the little engine that could . finally died
May 19th, 2012, 10:48 AM
#1
the little engine that could . finally died
The other day i had the olds out and i stomped on it i was hearing some bad noise in the high rpms. So i thought it was the new water pump no biggie i put the moroso electric drive to rule it out. The noise was still there. i checked flex plate, converter, trans rear end,. Then i ran it with the valve covers of and help the rpms at 3k rpm and heard it. Its starting to knock and while im driving i hear a squeeking noise from the engine im thinking i spun a rod bearing. The other weird thing is the end play when the engine is in a certain place it will move back and forth and certain spots it wont. Im actually happy it's dying. It was built with used stuff and and honed and polished in the garage. It ran 13.3's at 103 with the wrong carb and converter. This was the summer i was gonna make it run 12's. For a short block that had 800 bucks in it., it held up more than i thought. Im now building a .030 over 350 to replace it and it is getting treated to all the good stuff balancing machining the works. I also think the new converter possibly killed it . i wont know till i pull it out and apart. currently trying to locate a running sbo to just drive on.
May 19th, 2012, 04:14 PM
#2
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The other day i had the olds out and i stomped on it i was hearing some bad noise in the high rpms. So i thought it was the new water pump no biggie i put the moroso electric drive to rule it out. The noise was still there. i checked flex plate, converter, trans rear end,. Then i ran it with the valve covers of and help the rpms at 3k rpm and heard it. Its starting to knock and while im driving i hear a squeeking noise from the engine im thinking i spun a rod bearing. The other weird thing is the end play when the engine is in a certain place it will move back and forth and certain spots it wont. Im actually happy it's dying. It was built with used stuff and and honed and polished in the garage. It ran 13.3's at 103 with the wrong carb and converter. This was the summer i was gonna make it run 12's. For a short block that had 800 bucks in it., it held up more than i thought. Im now building a .030 over 350 to replace it and it is getting treated to all the good stuff balancing machining the works. I also think the new converter possibly killed it . i wont know till i pull it out and apart. currently trying to locate a running sbo to just drive on.
You act like all the machine work you're going to have done to the new one is a luxury. It's really a necessity, that's why this one didn't last.
Jmo
Last edited by cutlassefi; May 19th, 2012 at 04:17 PM.
May 19th, 2012, 05:33 PM
#3
Well it is a luxury because I don't have money pouring out of my pocket. I do what I can with what money allows at the time. For what I had in it it was damn well impressive. The reason I think the converter killed it was the short block could not handle that abuse. With the tight converter it was fine but launching it at 3000 rpm probably didn't help it
May 19th, 2012, 05:56 PM
#4
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Well it is a luxury because I don't have money pouring out of my pocket. I do what I can with what money allows at the time. For what I had in it it was damn well impressive. The reason I think the converter killed it was the short block could not handle that abuse. With the tight converter it was fine but launching it at 3000 rpm probably didn't help it
May 19th, 2012, 10:06 PM
#6
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May 19th, 2012, 10:46 PM
#7
thanks rickman48 i have a line on one here., hopefully it works out if not time will be my friend in finishing my current 350 shotblock . To everyone else im not complaining im actually happy. I finally know how much abuse a "junkyard build" will take. My whole purpose is to push the limits of things most people wont attempt. Im young dont have much but im willing to do what it take and take chance on things to see how far i can push things. Alot of people told me i had a 12 sec car. I could not afford the right carb and converter and when i had it., it finally gave up when i had it right . But for around 3k i found i could have a low 13 sec engine that lasts a whole year of abuse which is more than what some people can say., when some of their engine's dies within the first 1000 miles. I drove it hard and i wanted to push it to it's limits im not easy on my equipment . Im not bitter in the least bit. 3k was a small price to pay when 2000 of it was in the top end and is re usable.
Last edited by coppercutlass; May 19th, 2012 at 10:58 PM.
May 21st, 2012, 09:17 PM
#8
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Sorry to hear the little engine that could, doesn't anymore.
I know where you are coming from when you say you built it with a limited budget in a garage yourself. Give you credit there, alot of these guys don't build their engines, port their heads, build their transmissions etc they pay other people to do it for them and then they go around on the internet telling others how to build their stuff.
And of course you got your run of the mill, internet engine builders that make the rounds to all the Oldsmobile message boards, that are willing to learn how to build an Oldsmobile engine with your money.
You been around long enough to know who to ask for advice, and where to find answers to any questions you might have.
Everybody has an opinion and/or advice, it's you that has to read and then make the right decisions.
Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
Teach a man how to fish, you won't have to give him anymore fish.
I know where you are coming from when you say you built it with a limited budget in a garage yourself. Give you credit there, alot of these guys don't build their engines, port their heads, build their transmissions etc they pay other people to do it for them and then they go around on the internet telling others how to build their stuff.
And of course you got your run of the mill, internet engine builders that make the rounds to all the Oldsmobile message boards, that are willing to learn how to build an Oldsmobile engine with your money.
You been around long enough to know who to ask for advice, and where to find answers to any questions you might have.
Everybody has an opinion and/or advice, it's you that has to read and then make the right decisions.
Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
Teach a man how to fish, you won't have to give him anymore fish.
May 23rd, 2012, 10:46 PM
#9
Thanks for the compliment i think lol. Im stopping by the machine shop thursday to drop of two blocks one is bored but its pitted might be able to get saved one is standard and could be bored and to also check up on the rotating assembly . I just got a new job and my schedule is all screwed up . At this time i think im going to build a nice little screeming short block set up for a small shot on nitrous 100 and thats about it. I want nice driver on the street and a screamer at the track low to mid 12's on the juice i want high 12's n/a . Im going to talk to john at rocket racing who did my heads about a customs hyd. roller since he did my heads or a custom flat tappet cam depending on what budget allows .
May 24th, 2012, 07:04 PM
#10
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Thanks.
May 25th, 2012, 05:44 PM
#11
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Sorry to hear about your engine that could. Again, some of the best running engines that I have seen were garage grown.
Take your time on this motor and double check all of the clearances because as in any thing; there is human error.
I also would be interested in the cam recommendation.
Take your time on this motor and double check all of the clearances because as in any thing; there is human error.
I also would be interested in the cam recommendation.
May 25th, 2012, 06:35 PM
#12
The machine shop is almost done. This will take all summer to build. The machining alone is gonna set me back 800. The block I got with the .030 engine is gone one of the cylinders was heavily pitted for poor storage from the previous owner. So I have to have a std. Block bored out.
May 27th, 2012, 10:27 PM
#13
ok guys im at a crossroads, im debating on wether or not to run the luntai 496/520 cam or i found a well priced cam from howards cams at just 109 for it here is the specs what do you guys think. I really cant afford a custom cam as much as i want to. The goal is to build it and keep it around 1500 so far machining is gonna be around 800 parts minus cam are 305. budget is key here i just bought a house so play money is limited. Another thing is what if i run my old cam what should i look for is it worth it to run it again ? Here are the specs on the howards cam 512/512 lift with 227/233 duration @ .050 lift with a 110 lobe seperation . Im also going to have to have a good converter or have mine reworked to not take any chances.
May 28th, 2012, 04:38 AM
#14
Seasoned beater pilot.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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My recommendation is....either, you need to come up with a bigger budget, or a low milage 65-70 big block, and open up the clearances.
The pistons, rod reconditioning, and overbore alone on a N/A 12ish second 350 will put you over budget.
Cheap, and impatient, have never worked well for me. I'd fix the little engine that could if I wanted to race this year.
The pistons, rod reconditioning, and overbore alone on a N/A 12ish second 350 will put you over budget.
Cheap, and impatient, have never worked well for me. I'd fix the little engine that could if I wanted to race this year.
May 28th, 2012, 06:59 AM
#15
well im building a .030 350 i bought at a swap meet that wiped out a cam lobe . To bring it up to code is running me 800. I know impatient and cheap dont work. Im trying to get the new shorblock done but not sacrafice a thing. Im on a tight budget but i think i can make it work with what i got. Im not starting from scratch here the .030 350 came with forged flat tops .
May 28th, 2012, 04:09 PM
#19
Yes the machine shop told me I should go with ne rod bolts. I'm building it and I will make sure all my clearances are good. I did check it on the last engine but again the parts can only go so far. I need this one to last the last one was meant to be replaced and lasted longer than I thought.
May 28th, 2012, 04:50 PM
#21
I have 1500 invested into my top end. That's the hard part to let go of. My exhaust and headers are all sbo. I know w/bbo's I would not be able to line up my exhaust perfect if i went to bbo. I might be able to build a bbo for the same price but everything else around it would have to be changed and price goes up .
Last edited by coppercutlass; May 28th, 2012 at 08:49 PM.
June 19th, 2012, 09:01 AM
#24
well im happy to say that my engine died becasue it just failed. The crank is bent according to my local olds racer. Only one rod bearing was bad and it did not spin the journal didn't even look that bad compared to the bearing it was the #2 rod bearing. The #4 main journal was also wiped out along with the very back side of the number 5 where the oil pump goes. It also had # cracked piston skirts one which obviouly was curved in as it was hitting something. They where the number 5 7 & 8 pistons. All the other bearings showed normal wear. I might add oil psi was still good when i parked it .
June 21st, 2012, 02:38 PM
#26
The pistons are cast. They do NOT like heavy abuse or the high rpm.
The main bearings problems, probably from out of balance.And dirt in the sys.
If you say the bearings are "beat to death" is from detonation.
Gene
The main bearings problems, probably from out of balance.And dirt in the sys.
If you say the bearings are "beat to death" is from detonation.
Gene
June 21st, 2012, 02:42 PM
#27
Yes but it's only the number 2 rod and 4 main bearings, and its on both the top side and bottom of the bearing. I though if it detonated it would beat up only the top side.
June 21st, 2012, 04:08 PM
#30
Either way it was fun while it lasted. And I got my moneys worth. The new engine is being balanced and I'm checking all my clearances and probably just installing studs for cheap insurance I figure I'm gonna hold off this year and build it right. I have a 307 in there now just to drive it.
June 24th, 2012, 08:26 PM
#31
btw guys i though i might add i actually pulled the crank out yesterday. The bottom side of the #4 main bearing was the only one that was gone out of all the main bearings.
June 25th, 2012, 10:23 PM
#32
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Why is it that when someone breaks their engine others shortly follow? I popped a head gasket on Sunday...motor is already out, heads are heading (lol) to machine shop tomorrow morning for?
Although not as bad as yours, it's all the same damn work...
Although not as bad as yours, it's all the same damn work...
June 25th, 2012, 11:08 PM
#35
it never stops. Im just about done buttoning up the 307 i bought to just drive around in. Woooooo i hope the headers x pipe and under drive pulleys help it at the track lol it's gonna need it .
July 3rd, 2012, 03:12 AM
#36
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Aww, sad to hear that little 350 finally ate it. It is a fitting end though, it deserves none other than an honorable warriors death haha. I do, however, see the extra machine work and money spent on the new mill as a luxury rather than a necessity. If it were a necessity this motor would have never worked at all, thats kinda the definition of "necessity". I loved this motor because it proved that you dont have to dump loads of money on a motor to make it perform. Sure the motor was a budget build, and sure it eventually failed, but whos to say it failed because of the in-house machine work or certain build materials? Who can for sure 100% say a motor with better machine work and more expensive materials wouldnt have failed the exact same way at the exact same time just by the same chance this one did? I get so tired of hearing "you gotta pay to play" and its just simply not true. Yes, a $12,000 motor will have a much better chance to live longer than a $4000 motor, but still, its just a chance and theres no guaranteeing that cheaper motor will blow before the more expensive one. Its never a definite science. Ever. Now im not saying everyone should be doing budget builds, and i do not recommend it, but my message to people is to not be scared away from it if its something youve seriously considered
Sorry to go go off on a mini-rant haha. Anyway, seems to me like the piston skirts got torn up when the crank got bent, altered the angle and started forcing the pistons against the cylinder walls at weird angles, stressing, warping, and eventually cracking. Sad to see this little motor go but we're all interested in what youve got planned next! Good luck!
Sorry to go go off on a mini-rant haha. Anyway, seems to me like the piston skirts got torn up when the crank got bent, altered the angle and started forcing the pistons against the cylinder walls at weird angles, stressing, warping, and eventually cracking. Sad to see this little motor go but we're all interested in what youve got planned next! Good luck!
Last edited by Vega; July 3rd, 2012 at 03:29 AM.
July 3rd, 2012, 12:47 PM
#37
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Anyway, seems to me like the piston skirts got torn up when the crank got bent, altered the angle and started forcing the pistons against the cylinder walls at weird angles, stressing, warping, and eventually cracking. Sad to see this little motor go but we're all interested in what youve got planned next! Good luck!
If you're not racing the crap out of an engine I would put cast pistons in it so you can run a tighter wall clearance. If you are racing the crap out of it then I would use a better quality, lighter piston and steer clear of the TRW's.
July 3rd, 2012, 12:56 PM
#38
I have the trw's I got my new shortblock for 500 with them. It needed machining and what not. It's pretty much set in stone. I do beat the tar out of my stuff. In the last 4 years u blew up 3 rear ends so to speak. I bent one housing and bent 2 axles on diffrent set ups.
July 3rd, 2012, 01:19 PM
#39
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That's odd...I have more power and race quite often and I'm still running the factory 10 bolt that I had put 3.42 Richmonds and an Auburn posi in 1997. It's still holding up.
I wouldn't say you're any harder on your stuff than I am, but if you shortcut it on the front side you'll pay for it on the back side. I'm still using the rearend that was built 15 years ago for $750...imagine if I had shortcut it and had to build it over and over...I'm just saying.
There are plenty of guys giving great advice...but it doesn't seem like anyone is listening: "Better be wise by the misfortunes of others than by your own." - Aesop
I wouldn't say you're any harder on your stuff than I am, but if you shortcut it on the front side you'll pay for it on the back side. I'm still using the rearend that was built 15 years ago for $750...imagine if I had shortcut it and had to build it over and over...I'm just saying.
There are plenty of guys giving great advice...but it doesn't seem like anyone is listening: "Better be wise by the misfortunes of others than by your own." - Aesop
