aluminum heads

Old December 10th, 2018, 02:48 PM
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aluminum heads

I was looking around and found Bernard Mondello he has his own shop not affiliated with the original Mondello He uses speed master heads has anyone used these and if so what are your thoughts there a lot less expensive than the Edelbrocks
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Old December 10th, 2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by oldsdriver1218 View Post
I was looking around and found Bernard Mondello he has his own shop not affiliated with the original Mondello He uses speed master heads has anyone used these and if so what are your thoughts there a lot less expensive than the Edelbrocks
I offer them as well. Best bang for the buck for sure.
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Old December 11th, 2018, 06:49 AM
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The general consensus is that the castings and basic machining are good. They should be carefully checked if buying fully assembled. Best route is going through a competent shop like Bernard's. They'll typically order the bare heads and inspect/assemble themselves.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 11:50 AM
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I bough a pair of bare Speedmaster heads off Spedmaster on Ebay, for 286.36 each on Black Friday weekend. No valves, springs, retainers or pushrod guide plates They may do a price drop again towards Christmas.

Bernard seems to be a good guy, for those who do not have access to a good machine shop and can't do the work for themselves.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 11:23 PM
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Is it just me, or doesn’t everybody else wish that one of the great head porters would fully work a set of Edelbrocks over or these other brand heads, then make a “race casting” head that starts out with 290+ cfm of intake flow out of the box.

I have worked on hot engines since I was 13, and I have always thought it was the dumbest thing in the world to make a new,mediocre-flowing head casting the final product that buyers pay a bunch of money for, and then have to port the heck out of them if you really want a bunch of power.

If a frickin L92 6.2L LS series Chevy Head can flow over 300+cfm in stock form...... tap, tap, tap

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Old December 13th, 2018, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Battenrunner View Post
Is it just me, or doesn’t everybody else wish that one of the great head porters would fully work a set of Edelbrocks over or these other brand heads, then make a “race casting” head that starts out with 290+ cfm of intake flow out of the box.

I have worked on hot engines since I was 13, and I have always thought it was the dumbest thing in the world to make a new,mediocre-flowing head casting the final product that buyers pay a bunch of money for, and then have to port the heck out of them if you really want a bunch of power.

If a frickin L92 6.2L LS series Chevy Head can flow over 300+cfm in stock form...... tap, tap, tap

But the Chevy's flow like that, with stock intakes and exhaust port locations. Battens aren't stock locations and neither are the high flowing port jobs on Oldsmobiles. But then again the Olds normally are at lower RPMs, so need less flow to make their power.

These aluminum heads can be easily redone, to meet the flow of 99.99% of olds racers, and at a reasonable price close to what the Chevy's cost aftermarket. With a little work these Olds Speedmaster flow
.100 73
.200 146
.300 207
.400 247
.500 270
.600 288
.700 301

Unlike Iron aluminum is soft and easier to modify to the required flow, which might be less than those numbers.

Bernard says they flow
Valve Lift Port #1 Port #3 Port #5 Port #7
100 67.02 64.51 64.15 66.09
200 140.00 132.48 132.48 140.00
300 187.80 189.20 189.29 196.75
400 225.07 226.56 222.08 244.44
500 233.71 229.54 236.10 245.63
550 239.08 232.52 229.54 250.40
600 241.46 234.01 231.03 251.00
650 240.27 236.99 232.52 250.40
Smitty said out of the box stock

.100 70
.200 143
.300 205
.400 227
.500 231
.600 235
Those are not bad flow numbers for a fairly streetable or stock type BBOs, and greatly exceed stock SBO's numbers.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 05:13 AM
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The Procomps I offer flow about [email protected] and have polished chambers. They're $1850 plus the ride and I've made over 550 with them fairly easily with 0 issues. Just sayin. And there are stock port location Olds aluminum heads out there that flow about 300.
Have faith though, there is better out of the box stuff coming, but will the Olds community buy it. That remains to be seen.

Last edited by cutlassefi; December 13th, 2018 at 05:17 AM.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Firewalker View Post
But the Chevy's flow like that, with stock intakes and exhaust port locations. Battens aren't stock locations and neither are the high flowing port jobs on Oldsmobiles. But then again the Olds normally are at lower RPMs, so need less flow to make their power.

These aluminum heads can be easily redone, to meet the flow of 99.99% of olds racers, and at a reasonable price close to what the Chevy's cost aftermarket. With a little work these Olds Speedmaster flow
.100 73
.200 146
.300 207
.400 247
.500 270
.600 288
.700 301

Unlike Iron aluminum is soft and easier to modify to the required flow, which might be less than those numbers.

Bernard says they flow
Valve Lift Port #1 Port #3 Port #5 Port #7
100 67.02 64.51 64.15 66.09
200 140.00 132.48 132.48 140.00
300 187.80 189.20 189.29 196.75
400 225.07 226.56 222.08 244.44
500 233.71 229.54 236.10 245.63
550 239.08 232.52 229.54 250.40
600 241.46 234.01 231.03 251.00
650 240.27 236.99 232.52 250.40
Smitty said out of the box stock

.100 70
.200 143
.300 205
.400 227
.500 231
.600 235
Those are not bad flow numbers for a fairly streetable or stock type BBOs, and greatly exceed stock SBO's numbers.


Ported G production 455 head



.200 158
.300 213
.400 251
.500 270
.550 274
.600 275

Tested @ 28 inches SF 600 2.100 valve, 4.155 bore.

Last edited by VORTECPRO; December 13th, 2018 at 05:44 AM.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by VORTECPRO View Post
Ported G production 455 head



.200 158
.300 213
.400 251
.500 270
.550 274
.600 275

Tested @ 28 inches SF 600 2.100 valve, 4.155 bore.
You cant compare ported to unported, as most of the numbers were I posted, so what were the G heads unported , for an apples to apples?? Ported it doesn't take much work, to beat the steel ported numbers. There is about a 40lbs weight savings, as well with the aluminum. Aluminum intake and water pump, as well, totals up to about 110 pounds saved all together.

The first BBOs steel ported heads I saw 40+ years ago came from Valley and featured 2.25 intakes valves. 1.60 on the exhaust.


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Old December 13th, 2018, 10:46 AM
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My trouble is that these companies don’t cast a ported version of a vastly improved head for Oldsmobile’s,

Saying that the stock heads flow “well enough” for BBO is a joke to me, when I compare what production GM truck engines’ heads flow for 366c.i. engines......

Ok, we can make moderate-higher horsepower with big cams and mediocre heads.... but why not do better?

It would be nice to make 550hp+ with a mild 220-230 duration cam and 9:1 compression, and at less than 5500rpm.

A really good head/cam/intake combo should make this easily capable.

Adding compression to get up in the 12-13:1 range, add a roller cam in the 240-260 duration @ .050 and these same as-cast-improved heads should push in the 650-680hp at 6-6,500 rpm range if all is correct. It seems like most Olds engines with bigger cams ([email protected]) and high compression struggle hard to get over 600hp.


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Old December 13th, 2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Battenrunner View Post
My trouble is that these companies don’t cast a ported version of a vastly improved head for Oldsmobile’s,

Saying that the stock heads flow “well enough” for BBO is a joke to me, when I compare what production GM truck engines’ heads flow for 366c.i. engines......

Ok, we can make moderate-higher horsepower with big cams and mediocre heads.... but why not do better?

It would be nice to make 550hp+ with a mild 220-230 duration cam and 9:1 compression, and at less than 5500rpm.

A really good head/cam/intake combo should make this easily capable.

Adding compression to get up in the 12-13:1 range, add a roller cam in the 240-260 duration @ .050 and these same as-cast-improved heads should push in the 650-680hp at 6-6,500 rpm range if all is correct. It seems like most Olds engines with bigger cams ([email protected]) and high compression struggle hard to get over 600hp.


Gotcha. Think of it like the one size carb versus multiple sizes of carbs. Also of note are the multiple sizes of aftermarkets heads intakes, such as 210cc,220cc,230cc depending on what ya want. Evidently more and bigger is not always better, for all usages, or sizes, or RPMs.

A lot of things go wrong when trying to RPM them which we call horsepower. The crank turns into a wet noodle(@BTR), the bearing speeds and sizes are all wrong. and more, and it all eats horsepower or high rpm torque. An Olds is not a FORD, Chevy, or Chrysler. Its mainly a torque motor and less rpm dependent, unless you want to spend 20-30,000 dollars on morphing it into them. But few want this, and many a torque motor has beaten a high rpm other brand RPM motor with higher horsepower in drag racing. I look at torque and where it happens and not horsepower.


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Old December 13th, 2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Battenrunner View Post
My trouble is that these companies don’t cast a ported version of a vastly improved head for Oldsmobile’s,

Saying that the stock heads flow “well enough” for BBO is a joke to me, when I compare what production GM truck engines’ heads flow for 366c.i. engines......

Ok, we can make moderate-higher horsepower with big cams and mediocre heads.... but why not do better?

It would be nice to make 550hp+ with a mild 220-230 duration cam and 9:1 compression, and at less than 5500rpm.

A really good head/cam/intake combo should make this easily capable.

Adding compression to get up in the 12-13:1 range, add a roller cam in the 240-260 duration @ .050 and these same as-cast-improved heads should push in the 650-680hp at 6-6,500 rpm range if all is correct. It seems like most Olds engines with bigger cams ([email protected]) and high compression struggle hard to get over 600hp.


Calm Down! Its going to be a nice day But you are right!
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Old December 13th, 2018, 02:06 PM
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What he is saying is right. Im still confused why they designed an aftermarket LS1 block that has LS1 heads but uses first gen sbc rotating assemble and hardware. Why not desigh an LS1 style head that fits the first gen block, So that being said, I do believe someone could cast an "LS7" style head that bolts to the factory OLDS block. Or any other block. Its so easy it might just work!
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Old December 13th, 2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by VORTECPRO View Post
Ported G production 455 head



.200 158
.300 213
.400 251
.500 270
.550 274
.600 275

Tested @ 28 inches SF 600 2.100 valve, 4.155 bore.
Maybe some day our friend will tell you about the C casting that we made flow over 300 CFM on my stingy bench. I think you would be shocked how easy it is with some creative machine work.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ChevyZ06 View Post
What he is saying is right. Im still confused why they designed an aftermarket LS1 block that has LS1 heads but uses first gen sbc rotating assemble and hardware. Why not desigh an LS1 style head that fits the first gen block, So that being said, I do believe someone could cast an "LS7" style head that bolts to the factory OLDS block. Or any other block. Its so easy it might just work!
4.4 bore spacings versus 4.65 bore spacing.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ChevyZ06 View Post
Maybe some day our friend will tell you about the C casting that we made flow over 300 CFM on my stingy bench. I think you would be shocked how easy it is with some creative machine work.
Yeah, just use the port designs, and great chamber and valvetrain for an LS7 Head, spaced out for 4.625 bore spacing, and the exhaust port design for an LS7 as well. Make the valve cover rail a 10 bolt Olds rail, sell them complete, ready to run for $2300 a set including the intake, flowing 350+cfm at .650 lift.

Hopefully you can fly up to Colorado sometime in the next year, meet Vortecpro Mark, and we can all bench race in person, and go to the ‘strip so you can see what it’s like to race at 8000’ D.A.

Maybe we should even have a “port-off” competition to see who can get what numbers out of their best heads, then have someone volunteer a Dyno to baseline a well built shortblock 455 engine with stock C heads to compete and try out the best ported heads for comparison.

Last edited by Battenrunner; December 13th, 2018 at 05:23 PM.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 05:46 PM
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I think what's being forgotten here is that when it comes to big blocks, short of a $5000.00 block from Rocket, we just don't have the platform to support anything over about 650 anyway. Not unless you put in lots of band-aids on the stocker.
I made 622 with [email protected] Edelbrocks on a 480 stroker short block. If you use the right combo you can make decent power with what we have today. But again much beyond that, if you're using the stock block you'll just be scattering pieces everywhere anyway.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
I think what's being forgotten here is that when it comes to big blocks, short of a $5000.00 block from Rocket, we just don't have the platform to support anything over about 650 anyway. Not unless you put in lots of band-aids on the stocker.
I made 622 with [email protected] Edelbrocks on a 480 stroker short block. If you use the right combo you can make decent power with what we have today. But again much beyond that, if you're using the stock block you'll just be scattering pieces everywhere anyway.

So, I think I see what you are saying, we just need to have a custom light billet crank and a set of pistons made so we can use the LS7 titanium rods and keep it under 7,000rpm..... with a stock block,right?

:-)

Last edited by Battenrunner; December 13th, 2018 at 06:44 PM.
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