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so i got progress on the 63 cutlass hardtop (the one missing an engine and trans). i got buick350 complete for 125, just missing the air cleaner. so when i got it the man had allready taken off the intake, push rods and valve covers of the heads, distributor and the accerssories like the alternator etc...
so one day i go and start taking it more appart. Now Ive never taken one appart so i seen some videos and made me a sequential checklist. I picked up where the man left off EXEPT putting it in TDC compression stroke, in good faith i guess.
so then I pull the rocker arms and after that the heads. When I looked at the number 1 cylinder however, piston number 1 was not at top. it was a good inch 1/2 bellow the top.
Now, my plan with this block is to send it the shop to get cleaned, checked and honed if needed. So What do i do????? Do I just keep busting the engine down or do I put the heads back on to find TDC comp stroke ( but i dont got the pushrods). Any help will help me out greatly. and I know rookie mistakes hahahaha
thanks for putting up with spelling, Los Angeles school district is not know much for teaching.
The engine is set to TDC so the crank and cam are aligned correctly for proper engine operation. This is accomplished by aligning the cam gear alignment mark with the crank gear alignment mark when you are putting the timing chain and cam gear back on the engine. To get it really precise, you degree the cam using a degree wheel, a timing pointer, and a method of verifying TDC (dial indicator, piston stop, etc).
It is actually easier to find TDC with the heads off, but the piston actually has TDC twice. The crank turns twice for one turn of the cam. Get and read a basic engine manual, and certainly the makers manual for the year of your engine.
I also recommend taking pics, marking rods and all components in reference as to which cylinder they belong in, including rocker arms and head components.
I also remove all block plugs, and freeze plugs before sending to machine shop.
Are you familiar with engine rebuilding? There are a lot of things to be aware of.
What all of them said. Once the engine is apart, how will you know where TDC was, anyway?
The pistons, rods, and crank will all be separated from it, and the very concept of "TDC" will vaporize.
As noted, you find TDC when you assemble the timing set, and then you use a dial indicator and a degree wheel to degree the camshaft before assembling it further.
And now the more important question:
Why are you asking questions about disassembling and rebuilding a BUICK engine on an OLDS discussion board?
Though I'm sure some guys here have lots of Buick-specific knowledge, when you put that engine together (and even when you are figuring out how to get it machined), you really need to be asking questions on a Buick, board, like V8Buick.com.
Its an engine, they all work basically the same although some of the components are in different places. Putting an Olds engine in is actually a lot easier and you should have been able to find a core 350 for close to the same price. If messing with the Buick id the route you want to take by all means its your car. You will have to treat it like a Skylark.
Its an engine, they all work basically the same although some of the components are in different places. Putting an Olds engine in is actually a lot easier and you should have been able to find a core 350 for close to the same price. If messing with the Buick id the route you want to take by all means its your car. You will have to treat it like a Skylark.
They didn't put 330s in '63 Cutlii - only Buick-based aluminum block 215s, so finding Olds motors to be scarce, but Buick motors to be more common might make sense.
Far as I know, they install exactly the same way, F-85 or Skylark, as the only difference is the heads.
Wow, thanks you all so much. For the pics and the strait foward advice. I chose the buick 350 because like said above a buick based moter was in it, I wanted to go olds but the light weight of the buick (450lbs) and front mounted distributor ultimately made my choice easier. I fell very comfortable on this website and fell like i have befiended some real cool guys, that's why I asked on here, I tried to put it in the "non olds engine" section so I'm sorry if I didn't. I was not aware of service manuals just for engines. And like i said this is the 1st engine I'm going to take apart. But it won't be my last, shoot I got a old 215v8 I need to do as well.
I will now continue taking it apart from the advice that was giving to me, and refined tdc upon reassembly.
I have some learning to do, and I'm very anxious and glad to be learning and actually getting this. I can visually see an engine In my moving internally, and two years ago I couldent. Wish I could been out of the streets more in my youth and under a hood instead. Or maybe I should say I shoulda been under a hood instead of being in the hood.
Ronnie
I built a buick 350 before i got into oldsmobiles. Was going to be a nitrous fed 79 malibu for street racing. You needto get good technical refrences. The chassis manual does wonders for teaching and telling you how to do the basic engine overhaul which 80 percent of those procedures apply to high performance engines and all of it applies to stock builds. get your self a chassis manual for say a mid 70's skylark and it should cover the overhaul for the engines available for them which the buick 350 will fall into . The biggest pain in the @ss with them is the oil pump housing (external) which is prone to warping. t/a performance makes all the good stuff for the buicks.
Thanks CopperCutlass I will get me a chassis manual for shure. The man I purchase it from gave me a new timing cover with the high power pump. Malibu's rock. I owned a Monte for 15years and let her go just to purchase my cutlass's. My engine is from 1969 btw. It's was so cool when I bought it, I guess I came off good to the old man that he sold me his engine stand for 20$ and invite me to get into the local Oldsmobile club. He was a big olds guy, I didn't want look like I was snooping in his big back yard but he had a 442 from 67 and many other cars. He told me he was putting a olds 400 in a corvette. He game some literature too, I'm kinda of a hermit but I'm going to go out to some of there get togethers.
Your wrong Eric an olds moter doesn't weigh the same or even less. Olds 350 is 560lbs and the buick engine is 450lbs.
Both the Olds and the Buick 215 weighed between 320 and 350 pounds.
Perhaps we need to begin to clarify exactly what car you have, what engine it came with, what engine you removed, what engine you are disassembling, and what engine you intend to replace it with.
The only reason I remove all plugs is to make sure it is done before hot tanking, and I also make sure it is clean inside when I get it back by brushing and blowing out passages myself. Have also heard of shops losing plugs, not re-installing them correctly, not installing all of them, or not removing them.
Okay, so, just to be clear, as people following these threads tend to lose track of the original information sometimes:
You have a 1963 Olds Cutlass Holiday, which originally came with an Olds aluminum 215, weighing about 325 pounds, and a Roto-Hydramatic-5, but which has no engine or transmission now, and you bought a 1969 Buick 350, weighing 450 pounds, to install in it, which you are disassembling prior to a rebuild.
The first question I have is whether the Buick engine will bolt into the '63 F-85 without modification.
I am going to guess Yes, because the original 215 was a Buick-pattern motor, and I'm going to guess that that is why you were sold a Buick engine, as a SBO is not a bolt-in for that car, to the best of my knowledge, but I am NOT 100% sure.
The second question I have is what transmission you are planning to use, as you don't have one.
Again, the Roto-Hydramatics bolt up differently than the newer B-O-P engine pattern on the SBB, and are narrower than the TH350 which does bolt up, so you would need to modify the floor pan, or go with a manual transmission (for which you would need clutch pedal, linkage, etc.).
The third question I have is whether you have considered cooling - the original 215 radiator is unlikely to adequately cool a 350, and, again, not being intimately familiar with the pre-'64 cars, I am not sure whether they have rom for a later radiator.
You said at the beginning that you were a novice. Have you started a project that will be harder to complete than you think it will?
- Eric
Last edited by MDchanic; April 9th, 2017 at 10:40 AM.
Reason: Left out the @$#^$ word "NOT"
Okay, so, just to be clear, as people following these threads tend to lose track of the original information sometimes:
You have a 1963 Olds Cutlass Holiday, which originally came with an Olds aluminum 215, weighing about 325 pounds, and a Roto-Hydramatic-5, but which has no engine or transmission now, and you bought a 1969 Buick 350, weighing 450 pounds, to install in it, which you are disassembling prior to a rebuild.
The first question I have is whether the Buick engine will bolt into the '63 F-85 without modification.
I am going to guess Yes, because the original 215 was a Buick-pattern motor, and I'm going to guess that that is why you were sold a Buick engine, as a SBO is not a bolt-in for that car, to the best of my knowledge, but I am 100% sure.
The second question I have is what transmission you are planning to use, as you don't have one.
Again, the Roto-Hydramatics bolt up differently than the newer B-O-P engine pattern on the SBB, and are narrower than the TH350 which does bolt up, so you would need to modify the floor pan, or go with a manual transmission (for which you would need clutch pedal, linkage, etc.).
The third question I have is whether you have considered cooling - the original 215 radiator is unlikely to adequately cool a 350, and, again, not being intimately familiar with the pre-'64 cars, I am not sure whether they have rom for a later radiator.
You said at the beginning that you were a novice. Have you started a project that will be harder to complete than you think it will?
- Eric
Good Morning.
First you are correct in your summary of what the situation is. To answer your questions, modification will be needed to fit the sbb 350 in. Even though I will try to see if it will drop in I highly doubt it because I have not got a definite answer from someone else who has done it. The 231 buick v6 would fit in I heard and the 350 is the same animal with 2 extra cylinders. My plan if it won't drop In is to get an independent front suspension, my best candidate is the mustang ll with some welding.
2. I have not picked one yet but I would like overdrive, I used to have a th350 and I want the overdrive for high speeds (I guess thats all people drive in CA) so my candidate I been looking at is the 700r4. I am not shy of manual transmission and I kind of prefer it so if you could tell me of a good one please do. I've researched the t10 and the wide range Muncie but I still don't know. Transmission tunnel is a must.
3. Electric can. And I have not considered cooling that much but I thought to my self that I would be needing a new radiator from summit or etc.
As far a getting into something to deep with a small shovel lol. No, because i know this is going to be hard, I've let it sit in already. Even prior to purchase I've know the complexity and uniqueness this car has being it is a one year car. But now months later I see it is tougher. With that said, I had to bust my cherry anyway, I feel this car will take me to another level of understanding and knowledge. It's not rocket science and I'm in no rush, so walking away when I don't understand or when its frustrating will be done often. This car was headed towards the crusher.
The engine bay The steering box on the driver side and the steerring linkage has stoped many swaps in the past to my knowedge. Thats why i say i dont bet on it just droping in, but i will try 1st. Small trans tunnel
Oh, one other thing - you know that you'll have a much easier time fitting a Rover V8, which is the same as the Buick/Olds 215, into that car than the SBB, right?
You might save money and irritation in the long run by buying a running Range Rover engine (and its associated wiring and computer) at a junkyard, rather than having the Buick engine rebuilt and doing a bunch of customizing.
Oh, one other thing - you know that you'll have a much easier time fitting a Rover V8, which is the same as the Buick/Olds 215, into that car than the SBB, right?
You might save money and irritation in the long run by buying a running Range Rover engine (and its associated wiring and computer) at a junkyard, rather than having the Buick engine rebuilt and doing a bunch of customizing.
- Eric
yeah, I've thought of this but the unreliability of the rover scares me, they are plauged with weak cylinder liners and they seem to go when at no warning. I first was going to go the rover route, but finding a good 4.6 rover near me was such an eye opener because all doner cars failed the same way, the engine. Many overheated due to cracks in the liner wall. Plus I take pride in going American, even thought nowadays China and Mexico are leading in replacement parts.. also the parts for the rover are some what pricy.
April 8th, 2017, 01:11 PM
