mentioned the the stock deck height, it would yield static compression of 9.25. How does one compute how much of the 10.625 deck would be remove to obtain an 8 to 8.5:1 compression? (planning on line boreing and decking block to square it up anyway)
To update for some who have sent contact ideas.... I checked out Ross Racing Engines web site, looks like all the older Olds engines. I have emailed them, but not heard back yet. Went to Dyers web site. Under his general engine recomendations... Use performance head gaskets up to 12 lbs boost, O-Ringed beyond that. (I'm planning on o-ringed already). Stock rods up through 5 lbs boost. OEM Hi-Perf rods up to 12 lbs boost, 4340 steel rods beyond that. (Via Olds 425 reasearch, I'm planning on aftermarket rods). Crankshaft - cast for up through 5 lbs boost, Factory forged cranks for up through 12 lbs boost, 4340 for above that. (I'm going to use 425 olds forged). Pistons - cast ok for up to 5lbs boost, 8:1 press fit forged up through 12 lbs, Full floating with spiral locks for above 12 lbs. (I'm looking at Ross or Aries Forged. Open to other Mfgrs)
Blower drive service is about the same other than "most stock rods" are good to 10 lbs boost.
My next weekday off, I'll call Ross pistons and others for direct info.
Thanks to All for the opinions and ideas. I'll keep you posted on what else I find/learn.
Always welcome any new info! - Mike

copper128

The Scat #2-500-7000-990 (sometimes listed as #67000) connecting rod will work with your 425 crank without mods.

krooser

[QUOTE=captjim;515002]So you're saying that every time you drive you are hammering the throttle? A supercharger gives you linear power... from idle all the way as far as you want to take it. I have driven a 5 lb boosted SBC and it was a joy to drive...this car had a very mild cam and gave 16-18 mpg on the hwy. Used a single 650 Holley.

Read what BDS has to say about building a streetable low boost blown engine. All the good blower builders pretty much same thing... you can use stock parts, two bolt blocks, etc. in low boost applications. If you use your head and shop around you can bolt on 100-150 HP for under $2,000.00... I have about $1200.00 in my 6-71 set-up.

Even Gary Dyer agrees...

http://www.dyersblowers.com/223/232.html

krooser

I have a 6-71 core for sale for $250.00.

Rick Dean will rebuild it for gas use for about $300.00... pin the rotors, install new seals and bearings, set the timing and machine the case. That's plus parts. You'll need drive kit (about $750.00)... you can reuse a stock front cover. If you want "bling" polishing would be extra... use an Olds crank dampner with a Chevy bolt pattern. Your choice of a single or dual carb top plate... about $95.00.

You should be able to get the whole deal done for under $2,000.00

captjim

[QUOTE=krooser;515328]I hate it when guys do this, start talking about "deals" and used parts. What if you score an entire built BBO for $1800? The only fair comparison is new to new. IMHO.
Yes, you can use stock parts, low compression, and low boost. And I agree a supercharged car is a hoot, the low rpm torque is ridiculous! And I don't like the term "better". Sure Carillo rods are "better". To me it is "cost effective upgrade". IMO, when you compare the cost of reconned rods and cheap pistons vs new rods and quality pistons, it is worth the cost to upgrade. Now, if he had a fresh 8.5 to 1 BBO and wanted to bolt on a huffer with 5 lbs of boost, sure, he would probably be OK. But since he IS starting from acratch, the upgrades are cost effective, IMHO.

A few years back I almost bought a SBO manifold from DSE (he used to sell a kit) to put a single carb 177 Weiand blower on my car. You just can't make the math work, it ended up being $4000 for 75 HP and 100 ft/lbs.

krooser

I tried to buy my Hemi pistons from Ross but I got the idea they are so busy that they really didn't want to mess with a one time order. I contacted Venolia and those folks were top notch. They took my order then called my engine machinist to verify stuff like deck height, combustion cc's, etc. Only then did they make the pistons. They came with good Total Seal rings, too. About $750.00 back in '07.

I'd buy from them again in a heartbeat.

Here's an order from to give you an idea of what you will need to know before ordering custom slugs...