oldsmoboogie

Im curious as in how much hp and tq it takes to run a givin time. For example how much power to run a 13 to 13.5,12.5 to 13,12 to 12.5 etc. If you could post up some docmented power numbers and ets it woud be appreciated. I know hp to weight ratio and traction are limiting factors thats why i have .5 sec variable. Im just curious if im in the ball park to break into the 11s? Thanks for your input

coppercutlass

depends on wheight gearing converter etc. you running an x pipe im a firm beliver in them i gained 2 tenths with one.

380 Racer

These are some very close charts.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/index.html#jcalc

oldsmoboogie

Thanks 380racer that is a great link. Copper i do have an h pipe with a madrel bent 2.5 inch duel flomaster kit. I am running a built 2004r trans with a 3000 stall non lock up 10 in converter add 3.73 gears in a 12 bolt

coppercutlass

X pipe is a little diffrent from h pipe the way it scavanges the exhaust. Do you run it through the exhaust or do you have dumps.

oldsmoboogie

I run full exhaust. I drive it to the track race and drive about 25 miles home

coppercutlass

Ahhh gotcha. Adding cut outs can give you a tenth or two aswell. I know if I run my exhaust through the muffler I run a tenth slower if I unbolt the mufflers and run the open x pipe it runs a tenth quicker.

70Wcars

Thanks for the added info on your combo. I am a believer in getting quicker without adding a ton more horsepower. For example, in my C Head days I saw gains with Tire and suspension upgrades. What do your 60' times and 1/8 mile ET and MPH look like? And there is always the everpopular " Cars on Diets go Quicker" approach...don't overlook weight savings even in a street car.

12.5's are Dang fast for a driver You're on the right approach!!

Danny

jims2000lt

Alot to be had with suspension tuning and stiffening. I feel my car has improved half a second with suspension work. Should run low 11s this year, finding out in two weeks.

oldsmoboogie

Im running a 275/60 bfg drag radial, my 60' times are usually 1.8ish wich i feel is pretty lazy is a 1.6 60' time outta the question for a street car on drag radials? I have edebrock adj uppers and boxed lowers with pinion angle set at about -2 degrees. My 1/8 mile times are 8.0 sec and i run 105 mph at the top. I have a msd billit dist. with no vaccume adv canister and a msd box. What should i be looking for in timing initial? total? and all in by what rpm? I have a 770 street avenger carb stock out of the box with the lightst spring. The motor is a .30 over 455 with 9.5compression and forged pistions, the heads have been ported and larger intake valves installed by a reputable olds builder,the cam is a comp cam pt no. cca-sk42-225-4 i will have to look up the specs as i cant find the card

oldsmoboogie

Cam pecs are intake dur at .050 240, exhaust dur at .050 246, intake lift 541, exhaust ift 544 on a 110 lobe seperation is this too much cam? I have entertained going with a solid cam down the road but id like to get the most outof this combo first.

Redog

Do you race in a class? For points?

I was thinking of putting dumps on my Delta, but I'm in street, which means the car is required to have a full exhasut with no cutouts

70Wcars

Sorry if I missed this earlier,. but what Intake Manifold? Also how do you launch the car? I found my old combination was quicker from just off idle...as in 900 rpm +-...If I brought the car up against the Converter, I would lose as much as .12 sec. The car seemed to like the " shock " to the suspension for best 60' and ET. I assume 18 to 19 psi in the Drag Radials? That has worked best for me.

With that cam, I would run as much initial timing as the car will crank with and total of 34-35 and all in by around 3000. Run decent fuel and listen for pinging.

Just some thoughts.

Danny

oldsmoboogie

I have a torker intake and i run about 22 pounds in the rear. It did seem to run better off idle when i would leave at 2000 rpm it would just spin like crazy. I just switched to a 4 inch wide front wheel to take some weight off the front as i have a pic and im very close to pulling the drivers side front. I am thinking about trying and adjustable rear bar that bolts to the frame and not the controll arms also. Do you think i have enough carb? NO i dont race in any class just for bragging rights i have a friend with a 68 camaro that runs 11.70 and a nother friend with a 68 firebird that runs 11.60 so i want to keep up and let the driver be the deciding factor here.

70Wcars

I run the same size Drag Radial as you do just in the M/T brand. I have gone 10.28 with a 1.40 60' running 18 psi. You may want to try that lower pressure. 770 cfm is plenty, I ran 11.40's with 750 Q-jet and Performer Intake. Quicken up the Advance, look carefully at your carb jetting...get some more weight out of the car...the front Wheels were a good move. I know you will lose some street manners, but a more race oriented Torque Conv. may help, closer to 3700, but check with some of the top manufacturers.

Good luck and have fun

Danny

gearheads78

I have never seen any BFG dragradial car have great 60ft times except in cars running in classes that were required to run them. The suspension has to be 100% spot on to get them to hook. First chance you get switch to M/T dr's at 18/19 psi and watch your 60ft go down.

oldsmoboogie

I do have a pair of et streets that have a little life in them im just not crazy about running down the interstate with those tires on it

67 Cutlass Freak

Here's a pretty simple tool that can help you to get a good idea-
http://www.richmondgear.com/112901.html

chadman

Oldsmoboogie, I think you should be able to go 11's with that combination. I think you just need to get it tuned in. I also agree with others in that the M/T drag radials are far better than the BFG's. I run a similar combo to you and have gone 11.67 @ 114mph. My combo is as follows:

461 CID
10.25:1
ported A heads
Torker intake
Holley 850 DP
1-7/8 x 3 headers
3" exhaust
10" 3200 stall
3.73 gears
275-60 MT drag radials
3825lbs. w/driver

best 60'= 1.60
best 1/4= 11.67 @ 114.6mph

gearheads78

Good to see you over on this side of the fence. Welcome to the site.

chadman

Thanks!

MX442

Hey Chad, with iron heads and 10.25:1, what fuel and timing are you running?

chadman

I run 93 octane pump gas and 22 initial and 35 total timing all in by 2200 rpm. I also run an adjustable vacuum advance but it's set to advance very little. Some say you can't run that much compression with iron heads on pump gas but I disagree DEPENDING on the rest of your combination. Cam timing, quench, carb tune, converter stall, gear ratio, weight, etc. all are factors.

chadman

I also forgot to list my cam specs in the above post:

Engle JM 3-4 hyd. cam .522/.542 lift 230/238 @.050 110 LSA in at 106 ICL

ah64pilot

Chadman, what kind of power does that put out? Did you ever dyno it?

chadman

Never dyno'd but according to the calculator 380 Racer posted it's about 475hp. I figure it's probably closer to 500hp seing as it's not optimized for the dragstrip as the gearing and converter are a compromise to make it more street friendly. I'm confident it would go 11.40's with more gear and converter.

MX442

Thanks Chad. The reason I ask.. Local shop told me that there is no way I can run 10.25:1 with iron heads. We used to have 93 octane pump here, but now only 91. This is in a 10.25:1 Toro motor. I haven't measured the piston dish yet, but I think it will be less than 10:1 with a .040" head gasket. I know what I'm getting into. This is a junkyard motor that cost me nothing. My only investment is gaskets, crank polish, bearings, rings, hone, cleaning, and time. I'll keep it under 5000 rpm, and we'll see how long it lasts.

oldsmoboogie

Chadman how is your suspension set up front and rear? I would like to run 60ft times in the 1.6s.How do you launch the car and what rpm do you shift?

ah64pilot

That has me smiling. When Danny came to Houston I ran a 12.11 at 112.55 with my car. I made 492 / 544 on the dyno but I feel it's got a little more in it now that the rockers are right (geometry and quality).

My 12.11 is with 3.42 gears and a really REALLY stiff suspension (big block springs, Hellwig 1 1/4" sway bar, etc.) I am working a deal right now to get Moroso trick springs and QA1 adjustable shocks up front, and I'm going to trade the Hellwig over to my convertible and put the stock sway bar back on the silver car. Hopefully that will put me in 11.70 range and then I'll trade the gears out for 3.90's to get even lower.

I'm interested in your suspension, you're obviously running well for less HP than I have. Not saying I wanna copy you, but it might not be a bad idea

chadman

My suspension:

FRONT
stock upper and lower A arms
Moog 6204 springs (6cyl Tempest)
90/10 shocks
no sway bar

REAR
UMI adjustable uppers
UMI boxed lowers
stock sway bar
air bags at 6lbs/16lbs
stock springs
poly bushings

I launch at 1200 rpm and shift at 5200/5400 rpm

jims2000lt

1.55 to 1.60 sixty foots with 275 60 drag radial with a 3.42 gear here. So its not out of the question at all.

gearheads78

But are you on BFG's or M/T's?

oldsmoboogie

I went to the track last night but got only 2 passes in the best being a 12.25 at 108.5 and a 1.7 60ft. I switched to an 850 street hp and a 1 inch open spacer. I havnt had a chance to mess with any tuning yet as the track was very busy. The bop race at cordova is in 2 weeks so i should have a chance to get some runs in and start tuning. And it doesnt hurt that there will be a ton of olds guys there for me to ask for advice!

VORTECPRO

13.00@4000 pounds, 305 HP, 12.00@4000 pounds 397 HP, 11.00@4000 pounds 530 HP. 9.3s @ 3630 pounds 839 HP.

VORTECPRO

Again, this HP calculator is right on the money, if you use use the MPH option.

380 Racer

Captjim and I disagree on differences with torque and HP. Mark we are going to disagree on the difference on measuring HP by mph or ET.

VORTECPRO

As far as I know, the MPH a car ran at a given weight has allways been the determining true HP on that given day, at that moment, in those conditions, from my testing it seems about every tenth of barometer gain is about 7 HP on a 700 HP engine. I will take high RPM HP over TQ every day of the week, when it comes to putting a car down a dragstrip.

380 Racer

I have to use adjusted altitude which takes into account the barometer, plus temp, humidity, dew point and water grains. We race in 2600-3000 foot of adj altitude which affects both.
With us not running it all out I figure we are using about 650 HP out of the 730 it produced on the dyno. From what I have been told the SuperFlow 902 corrects to sea level and that's what I go by.

VORTECPRO

Nick, you race in a 29.00 Baro roughly, A SF 902 corrects to 29.92 60 degrees dry air (STP) correction. 9x7=63 HP roughly, I test a lot in Kearney 2130 feet physical altitude, baro runs from 27.3-28.00, horrible head winds, last time I was there the DA was 5320, with 119 grains of water, made twp passes and packed it in.

jims2000lt

275 60 M/Ts 15 lbs. Leave around 1200 rpm. Working for me somehow.