Cast Iron Damage - ClassicOldsmobile.com


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Old February 8th, 2018, 12:55 PM   #1  
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Cast Iron Damage

I'm turning to the CO community for advice on a puzzling problem. I sold a LH exhaust manifold to CO member Molasson73 who happens to live in France. It was rather expensive to ship the part overseas, but I'm sure Olds parts are pretty scare in Europe. After receiving the manifold, he PM'd me claiming the part was bad, so I asked for pictures of the damaged area to better understand what he was talking about. The damage was so severe, I questioned whether it was the same manifold I sent to him, but the casting numbers confirm it is indeed the same part.

Here is a picture of the part when I shipped it to him. I don't see any evidence of the damage.


This picture was taken by Molasson73 and shows the damaged manifold.


Can anyone explain what is going on here? His picture shows chunks of iron missing from the part, but in my pre-ship picture the iron is clearly intact. Is it possible that the cracks in the iron were hiding under the surface rust? Iwant to make this right with Molasson73, but the pre-ship pictures show it was a good part when I shipped it.

Last edited by cdrod; February 8th, 2018 at 12:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old February 8th, 2018, 01:27 PM   #2  
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The second picture sure looks like a different manifold. There are telltale signs like different places where the metal is shiny from either being bolted in place or where the exhaust pipe flare was rubbing on the outlet port. This damage sure looks like it was caused by a heat stove that was bolted over the exhaust, causing trapped moisture and rust. My money says that's his old manifold, which is why he needed a new one. What year is the buyer's manifold off of? His screen name implies that he has a 1973 Olds, which would have had the heat stove on the driver's side.

Also, note the apparently different shape of the ear in the red circle in these two photos.

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Old February 8th, 2018, 01:27 PM   #3  
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looks to me like on yours after the D5 it says 237.cant see it that good.his definately says 236
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Old February 8th, 2018, 01:29 PM   #4  
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looks to me like on yours after the D5 it says 237.cant see it that good.his definately says 236
I read 236 on both of them.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 01:39 PM   #5  
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Yep, two different manifolds. Extra material on the left side of the #1 flange also. Yours is squared off along the bottom, his is round.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 01:41 PM   #6  
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Yep, two different manifolds. Extra material on the left side of the #1 flange also. Yours is squared off along the bottom, his is round.
Good eyes! I missed that completely.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 01:52 PM   #7  
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The casting numbers match. Here's some close-up pics:



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Old February 8th, 2018, 01:55 PM   #8  
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look at the casting slag on the right side port defentley not the same manifold
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Old February 8th, 2018, 02:08 PM   #9  
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With the close ups it's even more obvious. The 4 is different font, and his letters/numbers are more prominent. Like they are fatter. Also his 5 has a gouge that yours doesn't.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 02:15 PM   #10  
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Guy has quite the nerve. I'm with Joe, that's his old unit. If he frequents the site, he'll
see this thread. He needs to.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 02:28 PM   #11  
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Originally Posted by tru-blue 442 View Post
Guy has quite the nerve. I'm with Joe, that's his old unit. If he frequents the site, he'll
see this thread. He needs to.
Adam:
I bought this manifold from you back in 2012 along with a pair of bucket seat cores. My plans back then were to do a factory restoration, then I started reading CutlassEFI's posts about stroking a small block and now I'm building a stroked sbo with headers and EFI. It's more of a mild pro-touring build now.
When I look at the pictures, I just can't believe that these are the same part even though the casting numbers match up.

Last edited by cdrod; February 8th, 2018 at 02:30 PM.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 02:47 PM   #12  
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Right. I would have chucked a manifold if it was in that kind of shape!
This fella is trying to get one over on you. Don't lose any sleep over it.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 03:44 PM   #13  
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Casting number discrepancies

You guys are right! Thank you for providing a second opinion on this. When I really blow-up the photos to show the casting numbers you can tell they are not the same. The "4" is different and the "1"s are longer, on the shipped manifold; the "5" is scratched and the julian numbers are shorter on the damaged manifold. But how crazy is it that they would have the same casting number and julian date. What are the odds of that happening?

Molasson's manifold.


My manifold.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 10:19 PM   #14  
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You guys are right! Thank you for providing a second opinion on this. When I really blow-up the photos to show the casting numbers you can tell they are not the same. The "4" is different and the "1"s are longer, on the shipped manifold; the "5" is scratched and the julian numbers are shorter on the damaged manifold. But how crazy is it that they would have the same casting number and julian date. What are the odds of that happening?

Molasson's manifold.


My manifold.
According to GM parts wiki , this part was used on 64 thru 75 (at least) . On small block , and later big block engines . That's 12 years .
So , 365 divided by 12 equals 30.4 . or about 30 to 1.

I would advise you to tell this turd to go to he!! . And advise anyone not to deal with him .
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Old February 9th, 2018, 04:54 AM   #15  
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According to GM parts wiki , this part was used on 64 thru 75 (at least) .
Unfortunately, this illustrates the risk of relying only on the parts book. The purpose of the parts book was not to document the parts used in building the car (that's the job of the PIM or Assembly Manual). The parts book lists the replacement parts that are available in the parts network at the time the book was printed. As parts ran out and got dropped from the parts network, Olds would issue a supercession list to document where a newer part number would be able to replace an original. This wasn't always possible, but in this case it was.

The 1964 330 LH manifold casting number was 380001, which was also a "1" casting ID. Later SBOs used 380145, which got a "2", and so forth. Casting 411961 was first used in the mid-1970s, but superseded the earlier LH manifolds. It was only used on SBOs, however.

The other indicator is the actual casting number. Olds casting numbers in in the 1960s and early 70s were roughly chronological. Early 60s castings are 380xxx. As time went on, numbers increased. Mid-60s castings are 384xxx. Late 60s are 398xxx and 402xxx. Early 70s are 404xxx. This 411xxx shows it's originally from the mid-70s.

Quote:
That's 12 years .
So , 365 divided by 12 equals 30.4 . or about 30 to 1.
Sorry, but not quite. You'd have to run this calculation with production numbers, not number of days, to get a valid set of odds.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 06:11 AM   #16  
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Was that actually a Julian date or just a lot number?


This guy is a turd, you need to wash your hands of him, not communicate any further, and no one deal with him on here.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 06:22 AM   #17  
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i blew a manifold on a chevy like that, head gasket went and water on the hot manifold from the inside cracked it
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Old February 9th, 2018, 06:32 AM   #18  
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I think that bad manifold could be repaired. This guys is a jabroni. Surely they can weld cast iron in France.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 07:54 AM   #19  
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Top manifold center bolt hole is clearly counter-bored for the bolt head and the damaged manifold has no counter-bore. Thats a dead giveaway.

Looks to me as if someone tried to weld a patch over a crack on the damaged manifold.

Tell your buyer to kick rocks. I recommend a ban on his account.

Last edited by 61Bat; February 9th, 2018 at 07:58 AM.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #20  
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Old February 9th, 2018, 08:19 AM   #21  
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I recommend a ban on his account.
I already mentioned that in the Moderator discussion forum. We'll see what happens.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 09:15 AM   #22  
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This is really easy. Molasson73 said in a prior post that the old manifold had problems, and apparently rust caused him to break at least one of the bolts to the head. If he believes there is a problem with the one he bought, simply post a photo of both old and replacement manifolds side by side in the same photo and prove that this damaged one is the new one.

Anyone want to bet that the old one has already been "thrown away"?
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Old February 9th, 2018, 10:38 AM   #23  
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Yeah I saw those pictures earlier. Which is why I'm wondering about the claim.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 08:48 AM   #24  
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Yeah I saw those pictures earlier. Which is why I'm wondering about the claim.
What's to wonder about? It's pretty cut and dry from my vantage..
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Old February 11th, 2018, 10:35 AM   #25  
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Getting parts for Oldsmobiles is hard enough in Europe, even more at its North-Westernmost part.
At US you can scam people, and just walk to next swap-meet getting that part you need. Here, we need to find somebody willing to even ship overseas, and then actually to make the deal.

Now, finding that one guy willing to ship and trust you is hard enough even without guys mudding the already dark waters for us.... Gotta love it..
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Old February 11th, 2018, 10:40 AM   #26  
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Reputation Damage

That's a wrap. Picture 4 looks like the one he says you sent him. Sure looks bad for him.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 12:33 PM   #27  
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Gary:
Agreed. I sent a PM to Molasson73 on Thursday stating that these pictures are not of the same part. I haven't heard a peep from him, which is for the best. I didn't sling any mud at him, just stated the obvious and challenged him to prove me wrong. Ya'll need to steer clear of this guy in future dealings.
Thanks again to everyone who scrutinized the pics and shared thier observations. I was nearly convinced that somehow the part I shipped him had unseen, hidden damage and that I needed to refund his money to make it right. I'm really glad I took good pictures before shipping the part.
Rodney
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Old February 11th, 2018, 12:48 PM   #28  
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I always keep pictures when shipping. It helps if you have to file claims on damage by shippers or situations like yours. Without them it's impossible to prove your legit.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 11:20 AM   #29  
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So i m here ! this is my explanation.
take a look of the picture in this post .
i agreee that on the picture of Cdrod you can't really see if it's damaged or not . I received damaged but not broken, i make the hole coz i was trying to fix it first. we try even to put a patch on it but nothing stick oin the iron. that why i complained after.
So now if it will be not the exhaust that cdrod send just take a look on my picture. i bought a new one to jhoppeolds on the forum, and i promise i m not collecting Exhaust Manifold, so why i will bought a other one if the one that i receive will be not broken ???
ow i ve got 3 exhaust... which one on the car was broken, the second send by Cdrod and the fird send by jhoppeolds.
And yes, i will not make any other deal with Cdrod. And if you want to bann me from here.. just do it... If that's how people react on this website.
Comunity for helping, and people who like olds...i don't want to be part of this.
So Thanks a lot to jhoppeolds that he send me a really good Exhaust manifod....
Have a good day.




Antoine
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Old February 12th, 2018, 11:22 AM   #30  
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Originally Posted by Inline View Post
Getting parts for Oldsmobiles is hard enough in Europe, even more at its North-Westernmost part.
At US you can scam people, and just walk to next swap-meet getting that part you need. Here, we need to find somebody willing to even ship overseas, and then actually to make the deal.

Now, finding that one guy willing to ship and trust you is hard enough even without guys mudding the already dark waters for us.... Gotta love it..
Thanks
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Old February 13th, 2018, 05:17 AM   #31  
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with all sides now in....

it looks to me like Cdrod's exhaust manifold #236 was patched by Molasson73 after he received it. Molasson73 should have taken a picture of the damage before the patch, but he did not. However, the Molasson73 manifold #236, with the patch, is the one Cdrod sent, as it has the identical chip in the exhaust flange shown in Cdrod's before shipment picture. not likely that could be duplicated.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 05:45 AM   #32  
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So Thanks a lot to jhoppeolds that he send me a really good Exhaust manifod....
It would be good to hear from jhoppeolds. His account was active today.

How did the exhaust manifold pictured by Molasson73 break into 2 pieces? Was the car hit by a semi?

I also hope nobody paid someone to patch the exhaust manifold originally posted by cdrod. That is poor welding.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 05:50 AM   #33  
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Thanks
Just to be clear; i wasnt taking anyones side on the debate, just mentioned universally how such a situation like this muddies the waters, no matter whos right or wrong. Bad advertisment is bad for our hobby.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 06:06 AM   #34  
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How did the exhaust manifold pictured by Molasson73 break into 2 pieces? Was the car hit by a semi?
The manifold on a friends 1959 Cadillac broke just like the one in the picture, He never abused the car, it wasn't in a collision, it just broke.

But in his case I picked one up while I was in the USA, and could see if it was any good,.
I know the trouble people outside North America have sourcing parts like these.

We have heard both sides of the story now, a shame it couldn't be settled without acrimony. It seems to have ended badly for both sides.

Roger.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 11:24 AM   #35  
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I had a successful transaction with Mollason73 and that's all I can add to this dispute.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 03:49 PM   #36  
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There is another player in this situation.

It was shipped a looong way and handled by multiple employees. Could it have been damaged in transit? I would suggest not trying to fix anything delivered to any buyer. Contact the seller immediately to figure out what happened. If the box is damaged or bent in any way , note it on the paperwork the delivery company has you sign. Take pictures before opening that box and keep the box and packaging materials to help with your claim against the shipping company. Hope this helps buyers/ sellers on this site and over seas enjoy our hobby.

Last edited by Gary M; February 13th, 2018 at 04:00 PM.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 07:51 PM   #37  
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Guys, I didn't start this thread to bash Molasson73, I was simply looking for info or past experience that could explain the discrepancy between the 2 photos of what was supposed to be the same part.

I would like to state for the record that I did not knowingly sell Molasson73 a bad part. I took several photos from multiple angles to show the overall condition of the part and he based his decision to purchase based on these photos. Had he asked for more pics, I would have happily obliged as I have been in his shoes buying parts long-distance. I think it's important to remember these parts are 40+ years old, and buying a 40 year old part has some inherent risk. It was not a new part and I made no written guarantee of it's condition. I also want to point out that I offered to bead-blast the manifold for a little extra $$ but Molasson73 declined. Perhaps this would have revealed the degradation before it was shipped to another continent. If Molasson73 felt he had a grievance with me due to the condition of the part, he should not have altered it without first contacting me and providing evidence of his claim. I have decided to provide a partial refund to Molasson73 in the interest of goodwill & good karma.
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Old February 17th, 2018, 05:41 AM   #38  
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I think that's more than fair and very good on your behalf cdRod.

Much good karma to you
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Old February 17th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #39  
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I'm glad there was a positive outcome for this thread. Understandably it was not a good situation for either party.
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