henryk8398

Hi everyone! I'm a new Oldsmobile owner and a new member of the forum. I've been in love with the 1980-84 Nintey-Eight sedans for a long time, and I found a survivor 1983 with just over 88K miles on it. It's got the 307 and supposedly a rebuilt 200-R4. Overall very clean. I'm new to Oldsmobiles, but not to older cars, especially GM.

I have a bunch of questions and I was hoping I could get some help! I know that these are pretty generic automotive questions, but I was hoping that I could learn more about the "quirks" of these cars, which is why I'm here. I know that you've seen it all!

1. The engine has an oil leak. Looking under the car, there's droplets of oil all over the pan. Is it safe to assume that I need a new pan gasket? Can I try just tightening the pan bolts and can I do that without lifting the engine. Any other common leaks with the 307?

2. When I start the car and upon acceleration, there is a "jingling" metallic sound coming from under the car. It sounds like a loose catalytic converter shield or maybe a bad converter. Anyone run into this? Also, I hear a "popping" sound on deceleration. Exhaust leak maybe?

3. The power door locks and dome light are one the same circuit. It blows a fuse almost immediately blows. I know I could have a bad door jamb switch, door lock switch, or maybe a frayed wire causing a short. From the experience of the many owners here, are there any parts on these cars that were prone to causing shorts?

4. I would like to upgrade the front sway bar and add a rear bar. Is this possible and can those parts be "borrowed" from maybe a 9C1 caprice or something like that? Any websites with interchange info?

5. What is the wheel bolt pattern? Is it 5x5" or 5x4.75"?

Thanks so much in advance!

-Henry

Jamesbo

Welcome aboard.

I'm sure some of us can help you with your problems.

I don't know if it might not be bettter to have a seperate thread for each problem.

Wait and while before you take that route, someone may know it all.

Actually someone[s] do know it all

Lady72nRob71

Welcome to Classic Olds, Henry...

I always liked the big ol' 98s myself - they were the last of the big, real luxury Olds cars...

Visit this site for learning about the 307. You have the Y code that they talk about... http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/

1) The 307 valve covers were notorious leakers until their cork gaskets were replaced with rubber gaskets or RTV sealant. The oil would run down making the pan gasket look bad.
The intake was a known coolant leaker - see the above site for details. There is a better way to install the intake manifold gasket and seals...

2) Get the car on ramps and check for loose stuff. Hope it is not internal engine noises...

3) Nothing was prone to shorting that I remember. A factory service manual with wiring diagram would be a great investment.
Check for bad wiring mods made by previous owners and check for broke bulbs or wiring pinches. A lot can happen in this circuit.
yank the cig lighter(s) and look in the housing(s). Sometimes these get messed up inside the socket.

4) Don't know...

5) Try to measure the circle on your wheels... I though 5x5 but I am not sure.

Best of luck in your repairs! And as mentioned, individual post would be better, as they increase the chance of it being read by someone who knows the answer.

Lastly, we would like to see some pictures of the car; they are almost mandatory now...

henryk8398

Thanks, I appreciate the help. Some good places to start. I think my car has both the dreaded valve cover and intake manifold leaks. Great link, I've never seen that one before! I actually do have on the way, an original chassis and electrical manual. I just got the Body by Fisher last night. I attached the best picture I had. I really REALLY like this car. It looks great, drives like a dream, and really represents the last of the great big Olds. I think these were the last American cars that came with fender skirts from the factory.

Lady72nRob71

This isn't pinging or knocking is it? I just recall the 307's EGR valve to clog up more often than it should. When this happens, it will ping/knock under accelleration depending how bad it was clogged. 88K sounds about the right mileage for that to happen.

Are the AIR injection pipes rusty and broken? That will cause exhaust leaks under the hood and maybe the popping noise.
They connect the AIR pump to the exhaust manifolds on both sides and often broke around 50K miles
This was another 307 issue; the service parts are stainless I think...

The picture is dark, but your car looks like a real cream puff (and the color, too!)
I bet it DOES ride nicely!

J-(Chicago)

Sharp car.
Those oil pan gaskets always leaked for me, and I've had 5 of these things. Valve covers too. You have to unbolt a lot of stuff to change the pan gasket, and at that point, you might as well put a better motor in

You're going to have a big mess to clean up down there. If you want to try and cheap out on the oil pan gasket you can get 2 cans of "The right stuff" gasket maker and give it a shot.
Clean every last drop of sludge from around the pan lip, and make sure there's no sand or debris. (even under the engine cradle where you can't see the pan)

Loosen the pan bolts up a little to create a little 1/16'' gap all around, and spray the degreaser in the gap as well. Caulk it up everywhere you are able with the can, use your finger for the rest. tighten the bolts back up without bending the pan and that should buy you a year or 2 before it leaks again if you do it right. If you do it wrong, it will be WORSE and you're back to square 1.

If you want to do it right, there is a LOT involved. I suppose it depends on your budget and free time. If you've never experienced the shitstorm of connections on a 307, count on your car being out of service for at least 2 days probably a week if you screw anything up and have to trace problems or find out of date emissions parts.

Olds64

That is a beautiful car. Welcome to the site. 98s are the best.

no_grain_no_gain

Greetings! I'm new to the forum as well. Just bought a '72 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon, but as I mentioned in that post, I was looking for an '80-'84 98 until this wagon came along. I love these cars. They have a great style to them. There is one around town that has been turning my head since I was a little kid. Congrats!

I too love the fender skirts on these Olds. They're massive, and look great. The '85-'86 Parisiennes however did also have fenderskirts from the factory, so the Olds isn't quite the last one to feature them. Believe it or not, fenderskirts were still a feature on the 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood, rear-wheel-drive. And I think there were some hideous looking skirts on the late '80s-early '90s Front wheel drive Fleetwoods too... uhg.

I can tell you that the bolt pattern on your is (or should be), the big "five on five" GM pattern. The "C" body Electra/Park Avenues, and the Ninety Eights have the big bolt pattern like the GM trucks and Cadillac "D" bodies. The Caprice/Delta 88/Le Sabre and Parisienne "B" bodys have the smaller style. Later in '91, when the Caprice and Roadmaster/Fleetwood got all swoopy, they also got the bigger bolt pattern.

The REAR sway bar is an easy addition. I added one to my '85 Parisienne and to my '80 Coupe deVille. The wheelbase is the only thing that changes between the B/C/D bodies, so a B-body Caprice sway bar would bolt up to your car.

On my '85 Pontiac, I installed a big thick bar off of a Caprice police car. On my '80 Coupe I installed a bar that is slightly thinner (from a '79 deVille), as Cadillacs came with a thinner style to maintain a more supple ride.

So, as far as I can tell, without looking into the aftermarket, there are 2 styles of sway bar that can be found in most junkyards: thinish and thick. Look for a bar from a Caprice to make things easier, as they seem to all have the thicker sort. Many RWD Cads of this era DO have sway bars, but are less stiff.

They're easy to install, but do require purchasing two U-shaped mounting brackets, which slide inside the bottom of the C channel shaped trailing arms. GM STILL SELLS THESE! Holes are already present on your car, and bolts come with the brackets. I may be able to get you the part number on these. You should be able to call GM and tell them what you want. They don't have a listing for the C or D bodies (so I found out when I went in search for my '80 Cad.), but just ask them for B body ones. Tell them you have a Caprice or whatever. It's the same part. They're around $30 or $40, if I recall correctly.

Once they are bolted in place, position the sway bar underneath, and use some more bolts to bolt up unto these brackets (the bottom holes are threaded). The brackets are painted, but I'd make sure to prep and paint the sway bar before putting it on, especially since it's quite visable when someone looks down underneath the car.

It adds a whole heavy duty/badass element to the car, because you can see these big sway bars underneath these old barges when following in traffic or just glancing at the rear of one in a parking lot.

Don't know much about front sway bars as I've always left the factory ones on.

If I were you, I'd add the thicker bar. The only reason I bought a thin one was to stay correct for my Cadillac. The thick bar helped the cornering of the Parisienne so much, that I don't know how I got along without one before. It's beautiful. The car stays much more flat and sure in the corners. You will really notice it. Not to say the thinner one on my Cadillac didn't help, but it's a heavier car though, much like your Olds is, and would probably benefit more from the heavier bar.

My brother has an '81 Parisienne (Bonneville for you U.S. folks), Brougham Sport Coupe. It has factory limited slip and a nice thick sway bar. This car is rock solid in the corners too.

Our 1980 Cadillac hearse is a one of the "Z" code Cadillac Commercial Chassis that they stopped producing in 1984 (everything after that for limos / hearses has been cut and lengthened by a coach company while the true-commercial chassis were specially designed long-wheelbase frames built by Cadillac), and also has a heavy duty rearend, springs and came with the thicker sway bar. It has less body roll than you'd expect from a hearse.

The only Cadillacs that came with the thick sway bar were the Commercial chassis models, cars with the livery package and pre-1985 Series 75 Limos. They may also provide the bar you're looking for for your beautiful Olds!

Sorry for that rant, I was bored at work. Will try to share some pictures and maybe part numbers later.

EDIT: Forgot to add! If you're lucky enough to live in a winter/salt free climate, or your the parts car you're taking your sway bar off happens to be clean or well oiled underneath, you may not HAVE to buy the brackets from GM. Just remove them when you remove the swaybar, or as the junkyard for 'em. I just bought new ones for both of my cars because they were totally rusted on. In both cases the sway bar bolts had to be cut off before I would walk away with them. I just count my lucky stars that these are a part GM still makes... I should probably buy some extras as I plan to put one of these bars on any car like this I buy in the future... which will hopefully one day include a gorgeous Olds like yours!

elwood565

beautiful olds henryk! those last big 98's have always been a favorite of mine, and yours is a wonderful example!

no_grain, you provided a very nice wealth of info there. ive been looking for sway bars for my 71 98 and have always just thought of trying to find an old 71-76 chevy police package, which are few and far between, but i never thought of looking at the fleetwoods of the same era. very good idea...and one of those wont be as hard to dins as one of the chevy cop cars. im gonna start looking now!

Allan R

Henry, great car! Had one myself so I know some of the quirks you're describing.

1. Oil Leaks? Mine only leaked from the Right side valve cover (passenger side). Replaced gasket with Felpro rubberized one. Never leaked again. But it was a little tedious because you have to take the AC compressor / bracket off to do it. I would NOT just tighten up the pan bolts, this could cause warpage. It's amazing how much oil can leak down from a valve cover and give the impression of a leaking pan gasket. Do the V/c first, wipe the bottom of the car "dry" and check a week later to see if the leak is stll there. Then think about the pan gasket. 88k is not really a lot of miles, but it might have failed. NEVER had to replace the pan gasket on mine.

2. I agree with Rob, check under the car. Check to see if any of the linkages are loose. Also check the heat deflector above the cat. It might be loose. Do you hear the popping on acceleration? Mine did that once: it was a blown O ring caused by a plugged cat. Popping otherwise might be caused by poorly set carburation and raw gas going through the exhaust.

3. can you be more specific on this point? Most of the time when the fuse blows you've got a short in the circuit. I never had any problems with my 98's PW or PDL and I also had the fibreoptic package for door lock lights.

My car was still running flawlessly when I sold it 6 years ago, and it had 300,000k on it. Good maintenance does = long life. Only thing that cost me any money was I had to rebuild the 200R4 at (yup right around 85k). The tranny shop upgraded the clutches, planetary and sun gears. After that all I did was change fluid every year. That was 1986. Tranny ran perfect all the way. New owner says the car ran great. He sold it 2 years later for more than I sold it to him.

Hope some of this helps.

henryk8398

With the guidance I've found here, my plan is to replace the valve cover gaskets with rubber ones and take a look in the area of the catalytic converter for whatever is loose. I'm pretty convinced that's where it is. I'll definitely start at the cat.

As far as being more specific, I'm not sure what else to tell you. When I first got the car, I put a new fuse it and the interior lights/lamps worked for almost an entire day. The only owner modification I can find a a heavy gauge (probably 8) wire for a killer sound system the previous owner added. It's possible that something got chafed, etc, but I didn't see anything like that. Otherwise, I'm still not sure how I'm going to tackle the fuse issue. I was going to disconnect lights and jamb switches to try and at least isolate it.

I have no idea what the fiber optic package is. I guess I don't have it.

I do have an additional issue, though. Sometimes my fasten seat belt sign comes on and stays on. Not sure what's going on. Luckily the electrical troubleshooting manual I won from eBay showed up. When I get some time, I'll look into that, too.

One more question, are the lights in the doors what are known as "courtesy lamps"? The are a red and white lens in each door below the rest. They are definitely tied into the dome lamp circuit.

Thanks again!

Lady72nRob71

The fiber optic package had the fender mounted "lights" that lit up with the headlights and parking lights. They were driven by those lights themselves by fiber optic cables and could be seen from the driver so he could see if the lights were functional. The rear had them also that were mounted on the rear deck and could be seen in the rearview mirror.

All of the lights that come on when you open the doors are known as courtesy lamps.

That manual you just got will help you a lot!
Good luck with the diags!

csstrux

I am not 100% sure, but you could probably get suspension parts for the f41 suspended caprices of coresponding years, that or go for the wagon parts, either will have beefier brakes and and suspension components. Any boneyard should have a hollander interchange book to confirm. You will likely find a wire that has been cut, or the sheathing worn through if yot have a shorting circut. Your best bet is to get a chassis manual, with a wiring diagram, and start tracing the wires frome one end to the other. the wheel patern...I think could go either way, depending on how the car is optioned, I am no expert though, any tire shop should be able to tell you in a mater of minutes. I dont know the method of measuring yourself, we had guages that would fit over the studs at the shop i worked in. If I said any more I would probably start digging a hole as I know just enough to get myself into trouble. Hope some of this is usefull. nice find by the way