Jameskilcer

Ok so i have a 66 442 hardtop, and i have been doing a lot of digging into the authenticity of it. So i was informed by a prievious owner of some of the history (as i personally know him i believe him) the car is a 442 option as it has the heavy duty frame option, and i was told that it was originally a tricarb/4 speed car. However by the time he aquired it the car had been all stripped several times, the tricarb was gone trans was changed to a th400 and all sorts of other $hit. The part that gets me is it appears to have had a full factory a/c system either put in or it came that way. Now i was always told by the "old timers" that a/c never came in a manual car... could it be that somone got a dealership to install ac into it (its an arizona car so thats not too big of a strech).... or do you suppose somone put it in durring one of its several chop jobs... the older gent who sold it to me amd told me ots history can only ever it being an ac car so we are stumped on that. So that leaves me tl my final question.. being that im dumping all this $ into replacing the 400 tricarb and the manual should i keep the ac (i do like ac) or would it be safer to assume that its not factory and put in just a heater unit?...

RandyS

IMO it depends on what you are trying to achieve, perfectly correct or fun driver. If you live in AZ, and want to drive it in the summer, I would opt for the AC.

aliensatemybuick

Thornton restorations sold a documented 66 4bbl car, 4 speed with factory AC at the Atlantic City car auction in the early 2000s (can't recall the exact year). Jim Stohlman told me years back as well that he once had an L69 car with AC, and that he even added ramair to it (not sure how that've worked though!). So AC and manual shift were def. not mutually exclusive, and probably not Tricarbs and AC either.

Finally, there was actually such a thing as dealer installed, factory-appearing AC in that era as well.

joe_padavano

Those statements are unrelated. The HD frame did NOT come with the 442 option. It was available on ANY 1966 F-85 or Cutlass (except converts and VCs, which already came with a boxed frame) under RPO F35, a $12.53 option.

So basically neither you nor he know what equipment was on the car from the factory...

And that would also be incorrect. The A/C was not available with the 308 deg cam (1966-67 W-30 and 1968-70 W-31) nor with the 328 deg cam (1968-70 W-30). In addition, the 1969 W-32 was not available with A/C due to the O.A.I. hose being in the way of the A/C compressor.

Those are the ONLY cars that were not available with A/C. In 1970, only the MT W-30s used the 328 cam, with AT cars getting the 285/287 cam. THIS is why A/C was available in a W-30 with the AT STARTING WITH THAT YEAR. The prior year W-30s were unavailable with A/C with any trans. Do not confuse cam vacuum restrictions with the AT/MT issue. A/C was available with the MT, but rear axle choices were restricted.

Jameskilcer

Not to be a naysayer... but its a 66.. not a 70, or a 69.. and its not a w30 so the oai is not even in the picture.. i know tricarb cars could come with ac but they were always on auto as far as i could see.. and yes i know the hd frame is not INDICATIVE of a 442 but from everything i can find it it was equiped on all 442s. Yes i know i am going off of hearsay but its from a man who grew up with all the prievious owners.. so i trust what he says

hurst68olds

What's on the body tag? Got a pic?


IIRC '66 tri-power was 4-speed only
442s do NOT have the HD boxed frame STANDARD, they have boxed lower control arms STANDARD - big difference.

steverw

I had a 67 non W30 4 speed when i was 19. Im 61 now, so i know it was all original. I bought it from a female school teacher who was the original owner, not that that matters, but it had factory air. I have 3 67 442's now, previously had 2 others, and non of them have/had the heavy duty frame. I dont know about 66's but i expect their similar in options available.

cherokeepeople

to change from a non a/c firewall to an a/c firewall would take some major hacking.

Diego

There's no shame being a naysayer, as you're trying to find out information and you're trying to vet the info that's been provided. However, you should also vet the information you've been told by "oldtimers" and anyone else because I would venture to guess that they have more bad information than what's been posted here.

joe_padavano

Apparently you were confused by my response, so I'll try again. These answers all apply to the 1966 model year ONLY.

1) A/C was factory available on EVERY car with a manual transmission EXCEPT the fatory-built 1966 W-30s that came with the 308 deg cam, as there was not enough vacuum to operate the HVAC flapper doors. Since your car was NOT a W-30, A/C WAS factory-available for it.

2) The HD frame option was NOT included in the 442 package, except on convertibles, since the "HD frame" was simply the boxed convertible frame that came under every convertible. It WAS factory available on ANY other F-85/Cutlass that year. I've attached the applicable page from the Salesman's SPECS manual.

3) I've listened to too many people who "remembered" stuff from 50 years ago inaccurately. Sorry, but factory literature trumps a questionable memory any day in my book. In the case of your car, unless it was built at the Fremont plant, the cowl tag will show a 5V or 5VY if the car is a real 442. Unfortunately, Fremont cars did not get this code, which is why those are frequently cloned.

4) All of this is irrelevant for your car, because back to your original question, the A/C was almost certainly factory installed.



Note the description of the L78 package above. I suspect you are thinking that "heavy duty chassis items" means the frame. It does not. As the 442 brochure below indicates, the heavy duty items are the rear axle, suspension, and sway bars. The frame was still an extra-cost option, as seen above. Olds was very specific in the option descriptions to spell out the "not available" restrictions on options, especially where such equipment was already included in other RPO codes or models (like the HD frame N/A with convertible, since it was already included).

Jameskilcer

From what ive been reading the hd and the hd convertabke frame are different... and after hoing to the classic junkyard i know this to be true. This is where im getting all my info from on the frame http://442restoration.homestead.com/65specs.html

From everything i saw first hand the information in this article is atleast mostly accurate.

As for my decision with the confirmation that the car very well could have been factory ac and mostlikely was im going to keep it. I can only go off of what im told on this car as the firewall plate has no option codes and i was unable to find no documentation on the cars originality.

joe_padavano

1965 cars aren't 1966...

More to the point, the pictures from the website you linked aren't even showing the boxed HD frame option. All 1965 442s got the different tabs for the suspension. That is unrelated to the HD frame option. It's also unrelated to your 1966 car.

Jameskilcer

The site goes over 65-67 and not a boxed frame... there are a few differences in the frames. I checked the numbers given on the site out and they hold true all the way up to 67. Im aware the boxed frames are different... also they are numbered differently. The frames diddent change between 65 and 66.. they changed in 67 for the th400.. there are nly three small differences i can see on the 442 frames the back cross support by the springs, ftont control arm gussets and the frame numbers (not vin numberS) on the back by the hangers.. a

Koda

Why are you still arguing? Why are you arguing in the first place? You came here for an answer and one of the site's most knowledgeable dudes gave you great info. Take it and be happy.

1. Your car can have L-69 Tri Carb and AC; it's ok. L-69 is not W-30 (although it is a prerequisite) and only W-30s in that year were not allowed to have AC.

2. The convertible frame, which was the HD frame option in 66, was an option for ANY non-covertible A body Olds. It is unrelated to 442.

3. The way to tell if your car is actually a 442 is to see what the cowl tag says and put up a picture.

I've not been on this site as long as some, but, the trend is, we usually get someone about every two months that makes an account, and tries to get us to help him prove his car is a 442 when it is missing parts or has wrong parts. Usually, when someone agrees with the advice given, and checks the stuff, it turns out to be a 442. Occasionally, some honest man realizes, after being helped here, that he just has a Cutlass and thanks us for his help. More often, people get stubborn, refuse the advice, and start peddling BS when the answer they get isn't the one they want. Which one are you going to be?

Jameskilcer

Clarification is not arguing.. and im not illiciting authentication... this thread went from a question about availability of ac on a manual to a discussion on frames... if any feathers were ruffled i apoligise... as it was not my intent... i get a lot of good feedback from the guys on this site but oviously somone in this thread feels im being obtuse..

Jameskilcer

Thanks joe_padavano the info you provided has lead me to believe that ive been infact calling the frame by the wrong name.. the Hd frame is NOT what ive been describing.. the hd frames that you are referring to is what ive been calling convertable frames... so i think thats where the discord came from.. as i found on the site linked above amd thru threads on here.. the (3864503 s )frames are the 442 frames ive been discribing.

Diego

I don't think he's in this category.

He just needs to have untangled the info he's been given by others or online.

Koda

Seems like it. I hope for the best for him.

Run to Rund

1966 was the first year for the cross flow radiator, so the front frame horns were spread farther than in 1965. The 1966 standard frame, called "heavy duty" or "guard beam" in advertisements, was part number 390502. The F35 or convertible frame was 390504.

Jameskilcer

Ok.... well now that ive made everyone mad.... i was frusterated by all the information that diddemt add up... so i went outside to check thru the sea of parts that i got when i bought the car... the "spare frame" that came with it is a 65 442 frame and ive stupidly been pulling all the numbers off of it because it matched everything i was getting off annother site.. i got off my a$$ and looked to see which one matches the vin on my body tub (which is on the other side the afore mentiond "sea" of parts... sorry about all the mixup.. i did notice the 66 frame dosent have a frame part code indexed into it... but it does have a number ( 6 28 66 2) any ideas.. now that this has officially morphed into a frame thread.. haha

hurst68olds

6 28 66 2

best guess
Tuesday 6/28/66 shift or line 2

& post the car's vin and tag info WAG the assembly date will fall in line with the frame date if it's original to the car ...... start at the easy stuff & the rest will make sense