OLDSter Ralph

I am wondering if anyone has tried putting headers on a '64 Starfire with a transplanted 455 ? I am guessing no one. Do you guys who have had a 63-64 Olds think headers would fit in the frame ?
I am sure commercially made headers are not available, but could a set of 65-69 4-4-2 headers be "tweaked" to fit ?

joe_padavano

The 1963-64 cars have the same steering box problem as do the 1965-70 full size cars. These are "rear-steer", meaning that the linkage is behind the axle. That puts the steering box exactly in the way of any headers. Cutlass headers aren't even close.

Short of custom building your own headers (and even that will be a significant packaging challenge), your only option is to use the repro "Starfire" LH exhaust manifold that clears the steering box.

Of course, your other problem is, what are you doing for mounts to put the 455 in the 64 chassis? The repro manifold is designed to clear the stock 1965-70 full size motor mounts. Custom brackets and non-stock mount locations may cause other fitment problems.

The only other Olds that used rear steer is the 1973-74 Omega. Hooker DOES (or at least DID) sell headers for these cars, but for the SBO. I have no idea if they are even close to fitting on a full size. Given the limited clearance around manifold, steering box, starter, crossmember, and column on my 67 Delta, I'm inclined to say they will not.

OLDSter Ralph

Well, its wintertime up here in Minnesota and I don't have a spare garage stall, so it was just a thought. I was a little disappointed when I found out the 394 and tranny were gone and the newer "low compression" engine and turbo400 were installed. The engine is being "warmed up" to get a comparable horsepower to the 345 horsepower Starfire engine.
Thanks Joe, you cleared up a question.
Ralph

joe_padavano

Unless the manifolds you have are for a 1965-70 full size with factory dual exhausts, you aren't going to make them work. ONLY the correct LH manifold will clear the steering.

OLDSter Ralph

I have the exhaust manifolds from the engine/car combo that was being used in the garage. The car was driven by the previous owners, so it was working. Letme check later today when I can get out in the garage.

Gerald Nickels

Pics of my 455 center exhaust.

joe_padavano

That unfortunately only works with a single exhaust crossover.

OLDSter Ralph

Well, its up to +3 degrees and I have lunch. I will get dressed and head out to the unheated garage and dig out the exhaust manifolds that were used on the '64 Starfire when it last ran. I should have pics to post later this afternoon.
I wish I had taken pics before the engine and trans were pulled out for repair.

OLDSter Ralph

407103 LH modified


407103


398708 crossover plugged and welded


casting number 398708

I took pics of the exhaust manifolds. The right side is casting number 398708. The left is casting number 407103. The left side has been cut and reWELDed. I'll try to attach pics.

joe_padavano

398708 is the RH manifold for a 1965-70 full size with BBO. There should be a "T" on the manifold. Best you're going to get for your application. The factory bolted a cap on the crossover port for dual exhaust applications. This cap is larger than the one for 350 motors and is not reproduced, so a fabricated cap is your only choice.

407103 is a LH 1971-75 Toronado manifold. Should have a "J" on it. Normally the outlet points up and over the Toro transaxle, which is why it was modified. In unmodified form it looks like the lower manifold in this photo. The repro "Starfire" manifold will look and flow better. Your call.

OLDSter Ralph

joe_padavano

The first character is always "3" for Oldsmobile Division
The second character is the year. "9" is 1969.
The third character is the assembly plant. For the 1969 model year, "C" would be Southgate, CA. "G" would be Framingham, MA. "6" was not used that year. Southgate built full size cars in 1969, Framingham built A-bodies.
The remaining six characters are the sequential build number of the car it came from.

The "J" heads are not original to that block, so it's been apart previously. The block is definitely from the 1969 model year, the heads from 1973-76.

OLDSter Ralph

Olds64

Ralph, those are interesting parts you have on your engine. BTW, what color is the engine?

I ask because my father; Oldsguy, and I did the exact same thing to the exhaust manifolds on his 69 Delta 88 years ago. As I recall, we painted it a dark green with brush on POR-15. My father sold the car to someone in KS or NE probabaly... 15+ years ago.

Apparently, either the engine from his 69 Delta 88 made it into your Starfire, someone read my previous comments on ClassicOlds about modifying a Toronado manifold for rear steer cars, or someone had a moment of genius like Oldsguy and I did and knew they could do this modification.

OLDSter Ralph

The engine was Olds 455 Blue. The previous owner is not mechanically inclined to a great degree. He buys a car that "looks like" what he wants to drive. Original correctness is not important.........clones, tribute cars and any other term fits here.
He parked the '64 Starfire because he wanted/bought something different about 12 years ago. At that time he bought a '65 Starfire convertible with a 4 speed.


Here is "the story of the car" as told to me by the previous owner..........


1. I was working on a job and several guys started talking about cars on lunch break. Of course the talk was mostly about Chebies, old cars, Ram trucks with diesels and assorted others. Blah, blah, blah.


2. "Tony" mentions he has a '64 Olds Starfire he would like to sell or part out. He had my attention instantly. He claimed to have a running car with tinted windows and was thinking about parting it out.


3. This was JANUARY 2016 (winter up here) and we kept in touch over the next few months. About May of 2016 I got serious and asked for pics of the car.
It looked ok enough to buy. I could see that it had the wrong engine had sat outside uncovered for years and the cheap repaint job was peeling like old wallpaper, . It did have all the Starfire interior trim, bucket seats, console, floor shift, tachometer and exterior markings. We agreed on a price and when I could arrange a flat bed.


This is where the story gets good. Supposedly Tony bought it from someone near Milwaukee...... who bought bought it from someone in Arizona....... who bought it from ???? It was in a "museum" someplace but that is a sketchy detail. Where and when the 455 and Turbo400 were installed is not known.


The engine is at the machine shop now. It has a new cam, hydraulic lifters, valve springs, valve spring retainers, Edelbrock Performer intake manifold, 455 +.030" high compression pistons, decked block, and valve job.
I am hoping to have power equivalent to the original Starfire engine. I am going to have the interior completely redone like it was new and a good paint job. I plan to just drive it and enjoy what it is. No, its not completely "correct", but I kept it from being parted out and the rest going through the crusher.

Olds64

Excellent! The best thing you can do with a classic is drive it. We look forward to getting updates.

OLDSter Ralph

I will be updating pics as more things start coming together. I can see now that I need to take more "before" pics. I have already found my memory or lack of observation doesn't cover some of the details.


I never realized there was a site such as this before about August of 2017. I have learned a lot from others.


I try to go to a couple of big car shows each summer. There is no judging of cars, just people who love cars and love to see them. The shows are at the state fairgrounds and can attract 7,000 to 12,000 cars of all makes. One show is limited to 1964 and older street rods, customs, rat rods and original. The other show covers all years, customs, street rods, rat rods, muscle cars.

Oldsguy

After thinking hard about this I remember something. I removed the 455 that was in the '69 to put it in a '48 model 88. I put a stock, unimproved 455 back in the '69 but left the exhaust (with the modified manifolds and exhaust pipes, mufflers, etc in it. Don't know where it is, the engine, or the car they were in. I sold it to an immature 17 year old from my church who was dating one of the girls there.

Oldsguy

To be honest, that modification was a poor work-around at best because headers wouldn't fit and all existing dual exhaust manifolds wouldn't work either without modification. Nothing short of a complete custom set of headers would not have fit, and even then, they probably would not have scavenged much better than the manifold I modified because there just isn't much room to work with in the '69 Delta engine bay with that rear steer set-up it had.

Oldsguy

In the pictures you posted the passenger side manifold looks like the end was either cut and re-positioned and welded to point down at a more severe angle to a enable clearance at the firewall, or another exhaust manifold was used to get the same effect, and the passenger side has been similarly modified. Either way that is the same problem I had in the '69, just not much room for a good set of headers or dual exhausts.

joe_padavano

His passenger side manifold pictured above does not appear modified in the photo (other than the plug in the crossover port). There is no need to modify the passenger side manifold - the same one was used for both single and dual exhaust on these cars.

OLDSter Ralph

Only the drivers side was modified. Headers would have been nice, but nothing would fit.

Oldsguy

thanks for the clarification Joe, I missed that.

cherokeepeople

that would be the goodguys meet.been trying to get up to that show for years just never worked out.i used to have a 64 starfire conv.loved that car.never should have sold it.