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My Cutlass :)

Old January 10th, 2019, 11:37 AM
  #41  
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I would suggest a photo of the block casting number first.



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Old January 10th, 2019, 11:40 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
No Julie, a VIN is a sacred part of the cars heritage. GM would never make that mistake, neither would a dealer change out the VIN plate. I would be really curious to see what the VIN actually is, especially since you believe it is a Swedish clerical error at the dealer or DMV. I can't see that happening as these details are checked quite carefully on a Bill of Sale. I agree it's a lovely car and not the same kind of following as exotics. Even in North America they don't have a large following.
I have in my possession a title to *something* that belonged to my father-in-law at some point. While clearing the estate and fixing / selling all the toys he had, I wound up with an extra title. Either someone stole something from the property, he sold it, or the Michigan Secretary of State flubbed and put the wrong VIN on the title. I decided it was the latter of the three options, because the VIN was *close* to one of the motorcycles or quads. That's the thing with humans... we make mistakes. That stuff gets typed into the computer, or physically hammered out on a typewriter back in the late 70's, and it's entirely possible that while processing, the clerk looked at the wrong piece of paper sitting on his/her desk.

Let's just hope for Julle's sake that the issue is with paper documents and NOT the VIN tag on the car. Still may present some problems if the title document shows the incorrect number as well, because then Julle has paperwork that does not match the vehicle. This will also call into question legal ownership.

If this was my situation, I would be paying a visit to the storage location TODAY to get to the bottom of this.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 12:07 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Weezer View Post
I have in my possession a title to *something* that belonged to my father-in-law at some point. While clearing the estate and fixing / selling all the toys he had, I wound up with an extra title. Either someone stole something from the property, he sold it, or the Michigan Secretary of State flubbed and put the wrong VIN on the title. I decided it was the latter of the three options, because the VIN was *close* to one of the motorcycles or quads. That's the thing with humans... we make mistakes. That stuff gets typed into the computer, or physically hammered out on a typewriter back in the late 70's, and it's entirely possible that while processing, the clerk looked at the wrong piece of paper sitting on his/her desk.

Let's just hope for Julle's sake that the issue is with paper documents and NOT the VIN tag on the car. Still may present some problems if the title document shows the incorrect number as well, because then Julle has paperwork that does not match the vehicle. This will also call into question legal ownership.

If this was my situation, I would be paying a visit to the storage location TODAY to get to the bottom of this.
While I agree that human error is always a factor, I can't help but wonder just how many Oldsmobile cars were sold in Sweden back in 1978. Likely way more Volvo, Peugot, Nissan, Yugo, Datsun etc than Olds. That's why I find it hard to believe that this registration was so far off. If it was just a matter that the model year was entered incorrectly that would be one thing. But the Body style, engine, and last 6 digits being wrong? Thats something that is really hard to just mix up a few digits. Anyway, my 2¢
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Old January 10th, 2019, 12:08 PM
  #44  
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Joe, Yes that's fine for the engine. I was referring to whether the engine / trans were matching. If they are it's likely that the driveline may be original to the car.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 01:43 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
While I agree that human error is always a factor, I can't help but wonder just how many Oldsmobile cars were sold in Sweden back in 1978. Likely way more Volvo, Peugot, Nissan, Yugo, Datsun etc than Olds. That's why I find it hard to believe that this registration was so far off. If it was just a matter that the model year was entered incorrectly that would be one thing. But the Body style, engine, and last 6 digits being wrong? Thats something that is really hard to just mix up a few digits. Anyway, my 2¢
Could be the dealer screwed up way back then? The '77 was still sitting on their lot, and someone pulled the wrong paperwork when this '78 was sold to the original owner? Hence, the '78 was titled to the new owner with the paperwork / VIN info of the '77 (not the VIN tag on the car, just a paperwork mixup). Good golly, I hope that's not the case, but how in the hell would Julle wind up with this '77 VIN number on paperwork?? I cannot imagine the lengths one would have to go to in order to fix a 40 year old blunder of this nature.

Another scenarios: whoever Julle bought this car from, also had a '77 with the VIN being discussed, and simply gave the wrong paperwork during the sale?

For what it's worth, this Hemmings article listed the '77 Cutlass production figures at 632,742, and above 500,000 in '78. It doesn't mention if that is N. America-only, or global sales figures, but those are impressive numbers and means there *could* have been a fairly large market opportunity behind Volvo and Saab in the late 70's.
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hc...s/3638161.html
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Old January 10th, 2019, 02:00 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Joe, Yes that's fine for the engine. I was referring to whether the engine / trans were matching. If they are it's likely that the driveline may be original to the car.
I think it's more important to know WHICH engine and trans are in the car - 350 vs 260 vs 305 Chevy
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Old January 10th, 2019, 02:02 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Weezer View Post
For what it's worth, this Hemmings article listed the '77 Cutlass production figures at 632,742, and above 500,000 in '78. It doesn't mention if that is N. America-only, or global sales figures, but those are impressive numbers and means there *could* have been a fairly large market opportunity behind Volvo and Saab in the late 70's.
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hc...s/3638161.html
That's when the Cutlass was the number one selling nameplate in the US, and Olds was number 3 in total sales behind Chevy and Ford.

If the title doesn't match the car, that's a different problem, obviously, but still a problem. In any case, it's all speculation right now.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 02:19 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
I think it's more important to know WHICH engine and trans are in the car - 350 vs 260 vs 305 Chevy
Why? What difference does it make since they were all offered with that potential to happen? I think it's more important to know if the drivetrain matches. Potato Potahto

Julie, I'm sure you're probably wondering why you posted here but honestly I'm glad you did. It creates quite a discussion and I hope it's of some value to you to find out more about your car. Like I said originally I had a 78 Calais and I loved that car. It had the 305 Chevy 4bbl but it was a fantastic runnning car and rode so very nicely. I only wish I'd kept it but hindsight is 20/20. Regardless how things pan out with your VIN ID you have a great car. Got any pictures of the interior? You mentioned you have the original wheels for the car. Are they SSIII (body color coded super stock)?
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Old January 10th, 2019, 02:39 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Why? What difference does it make since they were all offered with that potential to happen? I think it's more important to know if the drivetrain matches. Potato Potahto
When you go to buy an oil filter or spark plugs, the "matching number" thing is irrelevant.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 03:12 PM
  #50  
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Good point. I'm sure it's had more than a few oil changes in its lifetime so that info should be documented in the maintenance file.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 03:29 PM
  #51  
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No matter what happened, he has the car licensed, plated and insured to drive it in Sweden.
Julle, I wouldn't open up any cans of worms here, just drive it and enjoy it. Not a concern while in your possession. Unless you decide to sale the car, cross that bridge when you get their.
Enjoy it Julle, you have a really nice body style, and its an Oldsmobile . It doesn't get much better than that !

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Old January 10th, 2019, 10:44 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Why? What difference does it make since they were all offered with that potential to happen? I think it's more important to know if the drivetrain matches. Potato Potahto

Julie, I'm sure you're probably wondering why you posted here but honestly I'm glad you did. It creates quite a discussion and I hope it's of some value to you to find out more about your car. Like I said originally I had a 78 Calais and I loved that car. It had the 305 Chevy 4bbl but it was a fantastic runnning car and rode so very nicely. I only wish I'd kept it but hindsight is 20/20. Regardless how things pan out with your VIN ID you have a great car. Got any pictures of the interior? You mentioned you have the original wheels for the car. Are they SSIII (body color coded super stock)?
Here are 2 pics of the interior


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Old January 11th, 2019, 12:10 AM
  #53  
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Nice interior, now that's comfort !
Cool tree freshener, that's the icing on the cake, even thou I'm Canadian.
I would stuff a Posi carrier in the rear with a 3:42 ring gear , just to plant myself back into that comfort off the line haha.

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Old January 11th, 2019, 01:01 AM
  #54  
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Hello and welcome!

I live on neighbour, eastern one. Nice looking car by the way.

Just to add some food for thought, ive had two Volvos, 760 and 144, which were registered way earlier ( about half year, and another was something around like that too) than the model year they were resembling was even published. Both i bought from first owner, and had all the documentation to prove nothing was altered. They must have been some pre-production cars maybe sold behind desk? Anyways, just some food for thought, that everything IS possible.

Last edited by Inline; January 11th, 2019 at 01:29 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 09:24 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Easier said than done. Apparently the car is in storage for the winter now.
Spring came early this year haha.. I Went to the barn and took a few pics


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Old January 12th, 2019, 10:00 AM
  #56  
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I'm trying to understand how & for what reason we've assigned the OP the sex of 'female'?
Perhaps a look at the spelling of the OP's name might provide some clues. The OP's name is NOT "Julie". The OPs name is "Julle". So, it isn't "her" - thank you very much, indeed.
I always thought Julle was a male Swedish name, but perhaps it's also female. I have a couple friends who are Swedish (males) with the name Julle. But, then again, I have a couple friends from Maastricht, ND whose names are Michel which is very confusing to me. LOL

Would the real Julle please state your sex. Thank You!

Last edited by Vintage Chief; January 12th, 2019 at 10:05 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Vintage Chief View Post
I'm trying to understand how & for what reason we've assigned the OP the sex of 'female'?
Perhaps a look at the spelling of the OP's name might provide some clues. The OP's name is NOT "Julie". The OPs name is "Julle". So, it isn't "her" - thank you very much, indeed.
I always thought Julle was a male Swedish name, but perhaps it's also female. I have a couple friends who are Swedish (males) with the name Julle. But, then again, I have a couple friends from Maastricht, ND whose names are Michel which is very confusing to me. LOL

Would the real Julle please state your sex. Thank You!
I am a Swedish male. I did not care to much that some members thought I was a woman
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Old January 12th, 2019, 10:14 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Julle View Post
I am a Swedish male. I did not care to much that some members thought I was a woman
Julle, thank you very much for the clarification. My two friends of the name Julle, are also male. Have a great day.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 10:19 AM
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I'm no expert in decoding numbers or what VIN tags on a '78 are supposed to look like, but those hex screws holding the body tag on look suspicious. I always thought they were riveted or tack-welded to the cowl.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 10:31 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBs68S View Post
I'm no expert in decoding numbers or what VIN tags on a '78 are supposed to look like, but those hex screws holding the body tag on look suspicious. I always thought they were riveted or tack-welded to the cowl.
Notice the complete difference in FONT style of Julle's dash tag with any other dash tag and compare the dash tag font with the cowl tag font. They are completely different. Finally, from the distance in the picture of Julle's dash tag, the tag should be in the normal dash recessed position - which, it does not appear to be.

Compare the FONT of Julle's VIN dash tag to my VIN dash tag (and, I believe all other GM motor vehicles):


Last edited by Vintage Chief; January 12th, 2019 at 10:36 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 10:48 AM
  #61  
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Here are my numbers. Unless I'm out in left field (others will most likely confirm!):
(1) That VIN cowl tag is the original and the windshield tag is not for this vehicle; or,
(2) Neither one is original; and,
(3) We need to see both the VIN Derivative from the Engine and the VIN Derivative from the Transmission to provide further insight into any possible 'guesses' towards and resemblance of any authenticity (if any exists).
The VIN Windshield tag should demonstrate the numbers 3AM47 - should they not?

These are the numbers of my car, Julle. Notice how the VIN derivative numbers support both the VIN windshield tag and the VIN cowl tag; but, that is primarily because my transmission and engine are the original products during assembly of the vehicle. Is there a tag on the driver's side door of your vehicle? Can you get the VIN derivative numbers for the engine and transmission? The engine is rather simple, the transmission not so simple.

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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:01 AM
  #62  
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At the end of the day though, Julle, as others have requested, we'd need to see a picture of both the VIN windshield tag and the VIN cowl tag. You can clearly see, your tags do not support one another. Here are pictures of my VIN windshield tag and my VIN cowl tag. Note the confirmation of assigned numbers.


34267

34267

34267
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:03 AM
  #63  
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The cowl tag shows ST78, which is correct for the 1978 body style and 3AM47, a Cutlass Supreme Notchback Coupe, which is also correct for the 1978 body style in the first photo.
The VIN tag shows 3K57R7, which we know from previous posts is a 1977 Cultass Salon with an Olds 350 motor. Obviously the VIN does not match the cowl tag. The cowl tag matches the car. I stand by my original statements in this thread.

FYI, that VIN tag style is correct for the later cars. Don't assume that a 68-72 style VIN tag format applies to newer models.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:03 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBs68S View Post
I'm no expert in decoding numbers or what VIN tags on a '78 are supposed to look like, but those hex screws holding the body tag on look suspicious. I always thought they were riveted or tack-welded to the cowl.
That's the standard FBW method since 1973 on these cars. Nothing to worry about there.

Originally Posted by Julle View Post
Spring came early this year haha.. I Went to the barn and took a few pics

Your cowl tag - the one from FBW appears to be original and supports the idea that the VIN is not correct for this car. It also clearly shows the car you have is model year 1978 (ST-78) and body style 47 instead of 57 which supports the Cutlass Supreme Notchback coupe (AM47) instead of being a Cutlass Salon.There were only 431692 A body Cutlass made that year, and of those 32,053 were exported to other parts of the world not including Canada. The R code in your "VIN" says the car has a 350 V8 but I'm sure you have something else.

I have never seen a VIN tag like that on any GM car. I would suggest that if it was removed, the real one would be evident underneath.

Last edited by Allan R; January 12th, 2019 at 11:14 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:06 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
FYI, that VIN tag style is correct for the later cars. Don't assume that a 68-72 style VIN tag format applies to newer models.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that information.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:12 AM
  #66  
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Looking up the color codes, it appears that your car is also a different color than it was built with.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:39 AM
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62G trim is Dark Camel Tan, which appears to be correct.
69 paint is Dark Camel Poly, which is definitely a darker brown than what is currently on the car
61T is Camel Beige vinyl top.

It looks like the car might have been repainted with Code 63 Medium Camel Poly.

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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:54 AM
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Here's the VIN tag on my '78 Toronado. Same era as the OP's car.



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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:54 AM
  #69  
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Adding to what Joe posted,
AM6 : SEAT, FRT SPLIT, 3 PASS, CTR ARM REST

I'm sure the interior and padded vinyl roof are original. Just out of curiosity is the owners manual with the car, and if so does it show that it's for 1978?
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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:57 AM
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Here's the cowl tag. Held on by screws.


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Old January 12th, 2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
Here's the VIN tag on my '78 Toronado. Same era as the OP's car.


Thanks for the picture. While the 'tag' type is different, I would argue the FONT style is identical to all of the GM FONT styles I have witnessed - to date (which in the case of this thread), the OP's FONT style is completely different than any I have seen.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Vintage Chief View Post
Thanks for the picture. While the 'tag' type is different, I would argue the FONT style is identical to all of the GM FONT styles I have witnessed - to date (which in the case of this thread), the OP's FONT style is completely different than any I have seen.
OK, that's a fair comment. The open-top "4"s, for example, are inconsistent.

Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
Here's the cowl tag. Held on by screws.
Interesting. I have not seen the Phillips head screws before. My 80s-vintage Oldsmobiles have hex head sheet metal screws.
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