Bubbanym

Hi Folks,

It is with a sad heart (but a grateful one that nobody was hurt) that I post this to the forum. We have a 1971 Cutlass Convertible daily driver/resto project that has been wrecked. We need advice on how to handle the car. Is it beter to part it out, or is the damage contained enough so that the car has value to a restorer in its whole condition? It is not drivable, and is in NC. It is (err ...was) a numbrs matching car, with a new top, new seats, working AC, and tons of other new parts. It is the spilt bucket/console design, and was headed toward being a 442 clone. I am afraid that we do not have the heart, space, time, or money to attempt a re-restoration. We are just trying to get the car to someone who needs or can appreciate it, and recoup a few dollars spent. So we are turning to the experts, for advice on how to proceed, and possible a quick resolution. My son was driving his little sister to school, so it has been a little upsetting fo us all.

I can provide any details you need, as well as more pics for evaluation. Thanks in advance for your considerate replies and information.

http://s1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/Bubbanym/

rjohnson442

Check the frame to see if it got warped. Other than that It looks to be in good shape. My Fan cut the Rad. in half when I smacked into the back of a f-250. hood landed about 20ft behind the car... I'm sure someone would love to have the whole car as is and give you a good price on it too.

oldsguybry

Sorry to hear about the loss . Glad no one was hurt , and it seems the frame is toast and would not be salvagable . I'm no expert in this area , but there are a lot of great parts on the car . If anything I would part it out for sure .

69442C

Glad no one was hurt because cars can be replaced or repaired. I tend to look at a car like this maybe a little differently than others but to me, the car can be saved. Since it's a convertible, it makes it a little more desirable and as a result, more worth considering for being repaired. I think it would be a shame to part it out. The frame will likely need to be replaced along with the obvious complete front end and quarter panel.

A few questions:
Were the body panels on the car original to the car or did it have body work in the past?

What work was done to it as part of the restoration you mentioned?

Do you have an idea of what type of money you would want for the car?

How many miles on the car?

Brian

rocketraider

Part it. A convertible with frame damage like that would be difficult to repair properly and would probably never track right even with a known good and true frame under it.

But you have to consider that for me, when a car is crash-damaged it is never the same again and I want it gone and out of my life.

Just curious what happened? and what hit it?

Bubbanym

Thanks for the replies. As I expected, I am getting both sides of it. The frame is bent, and as far as I can tell it is just in front of the A arms, but there may ba a longitudinal (?) shift as well. No lift, so only what we can see where it sits. It appears to be OK form the engine back as far a alignemnt with the drivetrain. No frame expert here, and definitely not trying to cover up anything.

As far as the improvements and condition: The car was parked for a LONG time, and shows 80K, but I cannot determine if it has rolled over or not. Drove great, no oil leaks, very dependable. My son drove it to high school for 3 years. It was originally owned in SC, and was intended for a man's son that never learned to drive. The original color is copper, but the son was allowed to paint it and it was painted red on the outside. Again, never bothered with it with a young driver. Mechanically we added a new top (black instead of white) with new cylinders, pump, and switch. pulled the interior and added POR 15 to all surfaces, added insualting foam, new carpet, recovered the seats in black, and restored the door panels by tinting and adding black carpet. Engine, tranny, carb, and AC all OK and functional. Was ready to replace radiator (small leak). Added alternator, voltage regulator, battery. The usual maintenance ...

Not a true retoration, but driver mode until ready to paint and replace door panels, window wipes, etc. All metal was original, with no body work done - it was a true builders car that could go wither way - resto mod or original. We just didn't care for the copper and white/black of hte original, so we were headed toward the reto-mod camp, with 442 hood and tail, removing the side trim and going with a black cherry color (sigh)..

Would much prefer to sell the car outright. Really not sure what it is worth. Willing to entertain offers. Maybe I should move it to the FS/FT forum? Just following the rules....

Bubbanym

My son was driving my daughter to school. Sitting at a stop sign, then he pulled out in front of a Honda. Must have been very close, and I assume the window column blocked the car. THe Honda hit the right front and spun the Cuttie around and the back of the Honda hit the rear quarter panel of the Cuttie (really disappointed about that). Just unfortunate - we have been talking about selling it for a while as he was loosing interest, and I would want to do a frame off if I kept it. Wish we had put it up here sooner!

rocketraider

If it were a closed car, I wouldn't be quite so quick to condemn it. But even with top up and latched and the top frame absorbing part of the impact, I'd be concerned about unseen damage in the rocker panel area that would cause body alignment problems down the road. It's that unseen damage you have to worry about, especially on a convertible which isn't that structurally stable in the first place.

I had a 1984 T-top TransAM that took a hard hit in the driver side lock pillar. The car should have been totalled but adjuster didn't want to. I kept telling him that with the wrinkles in the roof, the car had underbody damage but he elected to fix it.

Cost them $9000 in body work on a 1-year old car plus 3 months of car rental. When it came out of the body shop 3 months later, I took it down the road and the car had an obvious dog-track to it and driver's door din't close well. It went back in the shop. The day it came out that time, I put it up for sale for the loan payoff and never looked back. It should have been totalled before spending all that time and money on it. $9k payout on a car that sold a year before for $14k, and the loan payoff was less than $6000.

Anyway- hope no one got hurt except for their pride. That could have been a really nasty crash.

droptopron

I am glad everyone is OK. I would get the car looked at by a body shop that deals in classics, but be ready for bad news. If in fact it is totalled I would sell it to someone that has experience parting cars. Its a lot of work to do and you could be looking at half a car for a long time.

69442C

Oh, it's totalled, no question on that. Question is can can it be repaired or is it for parts only.
I hear the arguments about not fixing the car but I would be more concerned if the impact to the car was directed more toward the main body. In this case, the impact was ahead of the engine and from one side to the other. It's ugly, it needs a lot of work and it needs another frame. I wouldn't waste one minute trying to figure out if the frame could be straightened. When I look at this car, I look at the condition of the main body and see if there is evidence of it flexing badly, because it is a convertible. It doesn't seem to have a broken windshield and if that is so, then the cowl did not move. I would also like to see pictures of the door to quarter gaps and if they look correct and if the paint on these edges is broken or shows evidence of the 2 coming together. I've fixed wrecks like these numerous times and I worked in the auto body business when these cars were just a few years old. Back then, the front frame sections were sold by GM and they could be replaced and it was done frequently. To me, swapping out a frame is no big deal but that's just me. And If I lived closer to where this car is, I may have already bought it...to fix and keep.
If this car were a unibody car like the previously mentioned TA, I wouldn't touch it. But body on frame cars are different.
Can you confirm if the windshield is broken or not and possible post pictures of both door to quarter panel gaps?
Brian

allyolds68

I doubt the tub has any structural damage except in the rear. The doors still line up fine, how do they open and close? (obviously the driver's side doesn't look like it will open). The frame is gone. With the crease on the driver's side I can only imagine the passenger side is worse.

I guess it depends on whether you want to take on a major project. A lot depends on how solid the tub is to begin with. If you save the boxed frame section from this car any 68-72 a-body frame will fit it. I'd be more inclined to find a decent Cutlass Supreme hardtop for parts and swap everything over using the 1/4 from the hardtop as a donor. I'm pretty sure the 1/4's are close enough, if not the same.

droldsmorland

To properly access the damage you need to pull the damaged sheet metal off basically pull the whole dog house. Then get it on a frame rack and start examining and measuring. If it’s just front horn damage that can be pulled. It does look like most of its sheet metal and some frame tweak for sure...If it’s shifted at the fire wall supports than that frame is most likely junk. Hard to tell from pics. What’s the passenger side frame horn look like? You’d be surprised what a good frame straightener can do. I’ve pulled worse successfully. Then there is all the suspension. The A arms are most likely junk etc...If it was mine Id put another frame under it if it was at all questionable and rebuild the rest provided the rest is rust free.
I sent you a PM too.

Bubbanym

The doors are not affected (the driver side door IS dented where the rollback crew tried to get into the driver side) and the seams look good (or look like they did originally). Passenger side works as normal. There is no glass breakage and the tray under the windshield looks untouched. The front quarters were pulled off of the top mount bolts and left the tub intact I think. In the coming days I will try to get some of the sheet metal off and the radiator removed so that I can get good pics of the RH side horn on the frame. The steering box is twisted, so I guess I need to remove the column shaft to turn the wheels straight. Then I think the damage can be properly analyzed, Thanks again for the great feedback and kind words. More pics will be posted to the photo album soon.

69442C

Just my opinion here but the minute you start to tear the car down, it now starts down the path of becoming a parts car. If you want to sell the car as is, don't pull it apart. No need to see many more pictures of the frame as it just needs to be replaced. Finding shops today that still have the fixtures to pull these frames is getting tougher. Most shops are equipped to deal with unibody vehicles so they don't want to get involved. If we could find a way to get it to Maryland without too much cost, I'd be interested in making you an offer.
Brian

oldcutlass

What you need to look at is the front wheel tracking and see if the whole frame shifted to the drivers side. What you can do is get a doner car and transfer parts.

compedgemarine

I have fixed worse, my 70 SX conv. took a harder hit than that (dont ask). I had to replace the frame and pull the pass. side of the cowl forward a little but the rest of the body was fine. if you have a good welder around and can not find a conv. frame you can have a good welder remove the frame reinforcements from your frame and weld them into a coupe frame. swap the drivetrain over and a new front clip and you can have it back together pretty easily. that said, once you have one all apart they some how turn into a full restoration, at least with me.

Bubbanym

UPDATED PHOTOS ON PHOTOBUCKET PER REQUESTS...
http://s1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/Bubbanym/

Entertaining offers for the whole car. Thanks for all of the responses!

QMaster

Sorry to hear about your loss. Looked like a nice car.

Mike77

Sad ending to a nice car. Glad everyone was all right.
Take off the good parts and crush it some more. That old girl is done!

Mike

Allan R

I'm surprised to hear you say that. Put a new frame under it and replace the front end sheet metal. Check steering and suspension and replace what's necessary. The car is a write off as far as most people would look at it, but I'd guess that over 70% of it is still good. That's a great launch point for someone who would like a solid project. Too many of these cars get parted out because the owner can't justify fixing it. Besides, parting out a car is labor and time intensive.

Eightupman

Id rather have this one than the one I'm about to replace the ENTIRE floor in. I have a good frame... body.. not so much. Between this one and mine I'd have a REALLY nice daily..

John

Olds_71_442

Yeah....I agree. This car would be a perfect candidate for a frame off restoration. Most of us who have restored our cars have done bigger jobs than this one. It's just that this car looks bad right now.