When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Hello, I am new. I am working on my third Cutlass. First was a 1972 Cutlass Supreme when I was married, next a 1976 Cutlass Supreme Brougham while still in the service, and recently another 1972 Cutlass Supreme. I am curious. What are matching numbers? Where are they located and what do they really mean overall. Any help appreciated, and I am looking forward to learning to navigate the site and participate as a good member. Thanks all. PS Patience with me as I am a senior and not real computer savvy.
Hi, welcome to the site. Matching numbers refers to stamped numbers on a number of components. The engine and trans are the two most important numbers that reflect on originality and of course value. These two items actually contain the last six numbers of the vin. Other items include the distributor, carb, water pump and differential but reflect on dates of manufacture as opposed to the vin. These accesorys should "fall in line" ...an acceptable amount of time in relation to the assembly date. Usually a couple of months*prior to build.
I'll try to post a pic or two of some of these but we need a little more info from you and that might mean pictures. You can start by at least giving us the data from the cowl tag and vin and we can go from there. We need to know what trans you have as to where the numbers will be. The engine numbers are found under the number one cylinder behind the power steering pump.
engine stamp
Last edited by don71; August 1st, 2018 at 12:01 PM.
Reason: pic
diff-rear end code... Any questions just ask, we got a ton of guys who can help you even more.
That stamping is for the O-Type rears. The 71-up corporate 10 bolt rears have this style stamping with the assembly plant and day of the year built (O =Oldsmobile and 068 = 68th day of the year):
Thanks for getting back to me. I will try to get photos and return post. Engine is 350, trans TH350, VIN says factory 2bbl. Vehicle made in Arlington, Texas. Have to have help on deciphering the data plate. Any photos of data plate and what is what on them? Distributer has been upgraded to a petronics electronic system.
The strict definition of "matching numbers" is that the VIN derivative on the block and trans (and any other components that had such a stamp) actually MATCH the block. Oldsmobile did not use VIN derivatives before the 1968 model year, so there are no numbers that match on 1967 and earlier cars (I'll get to the Protect-O-Plate in a minute). In the late 60s and 1970s, Olds only stamped a VIN derivative on three components - the engine block, trans case, and frame. Those are the only parts that are "numbers matching" on these cars. That means that those three components are proven to be the original ones installed at the factory (barring any restamping of numbers by an unscrupulous restorer). All the other parts (heads, distributor, carb, rear axle) CANNOT be "numbers matching" as there are no numbers that "match". They can be the CORRECT part or casting numbers, they can even be the correct date codes, but without a VIN derivative there is no way to prove that those parts were original to the car. More to the point, there is only ONE block, trans case, or frame with a matching VIN derivative. There are hundreds or even thousands of distributors, carbs, etc with "correct" numbers and date codes. Obviously there is no way to prove that the one in the car is original.
I mentioned the Protect-O-Plate. For model years 1967-earlier, Olds provided the first owner with a document called a Protect-O-Plate that included a metal plate that was stamped with the VIN, engine unit number, and trans unit number. If this item is still with the car, you CAN prove that the engine (well, actually, one head) and the trans case are original to the car. This is potentially misleading, however, as my 1967 Delta 88 has a "matching" engine unit number, but only that one head is original to the car. The block is now a 455 and the other head was replaced because it was cracked. This is an example of how meaningless a "numbers matching" claim can be.
And yes, I am also aware that some 1930s Oldsmobiles had the vehicle serial number stamped on the engine, which would also be "numbers matching".
Joe, where is the number stamped on the frame of a 1970 ?
Usually it is on top of the driver-side frame rail, in front of the rear wheel, but stamps have been found on various crossmembers and in other random places.
hey Joe, great newbie explanation of matching numbers. Thanks. But you said the protect o plates were issued only on Olds 67 and earlier. I’ve read about them being available with 68s. Can you clarify? -Billy
hey Joe, great newbie explanation of matching numbers. Thanks. But you said the protect o plates were issued only on Olds 67 and earlier. I’ve read about them being available with 68s. Can you clarify? -Billy
I could have worded that better. What I meant to say was that while 1967-earlier cars didn't have the VIN derivative stamps, the P-O-P does allow you to match the engine and trans unit numbers to the VIN. I wasn't intending to say that P-O-Ps only came with 67-older cars, but what I wrote does make it sound like that. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for the clarification. Oh while I’m picking the brain of the experts, I’ve looked over specs of particularly the 1968 4-4-2 holiday coupes and the sports coupe and can’t see any difference. Does anyone know how to tell th apart? Thanks. -Billy
Thanks for the clarification. Oh while I’m picking the brain of the experts, I’ve looked over specs of particularly the 1968 4-4-2 holiday coupes and the sports coupe and can’t see any difference. Does anyone know how to tell th apart? Thanks. -Billy
Holiday Coupe is Olds-speak for hardtop, Sports Coupe has a post. Other than this minor sheet metal difference, they are identical.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by yellowone
This is the best pic I can get.
ST 72 - 1972 Model year production
3 - Oldsmobile division of GM
42 - Car line: Cutlass Supreme
57 - Body Style: 2 Door Holiday coupe
R - Body built at Arlington TX Fisher Body Works
BDY 10129 - Number assigned to this body by FBW. Not related to VIN
TRM 977 - White themed interior
A65 - Front bench seat with center armrest (a no charge option on CS)
PNT 75 75 - Matador red lower/upper body
11B - Date build code. FBW assembled the body and interior during the second week (B) of November (11) 1971.
119?? No idea what this is. I haven't seen a 3 number code following the DBC before.
RE: VIN
Your car should start out 3J57R2H if you have a 72 with a 2 bbl. This is unusual though as the standard engine for the 72 CS is the L34 4bbl 350. You are saying you have a L32 2 bbl 350. That was something a buyer had to specify, and was also a credit on the invoice of $33.00. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want the L34 though.
From the 1972 Product guide - this is the color of your car (although on a Cutlass S model)
And this is the side profile of the CS as the 72 Product Lineup shows it. Different color than the Matador Red
August 1st, 2018, 09:50 AM
