High 11s

Could use some advice on Edelbrock cylinder heads.

I am wondering if the latest version 60519 with heart shaped chambers make more power than the early version with a more rounded chamber PN 6051.

Reason I ask is that a gentleman locally has an early set for sale - how much power would I be giving up vs the newer design.

Does anyone have experience with both designs?

They would be going on my 1970 442 that currently has stock E heads. I've searched and found conflicting stories - some claim no power gain with the Ebrock heads, other say 50+ hp gain, but no indication early or later version.

I have very little experience with Oldsmobile engines so would appreciate some experienced help.

Thanks!

815Cutlass1972

I have the earlier style Edelbrock heads on my Olds 461 wifh a little port work. Is your engine pretty much stock? I think I've seen the ad for those heads your talking about. If so you can get New Pro-comps from Bernard Mondello for just a little bit more money.

cutlassefi

I do the Procomps as well. Done a bunch of them with no issues. And fwiw it's pretty easy to make 500ish with them and the right combo.

wr1970

Why not answer the op question if you can.

cutlassefi

Uhhh, what do you think the bold print is?

wr1970

A sale pitch is what i think. He ask for advice on a pair of E brock heads nothing about pro comps. The engine you recently built you said that the e brocks were better than you thought.Why didn't you say the 500 is easy with E brocks also with right combo and more. Word sales pitch.

wr1970

I think there is a gain by switching to E brocks from irons on your year of engine. I also have a 1970 442 that had irons. Now has E brocks with the early chambers.

wr1970

Have you thought about having your E heads reworked/ported? Every thing depends on combo not just one part swap.JMO I have a buddy who runs mid 11's 118 mph with ported e heads in a 1965 f 85. Car would be street able with exhaust system.

High 11s

Thanks very much for your comments!

Yes the car is pretty much stock - mild cam and performer (just installed) intake.

I've had the car 3 years, and not sure of CR or the cam specs. Looks like it has about .490 lift and idles well at 800rpm with 17 inches of vacuum but needs 30 deg of advance (initial plus non ported vacuum advance) to idle smooth. My guess is 220 deg at 0.050.

Car does run better with the performer intake especially 4000-5400 rpm, but I also installed new valve springs so not sure which change improved performance.

Exhaust manifolds are a bit mismatched - 1966 W passenger side and 1982ish 307 cid driver side with 1.9 inch outlet!! Then stock size 2inch exhaust system.
I plan to install headers and 2 1/2 inch exhaust next year.

So now the cylinder heads- yes Pro Comps are an option.

wr1970 - I had planned, as you suggest to just cleanup my E heads, however the cost of filling the crossovers, welding exhaust dividers, guides and a valve job is going to be close to the cost of used Ebrock heads......

When I look at the Edelbrock heads they don't look much better than the E heads, but I have not seen the bowl area yet.

So cost is close - reworked E heads vs used Edelbrock heads - will the Ebrock heads make significantly more power???? Having trouble deciding!!

Thanks for your help!

James

High 11s

wr1970......based on your experience, what kind of power gain do you think the early chamber E brocks gave you?

High 11s

Thanks Mark......and for your comments on old vs new, 30 vs 50hp makes more sense to me.

wr1970

The e brock are not the same as a E head. With a exhaust and head change you will feel a difference. Choose what ever heads you want. Hard to compare when cost of the heads you are looking at is unknown. On a side note Dave the freak can tell you what it cost for the Irons to be reworked/ported. He is on this site.

cutlassefi

Because the early Edelbrocks have the same chamber as the Procomps. Flow is about the same as well.
I'm done continually explaining myself and the obvious to you over and over.

cutlassefi

You're very welcome. Best of luck in your project.

My442

Bill Trovato told me the new Edelbrock heads are worth up to 50 HP over stock heads.

And, you lose at least 50 pounds in the process.

wr1970

I don't think you are correct in your statement if you got a beef pm me. I am intitled to give a opinion and i did.

cutlassefi

You didn't give an opinion. You basically just criticized my statement, plain and simple.

cutlassefi

Did he post dyno sheets on a back to back test? If so if like to see those if you can find that.

wr1970

Whatever. You want a phone number you can call pm me i will furnish you my number. I am trying to give you a options so you can discuss this so call criticizing. Over and out.

Troys Toy 70

I don't usually step into these conversations, but I will say I bought my procomps off of Mark. In a couple of weeks we will know the results. Mark and I talked about my build, what I was doing and discussed both Procomps and E-Brock's. He did not pressure me in anyway and gave me both the plus and minuses of the choices. Too much is lost in our electronic conversations, when compared to direct communications. If the OP want to contact Mark, I believe he will have a similar experience.

Here are a couple of pictures of the heads

67 Cutlass Freak

High11s said "I had planned, as you suggest to just cleanup my E heads, however the cost of filling the crossovers, welding exhaust dividers, guides and a valve job is going to be close to the cost of used Ebrock heads......

When I look at the Edelbrock heads they don't look much better than the E heads, but I have not seen the bowl area yet."

JMHO - Mark has shown that he can make some power. Key to making power is in the whole package. First thing you need to do is ditch the stock exhaust manifolds for headers. The work you described above would run you close to $850 with new valves. That is about what a set of used, early casting Edelbrocks sells for. Just remember they may need work as well. The valve job and bowl work is the key to performance gains. To do a set of cast iron heads fully ported that flow better than the Edelbrocks, with all new, components costs about $1600.
Hope this helps, Dave - The Freak

cutlassefi

I'm proposing changes to the Edelbrock heads;

A 2.125 intake
Redo end water jackets to accept scalloping them to fit small blocks.
More meat in-between vc rails and rocker stud bosses in order to be able to raise the intake entry.

Any other ideas?

wr1970

I think that this would help the small block guy a lot. You sure have a lot of irons in the fire for the Olds hobby! I hope all these things you are doing come to reality.

815Cutlass1972

Good job. I hope this works out! What would be the proposed standard CC for the small block Edelbrock heads?

High 11s

Thanks very much Dave....this is what I was concerned about. Makes the Edelbrock heads (used) more attractive, of course they will likely need a valve job as well.

I completely agree with you suggestion to install headers first.

For now I'll stick with my stock E heads, in fact I am actually looking forward to see how fast I can get the car to run with stock heads....for now!!
James

High 11s

[QUOTE=Troys Toy 70;974465]I don't usually step into these conversations, but I will say I bought my procomps off of Mark. In a couple of weeks we will know the results. Mark and I talked about my build, what I was doing and discussed both Procomps and E-Brock's. He did not pressure me in anyway and gave me both the plus and minuses of the choices. Too much is lost in our electronic conversations, when compared to direct communications. If the OP want to contact Mark, I believe he will have a similar experience.

Troys Toy 70.......thanks very much for the pictures....I must say those heads look very nice! Convinced me to just hold off buying used heads for now.

Cutlassefi....Excellent work on your procomps....is it possible to add two grooves on the top of each exhaust port like factory heads? Maybe on a milling machine....paint them blue ....might look stock at a glance.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Next steps are posi traction and headers....see how it runs!

James

VORTECPRO

Just to keep things real:

118 MPH @ 3300 pounds 417 crankshaft HP
118 MPH @ 3500 pounds 443 crankshaft HP

VORTECPRO

"Mark has shown that he can make some power."



Dave

Mark has built engines, But I have yet to see any of the dyno data he presents ever backed up at a dragstrip. Now if you or any of his customers have MPH over 1320 feet at a known weight that backs up any of these dyno tests please show us all, I will be the first to give him credit. If I asked the same question of Travoto I'am sure he could show some back up of his dyno data from track testing.

wr1970

Not sure why this thread was dug up. All I can say is Mark has helped many on this site. He has gone a long way to explaining in and out on subjects. I really wanted see see that 480 in a car going to a track. My gut feeling is it would have done very well. After Mylan gave his thoughts about the 480 build nothing more to say . Mark built a very good combo. I look forward to Mark's next build as he post them.

VORTECPRO

I agree, Mark is helpful, and I also look forward to his builds, but have questioned his data and would just like to see the performance to back the data up. When I came on the forum seen years ago my dyno numbers were always questioned by a certain forum, and actually the members didn't even understand how a dyno arives at a given number. So I thought what will they understand? "Performance" can't be questioned...........MPH over 1320 feet @ a known weight. So I built a car, a car like many had on that forum, I tested my dyno tuned engines in that car..........and well the rest is history, I don't get many detractors anymore. My point is.........maybe cutlas EFI should consider doing the same.

cutlassefi

Thanks for your support Neely. I appreciate it,

VORTECAMATEUR
If you want to continue to beat this dead horse, then 2 can play at this game. I don't see how whatever my customers do or don't do with these engines has anything to do with me.
SO, moving forward I will post the below link every time you want to question my abilities or the information I post. It clearly shows how much of a moron you really are, or at the very least that you have severe tunnel vision, which I've mentioned before. Must be a Chevy guy thing huh!
Fact - Every engine, every engine combination, every pull you've ever done, the hp and tq ALWAYS crossed at 5252 and yet you NEVER noticed it, NEVER. It doesn't happen sometimes, it happens all the time, but you NEVER picked up on it. WOW! This WAS in your control, unlike my circumstances, yet you NEVER picked up on it.And you're going to throw stones at me?
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/real...me-t16447.html

In addition any time you question ANY dyno sheet, mine or others, I will post this link again and again.
Granted you have a nice shop, but that doesn't mean you really know how to use everything. I think this link proves that and the fact that you're not nearly as smart as you'd like people to think you are.

Have a nice day VTA.

VORTECPRO

I'am kind of afraid to ask..........but can you define what a VORTECAMATEUR is? LOL

Fun71

Ya know, I am a completely disinterested outsider to all of this, and I am completely put off by the resurrection of a 4 year old thread just to bash a forum member. I mean, the mods will close a thread if it even smells political, but this banty rooster BS is allowed?

wr1970

I agree that is why I ask why was this thread dug up. I am glad you are pointing this out.

VORTECPRO

I didn't realize this thread was 4 years old. VORTECAMaTEUR

cutlassefi

I did realize it was an old thread. Even at that VTA fired the first shot across the bow. I simply responded. But I’ll consider the circumstances next time. Sorry WR and Fun.

wr1970

Mark you are good . I just was thinking what is the point of digging and re-hashing . Your efforts to help the hobby doesn't go unnoticed by me. To resolve the car at track problem i am going to use your advice and try do get close the results you got on your 480 build. I told you in a different thread i needed to call you last fall. Thanks again for contact info . I hope I can come close . Phone call coming soon . Working on a different 455 right now . Soon as it is done I will follow up with you.. Everyone have a great day.

VORTECPRO

Are you going to the track with help from Mark? Track performance always sets the record strait. Battenrunner should have his Olds done this summer, followed up with track testing. Looking at your album, are you in Kansas? Looks like you do some racing, and not far from me. Never mind, "Rocket Vapor" answered all my questions. Hows that coming?

wr1970

I am working to get engine for Rocket Vapor ready. I am doing two engines at the same time. Also having two transmissions done. As well as a engine swap. While work on two clunkers i want to sell. I am up to my ears in projects.Friday one 455 goes to machine shop. I hope you understand I am going racing even if I do not get Rocket Vapor done I have two other cars i can race. I am done with this thread.

VORTECPRO

I hope all works out well for you!






"You are entitled to think what you want but you are wrong.I drag race i am interested in down track results.This thread is about those heads on a race engine.I have no agenda except what i stated as what i am looking for. That is info from guys using these heads on a race engine down the track in a 1/4 mi. with ET and MPH. no dyno. I thought we could discuss what the other info is on there combo if you would give this thread a chance Captjim."


We have a older drag racer here.....God bless you!