mikeamondo

So... I've created this new thread to continue the discussion / help for my 1967 Olds 98 Town Sedan. The original discussion is here: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...98-luxury.html


In short... I've bought the car and driven it a hundred miles home. Exhaust and other noises made me think it was not shifting right...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeamondo
When I got up to 55 or so there was considerable noise... HOWEVER... there is a substantial exhaust leak, and there is definitely a second noise... like a roaring...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeamondo
Oh... and if the fan clutch not locked up, I assume the fan should turn freely, engine off? And would that affect shifting?

Quote:


With the engine off and cold, you should be able to give the fan a swat and have it turn about one revolution before stopping.
If it's tight, then it could be turning faster than designed at highway speeds, which produces a roaring sound, sort of like a P-38 taking off.


So.... this morning with the engine cold, I took a look at the fan... it is certainly tight. A good swat moves it only about 1 fan blade... < 1/4 turn. Of course, it's hard to get a good solid swat with the shroud and other stuff in the way... but still... seems tight. And a P-38 taking off is kind of right for what I heard. P-38 by the way... far and away my favorite of the WW2 fighters..... wicked cool plane. Is the fan a replace or fix job? And where would I get one?


Thanks!

oldcutlass

I would not be in a hurry to change the clutch, if its not leaking and there is no lateral play it's probably a HD one and still serviceable. I start with safety items, brakes, wheel bearings, axle bearings, ujoints, front and rear suspension bushings, ball joints, etc first. Then Fuel system, tuneup/ engine/ cooling and check trans/ rear end for leaks and operation and body mount bushings. Electrical and systems, then appearance items. Not necessarily in that order if something really pressing arises.

mikeamondo

Yeah... but I'm trying to track down the roar, which may have led me to think the engine was running at a higher rpm than it was.... the noise was consistent, regardless of rpm... ie, it continued, unaffected, when I drifted down a hill at speed. I really need to quiet everything down and hook up a tach to make sure the transmission issue was my... shall we say 'lack of experience'.... and not the actual transmission...

mikeamondo

So... good news.... took the car out today, understanding that it's a 3 speed tranny and she's louder than she should be.... took it up to 70 easy peasy and cruised down the road, just like she should.


There is still a noise at speed, but I can't tell if it's exhaust leak or some other noise. I have an appointment Wednesday for an exhaust job and state inspection... so that should clear up some things!


Which brings me to my next questions.... I believe this 67 98 should have a single exhaust running down the passenger side to a muffler right in front of the axel, then cross over the axel and turn 90 degrees toward the drivers side, with a resonator in between the tank and the axel, then turning and exiting on the driver's side. Is this correct? That what it looks like in the shop manual and what they are planning on doing Wednesday. Right now it has only the muffler and then over the axel and straight out that side....

Thanks!
Mike

Professur

That sounds like the Walker replacement tailpipe. #46554 without the resonator. http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog...catalog-lookup

It's a cheaper option. Doesn't sound as nice, but if they had money to burn, they'd have gone stainless.

mikeamondo

Quite possible... it looks like an amateur job though... the muffler hangs at a weird angle and there are clamps all over the damn place. I'd like it to look / sound as original as possible. And I need it to hang right due to my non-paved driveway... I need all the clearance I can get. The shop I'm using is a custom exhaust kind of shop... as long as it's legal and quiet I suppose.... Anyway, do you think I'm correct in that originally it had the muffler, over the axel, resonator and out the driver's side?

Oldsmaniac

This car was available with the Starfire 425 rated at 375HP and this included dual exhaust. The correct exhaust manifold for duals is reproduced and will give more HP to your 98, I recommend. If you went this route you would need resonators as it would be louder than a 98 should be even with stock mufflers.

mikeamondo

well... while I appreciate a car that can rip your head off when you tromp on the pedal as much as the next guy... I'm not really in a position to sink that much green into this old car right now. And the 98 is more of an easy cruiser than a muscle car... I guess I'm just getting old, but power she has right now is just fine for me... :>) What I really what her to be is quiet. Reserved, smooth, quiet and capable when needed. I just want to make sure what I ask for at the shop is what was intended originally... I think he's going to build it however I ask him to...

Oldsmaniac

Well if the addition of an extra pipe and muffler would turn a car into a head ripper that would be something. I fully get where you are coming from, it was just a suggestion and yes the 98 will have enough kick either way. I love quiet myself as well. I am getting old too!

mikeamondo

As soon as I get the exhaust / inspection done, I want to get some new tires.... MDMechanic... you gave me this info...



.... in my other thread. I can't find the 8.85X14 listed in any conversion table. Where did you find this? And.... I can't find 245/70/R14s or 255/60/R14s listed for sale online anywhere. I certainly want the white walls... suggestions on where I might find these sizes?

oldcutlass

Here some info for tire sizes:
http://www.turbinecar.com/tires.htm

1969w3155

Wasn't 1966 the last year for this engine option?

Oldsmaniac

The Sfire was gone in 67 but the Delta custom coupe was pretty much the 67 Sfire. The Sfire option engine was still an option but not standard equipment in any model. It was used in the Police Apprehender B body as well...

mikeamondo

Thanks for posting that one... all the other charts I found thru google stopped short of the 885X14 size... now to actually find them for sale somewhere...

twintracks

Coker Tire Co. should have them.

mikeamondo

Yeah... just found 'em on Coker.... $227 a pop. I can't but nearly a grand in the tires and still do the other stuff it needs.... Have to keep looking... thanks!

mikeamondo

Huh... apparently adding a white stripe to a tire adds $200 to it's price!

oldcutlass

Do you have to have bias plys? Why not go with a radial similar in diameter?

mikeamondo

Maybe I need a lesson in tires here... after all, I needed one in transmissions...


I assumed I was looking for radials... looking for 245/70/R14's or 255/60/R14s.. those be radials, right? I'd just like to find something with a one inch whitewall... without spending a grand.

oldcutlass

Never mind, it's the white wall that's causing all the price problems, those are radials. If your on a budget then I would forego the whitewalls.

mikeamondo

Yeah... probably going to have to give up on the white walls or keep the tires that are on it... tread is fine, just not sure how old they are. So what I'm finding is that when I plug in 245, a lot of places don't even show 14 inch... Obviously, the 215s will go on the car, as that's what on it. So if I can't get up to the 245, what other sizes will A) get me closer to the 245/70/14 it calls for, and B) can be found for sale at a reasonable price? I found 235/60/R14's... still pricey, but better. How would I know if they'll fit?

oldcutlass

I believe the closest you'll get is a 225-70-14. 14" tires don't have much of a selection any more.

rocketraider

That doesn't sound right for a Ninety Eight. Sounds more like a wagon setup, but I don't have my 67 shop book handy to see what's in there.

mikeamondo

I've got the shop manual.. just wanted to make sure I was reading it right. Series 38 is shown with dual exhaust, but on the next page, it shows series 38 with 4bbl carb as having the single exhaust, as I described above. My car has the 4bbl, so I'm pretty sure that was the original setup.

Oldsmaniac

I believe you are looking at the wrong series, dont have my shop manual handy either...

455Dave

This is what the optional factory dual exhaust looks like on my Ninety Eight. The standard single exhaust was the same out back (with resonator) - except minus the left side. This is all NOS stuff... hope this helps, Dave

mikeamondo

Yep... Town Sedan is 38400.. Series 84... keep confusing it with 38.. 3 is for Oldsmobile. Ugh. So the book only shows a dual exhaust on the 84 series... doesn't seem to show a pic of the single exhaust, but I'm assuming you are right that it should have had an exhaust, over the pipe and then straight out the passenger side with a resonator. That'll be easier anyway. Should quiet the old girl down quite a bit. Scheduled at the exhaust shop on Wednesday!

1969w3155

Look at the drawing provided by 455Dave, it shows "left assy. for dual exhaust", ignore the left side exhaust, and you have what is correct for your car.

mikeamondo

Yep... got it now. My book had that same exact drawing but slightly different wording. Mine shows the Series 54 (Delta and Starfire Eng) exhaust and then refers to another drawing to show the crossover pipe for "Exc Starfire Engines". Thanks for the help!

MDchanic

Hi Mike. I kinda missed this thread until now.

Regarding exhaust pipes:
The original GM part numbers for the engine pipes are:
'67-'70 98 - 394592 RH
'67-'70 98 - 392315 LH
There is a NOS RH engine pipe up for sale on eBay right now with one day to go, for $27, with $26 shipping.

Note that the 88 and 98 pipes are different because of the different wheelbases of the two series.

The original GM part numbers for the muffler to resonator pipes are:
'67-'68 98 - 394396 RH
'67-'68 98 - 394397 LH

The mufflers and resonators are completely unavailable, and are easily (but not perfectly) replaced by modern equivalents, so there's no need to give their numbers.

Since the car came with resonators originally, and the resonators included the tailpipe end, there is no GM part number for the tailpipes.

The on line Walker catalogue only goes back to 1973, but earlier Walker interchange information is definitely available somewhere.

I swear that I downloaded a bunch of pipe-bending data cards at some point, but I just can't friggin' find 'em.

If your local shop is good, let 'em do their stuff, and you should be fine.
If you have any doubts, Scott at ClassicExhaust does a good job and usually ships very quickly.

- Eric

beepac

Hi Mike -
My '68 98 has tires very similar to these in the Coker
website: Maxxis - 215/70R14 - 3/4 Inch Whitewall.
They are only $93.

mikeamondo

Hey beepac.... thanks for the tip! I've got 215/70R14's on her right now... they seem to work just fine, but the speedo is off by about 5 mph. I did the math on a set of 215/75R14's... circumference of the 70s is 81.21 in... the 75's are just under 84 in. Originals for the car (245/70's) are 86.39 inches. Might be nice in between and get the speed closer to actual... Assuming the height works. The 215/75 should be about an inch shorter than the original replacement. The spare in the car, by the way, seems to be the original.... B. F. Goodrich marked 8.85 X 14... never been touched!


An overall update on the car... got the exhaust done today and took her for a drive around town. A nice quiet 'rumble' with the new system... perfect. Still have a roar at speed. Before I change the fan clutch, I'm wondering.... if I get her up to speed, and the roar is ... well roaring... and then I shift into neutral on a downhill slope and the noise continues unchanged.... that would rule out the fan clutch as making the roar, right?


It really feels like road noise or bearing/rear end noise to me anyway. Maybe the old tires.... they were manufactured in '01. Thoughts?


Thanks.... what a blast to drive her legally with her brand new WV sticker! Everything passed with no problems.. brakes and suspension all good! Pics to come as soon as I can get a chance to wash her. Named her Eleanor, by the way.... tried calling her Ellie, but she didn't like that... not one little bit.

MDchanic

I agree - fan noise should decrease radically when the engine slows down - if you want to be really sure, kill the engine while going downhill.

Old tires that are getting ready to delaminate can DEFINITELY roar or growl, so that is a very important thing to consider. Most people would say that radials that age have exceeded their lifespan (I will reserve judgement), so that could be it.

Bearings will usually sing or hum, and bearing noise can usually be changed by going around turns and loading / unloading them.

You'll figure it out.

- Eric

mikeamondo

Yeah... I'm thinking I'll test the fan clutch that way and swap out the tires first. Doing the plugs/wires/oil/filter this weekend and working on the fuel gauge. Do you think my analysis of the 215/75's looks right... I'd hate to order a set in have them not work....

MDchanic

The 215/75s will be an improvement on what you've got, but if you can get something just a bit bigger, like 225/75s (or 235/70s), you'll probably be even happier.

Note that the original tires on that car were probably 78 series, so 75s will be slightly wider than stock, and 70s, which were what came on muscle cars starting around 1969 0r '70, will be wider still.

(I just took a quick look on TireRack - Jeez, the only tire available on their giant web site in a size that's close to correct is a white-lettered T/A in 225/70. 15" wheels are an option, and are easy to find (at the junkyard) and not expensive, and will give you far more options, but you would need to get new hubcaps with them - 205/75-15 or 225/70-15 would be the right sizes).

- Eric

oldcutlass

He'll run into problems with wheel covers going to a 15. There are not a lot of choices left for 14"s.

oldsguybry

The good old fan clutch issue , I remember it well . Mine made a god awful noise until I finally figured out that it was the fan clutch . Luckily for me I had another motor laying around to swap with . I dug this quote from one of the threads I had going on while fixing another issue ....

now I have a screaching sound coming from the front of the motor mainly when the motor is cold and not under load.

This ended up being the fan clutch , I hope this helps .

ThePackRat

Tracking down a set of 15 inch steelies + a suitable set of Olds wheelcovers shouldn't be too costly.

That's the route I'd go.

mikeamondo

Well.. decision has been made... set of 5 215/75 R14's on the way to my local shop. Will have them on her tomorrow afternoon... Hankook Optima whitewall h724s. $410 mounted, balanced with lifetime rotations. Not exactly the name brand I'd like to have on my classic Olds... but the savings will let me dump more into the minor body repairs she needs.... there will be opportunity for tire upgrades in the future. Fan clutch test to come later today....


mike

MDchanic

Yeah, the situation sux for 14" wheels, and it sux for whitewalls, and when you combine the two...

I'm glad you found a solution.

- Eric