jims2000lt

I've decided to finally add a rollbar to my 69 442. Running mid 11s now and hope to be running low 11s next year after some suspension and car diet work. 10s probably are a few years away but ultimately I want a street driven 10 second Olds, but I want it safe.

I'm gonna go check out a raceshop tomorrow when I get off midnights to get some info, prices, and general info.

I want to go with a6 to 8 point bar with fixed door bars. I would like the #7and 8 bars to pass through the lower rear seat to tie to the upper control arm mounting points.

Gonna see what they offer as mild steel or chrome-moly.

Is it necessary to remove the backglass? Headliner? Figured I will pull the rest of the interior before I brought it to whomever.

Any info, advice and input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,Jim

chadman

I would strongly recommend an 8 point moly cage right off the bat. If not you will regret it later. Ask me how I know (my '69 is getting a 6pt. mild steel cut out for an 8pt. moly).

As far as what needs removed that depends on the shop. When I had the 6pt. done 15yrs. ago all I had to remove was the fuel tank. They used welding blankets and paper to cover the headliner and glass.

380 Racer

Can I ask why you don't want swing-out side bars? Makes it easier to get in and out of. I have a mild steel 14pt cage that works just fine, just heavier. Instead of weighing 3050 w/o driver, it would weigh under 3000. We never took out the rear window as I recall.

Run to Rund

Moly will save weight; on a 6 point bar, about 25 lb or so. An 8 point cage is different from an 8 point bar, which is a 6 point with two extra bars going to the floor inboard of the main hoop. With a full frame car, those extra two bars are not needed.

jims2000lt

Would feel like opening two doors to me. Also seems weaker to me to have moving parts. Havent personally expirenced either so these are just my thoughts with only going with a 6 point bar.
Thought about asking if they can install the door bars with a slight bend in the middle to clear the stock armrests if needed and make it easier to get in and out of.

jims2000lt

Thanks man.
Only want to do this once so if they cant do moly I'm looking for another shop.

chadman

Just another note about why I would go straight to an 8-10pt over a 6pt, a 6pt bar needs to be 1-3/4" tubing where an 8pt + needs only be 1-5/8". You can upgrade the 6pt to an 8pt + at a later date but you will have an unnecessarily heavy cage. I would go moly not only for the weight savings but the cosmetics as well (TIG welds as opposed to MIG).

A good chassis shop can easily bend the door bars to accomodate your armrests. I personally would not use swing out door bars. Yes they are perfectly NHRA legal if installed correctly but common sense will tell you that solid bars are stronger.

70Wcars

Both of my cars have the solid door bars bent and angel braced to clear the Arm Rests. The car most recently involved in the crash was built to NMCA specs. with double frame rails and NHRA cert. to 8.50. Probably over-kill but the under car bracing took alot of the shock when I hit the wall, but my feet/lower legs were kept well clear of motor/trans. Definately go ahead and build in the Halo now..it's cheaper than adding later.

I'll get some pics of the crashed car soon, but when we measured the ends of the frames of both my cars, the wrecked car is 17 1/2 " shorter than the other. That's a lot of movement.

Just my experience

Danny

380 Racer

Common sense? If NHRA says it's legal, especially down to 8.50 (which I will never see) and keep Jok safe is good with me. I've seen alot worse crap go thru tech. My car has passed chassis certification twice and regular tech many times. Don't you think some inspecter would have made a comment?

Not only is there a side bar and the halo but there is also a piece welded between the main hoop and front downlegs (?) along the sill all that was in there before the swingout bar.

Run to Rund

If you start with a convertible frame, it will add a lot of stiffness but also about 40 lb. 6 point bars do not get certified, just inspected lightly when you race. Cages must be certified every three years at about $150. Make sure whoever does your bar or cage follows the NHRA rule book so it will pass inspection. There are little things that make the difference like angle of the rear bars, how the shoulder belts are kept from sliding around, support of the seat back, headrest if the seat doesn't have one, side bar between shoulder and elbow of the driver. I pretty much need the swing out side bar to get it at the right height and still get into the car.

jims2000lt

I went to the local racecar shop this morning and it was a bust. They dont do drag car anything, only circle track. Dont know if I'd trust them to do that from what I saw but whatev, I left.
Called a few people for info and heard where NOT to go but thats it.
Started rethinking everything and figured I'm sticking to this plan and thought of someone to call.
My old friend Jeff that owns an allignment shop, but also does fab work too.
Called him and talked for 20 minutes to discuss everything and now we have a plan and I will be getting a 6-8 point mild steel rollbar installed probably at the beginning of march.
He and I discussed my goals with the car and figured this ro be my best end goal.

Not building a gutted, caged racecar.
Keeping a cleanly redone and modified streetcar, just adding a rollbar.

chadman

How did I know that you would take offense to that even though none was intended? I never said there was anything wrong with your car or any other with swing out door bars. I also said that when installed correctly they are NHRA legal. I simply said that common sense tells you that a solid bar is stronger. Are you seriously going to argue otherwise? Just because it's legal doesn't make it the strongest/safest. NHRA only allows them down to 8.50 so what does that tell you about which they feel is safer?

jims2000lt

Jeff is going to bend the door bars a little so its a tad easier to get in and out of. Also said I can keep the back seat but its probably gone cuz its gonna be a pain trying to put my son in his carseat throught the bars. Might be easier when he gets older and I can just throw him over the horizontal bar and tell him to put his belt on.

380 Racer

I am not going to argue with you because I'm not an expert on everything like you. BUT they are NHRA legal right down to 8.50 seconds.

chadman

You are hysterical.......... and predictable.

jims2000lt

This kind of stuff makes me feel like I'm on ROP.
If only I could get registered there. 2-3 years of waiting to get approved.

Anyways guys. Thanks for the input and advice.

Run to Rund

For your stated goal, I suggest a swing out driver's bar and a lower mounting of the pass. bar at the main hoop so it is easier to get over. On the street, you can choose to use the side bar, or remove it. I use Moroso pit pins on the top and the bottom so it is easy to remove for putting the car in the trailer, etc. Yes, it isn't as stiff, but I have the boxed convertible frame. If you go for mild steel with a head rest, you will add about 75 lb, less if you remove the rear seat which is around 47 lb. My carefully designed 6 point in chrome moly (CM), with the cross bar also supporting the seat and two 1" cm tubes for the headrest, weighs about 45 lb. The headrest tubes are 6" apart to keep the shoulder belts from sliding. Be sure mild steel is MIG or TIG welded to be legal; TIG only for CM. As you get older and less flexible, you will be glad the driver's bar is swing out, especially if the mounting point to the main hoop is high enough to be legal--meaning the bar passes between your shoulder and elbow.

jims2000lt

I'm going to look into the swing out bar parts.
Just ordered an NHRA rulebook for rolbar install info.
I wanted to go CM but the guy doing the work doesnt tig so I'll be removing weight else where to make up the difference.
Also planning to keep the stock front buckets for now so additional headrests wont be needed.
I'm hopeing with new front springs, rear airbags, lightweight flexplate, lightweight battery, removing the rear seat, and adding the rollbar, I drop a few tenths with a safer street/strip car.
Weight is around 3520 with me in it and I weigh 220 so after all this I'd like for the car to be at the same weight. We'll see what happens.

ah64pilot

Great info fella's. What is the average cost of an 8 point CM cage anyway? I am no fabricator and I wouldn't wanna spend money on endless tubes of improperly bent CM at my unskilled hand. Since Danny's wreck I've been doing a lot of thinking.

My car should have dipped into the 11's this year but we had bad track conditions and a potentially bad posi on our last outing. Once I change the rear end I expect it to get close to 11.50's as well... Since I still need to do the interior of mine anyway, now would be the perfect time to get a cage in him.

chadman

About $1800-$2200 for a nice custom bent molly cage.

BIGJERR

Real busy but thought I would throw my .02 in there.......Iam a big dude so i had to go with the swing out bars on my car.....340lbs over that bar all day isnt in my plans lol......If your a skinny guy more power to you,They make sweet snap in swing out bars that are as strong as the solid steel bars.......I went to my locall chassis shop and bought some equal strength bars that were longer so I could go down thru my speaker holes to the frame,Worked out real nice and keeps the stock type appreance of a street car...I also lined up my down bars withthe pillar so they are barely noticeable from a side view...I went with a CE A body kit and added diffrent back bars as noted above since the kits bars are a straight thru the back seat arrangment.........I have pictures of my install if you would like to see them........My set up certified to go 9.99......Jerr

BIGJERR

Dont forget to bend the down bars for the door to go around your stock armrests or the down bars will hit your arm rests.....See picture below....

BIGJERR

Almost forgot..........Chicks digroll bars.......

380 Racer

Damn Jerr.......she was a nice option .

ah64pilot

Jerry, looking at your pics makes me wanna...wait, roll bars, right!

I'm not 340 but I'm 6'2" 240 and I have tumors in my left leg that limit my movement. I would have to have swing out bars to get into the car. Hell, I had to move my bench seat back 2" just so I wouldn't keep dragging my shoe across the front edge of the kick panel, and even then, it's a tight fit.

Another problem is that I have to have room to move around because the largest tumor is on my sciatic nerve in my left butt cheek. I'm worried that if I put a cage in it I will lose the comfort, and subsequently, the streetability of my car. Decisions decisions...

Thanks for the pics Jerr...it helps to see the side bars and how they might affect my enjoyment of the car.

Mr Nick

Might want to rethink using the rear seat at all, with a cage. Slam on the brakes or hit something head on with a backseat passenger, and the lap belt will bend them at the waist and smack their face on the horizontal bar.

BIGJERR

I prefer to not think about that......

jims2000lt

Thanks man. I'm kindof leaning that way.

brandon reynolds

are you allowed to make the bar behind the front seat pin in also like the swing out door bars? for the street you could just remove the door bars and the one behind the seatr. thanks brandon reynolds

chasman414

I would love to see pics of your cage, I'm thinking of doing the same thing soon and would love any help or advice i can get..

jims2000lt

From what I've read a pin in horizontal bar is not legal.

Mr Nick

This may help, 3-point belts for the back seat.

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...int-seat-belts

http://www.morrisclassicconcepts.com/seatbelts.html

You still risk a rear passenger head injury with a roll bar, even with 3-point belts. It's one of those things where a cage would probably help prevent injury during 75% of accidents, but actually cause worse injury during the other 25% due to no helmet. Obviously I just pulled those #'s from my *** but you get the point.

Some high-density roll bar padding may help some too..?

BIGJERR

There was a guy with a monster HP Camero over on YellowBullet who got into a accident while driving his racecar on the street,Bounced his head off the roll bar with no helmet on..........He didnt make it.......I dont have the top bars so i guess mines a six point cage......It certified 9.99 so I think I will be good with that .........Forever..... lol

blckgnx

I don't see any mention of it here, however, has any of you that have put bars in experienced major diff noise inside the car after installation? I put a simple 4 point in my 70 before I got to drive it, and have major noise from the diff?? I pulled the heim joint control arms out and put in polyuerathane and cut down the noise some what. I'm now in process of removing the bar. Rear down bars were cut easily, however, it looks like I've got to unbolt the body from the frame to get at the "Hoop" attachment. Thanks, Ron

380 Racer

Jim, Steve anytime you cut through the floor pan to weld it to the frame, the tube should be welded to the floor pan also. It helps stiffen the car for an improved launch, which means better 60s,

Run to Rund

If you weld the bars to the floor, you need to use steel or aluminum body mounts so the body can't flex. I use sealer and a small gap to the roll bar where I patched the floor (the hole has to be big enough to get the MIG or TIG gun to the tubing/frame joint). I have the convertible frame and the car is plenty rigid for the power it has. I can jack up the car at one torque box and the whole side comes up uniformly. The door will open and shut perfectly. Of course, a rigid 6 point will add more stiffness than one with a swing out bar.

380 Racer

By welding 1/8" plates to cover the holes and welding to the bars and floor pan eliminate the need for solid bushings. The car just stiffens up. Quick Performance did an awesome job doing the cage and chassis on my car. It withstands and does not twist or distort with 580 ft lbs of torque thrown at it. It all works together, doors operate just fine........yes even with a swing out side bar .