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Brief introduction. I haven't owned a 'classic' since I owned classics when they were originally produced. My first automobile was a 1967 stripped down gold 442 with 'bench seats' (purchased used 1968) - but, what a fast, fast great automobile. After several cars later, I then purchased (in 1975) a racing blue 1972 442 with the wide racing stripes down the hood - again, another fast, fast great automobile. Now, 46 years later, I just this week purchased what I consider a VERY GOOD restored cream color exterior, chocolate interior naugahyde/leather(?) 1971 Cutlass Supreme (Rocket 350) convertible. I'm looking forward to reading/viewing ClassicOldsmobile.com threads. Cheers!
Welcome to Classic Olds. Sounds like you found a nice Convertible. We love pictures when you get a chance. If questions arise ,and they probably will, don't be afraid to ask, someone here will come up with the correct answer. Best forum for Olds owners. Larry
Welcome to Classic Olds. Sounds like you found a nice Convertible. We love pictures when you get a chance. If questions arise ,and they probably will, don't be afraid to ask, someone here will come up with the correct answer. Best forum for Olds owners. Larry
Thanks, Larry. I made the purchase yesterday. Selling some stock, bank transfer, title/registration/plates, etc. - I pick up the vehicle next week. I'll take/post some pictures when I get it home. Purchased from a very small used car dealership here (population 3800) where the owner purchased it from an auction a couple months ago. Engine bay is spotless, restore is awesome, new front brake calipers, new master cylinder, and upgraded R-134 AC system. I noticed a minor/small 'flat spot' hesitation which was intermittent on acceleration - a minor annoyance, IMO. Possibly an adjustment to the timing. Speaking of which, I haven't owned a timing light for ~45 years. I should have looked to see if the timing bracket is located on the engine! No biggie. It's probably there, if not I'll fabricate. I also noticed a minor (annoying) squeak which increases as the vehicle increases in speed. Appears (with no detailed examination on my part) to be emanating from the dashboard. Sales person has been driving it and says when he got it the noise wasn't there but started to appear. I 'suspect' it might be the odometer cable. We'll see - a minor nuisance at this point. Anyways, I ordered up some repair/service/chassis manuals which will arrive next week. Time to reacquaint myself with old-school distributor, harmonic balance, carburetor, points, & let the fun begin.
Sounds cool, congrats and welcome. Your in the right place for most info about your car. Looking forward to some pix.
Hesitation/dead spot if I'm guessing, may be accelerator pump on carb. Not too bad if thats your first task.
Sounds cool, congrats and welcome. Your in the right place for most info about your car. Looking forward to some pix.
Hesitation/dead spot if I'm guessing, may be accelerator pump on carb. Not too bad if thats your first task.
Thanks, scrappie. Carb accelerator pump, eh? Hmmm, sounds like something I'll take a look at when I get it home next week. I appreciate the suggestion.
NAPA sells a methanol resistant accelerator pump and an individual air horn gasket, so if you have a store nearby they should be able to get it for you easily:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB24049
Carburetor Accelerator Pump without Spring - Methanol Resistant
Product Line: Echlin Fuel System
PART #CRB 24049
$12.99
NAPA used to sell the accelerator pump and air horn gasket individually. Not sure if they still do, but it's worth checking.
Hi Kenneth, thanks for the reply. So, I don't have the vehicle home, as yet. And, I haven't examined the carburetor, yet. This is the first Rocket 350 I have ever owned. I've previously owned two 455 large blocks in my previous 442 (1967 & 1972) models and they were both equipped with a Rochester 4bbl. I haven't pulled the air cleaner from the engine yet. The sales statement says it's a 4 bbl; and, I'm assuming (at this point) it's a Rochester 4bbl. I have examined the engine (at the 1,000 foot level) but without any detail, so to speak. I'm assuming the accelerator pump is a vacuum pump, but I don't even know that, as yet. Again, thanks for the reply and suggestion - much appreciated.
NAPA used to sell the accelerator pump and air horn gasket individually. Not sure if they still do, but it's worth checking.
edit: Sure enough, NAPA still sells a methanol resistant accelerator pump. Not sure about the gasket, though:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB24049
Product Line: Echlin Fuel System
PART #CRB 24049
Carburetor Accelerator Pump without Spring - Methanol Resistant
$12.99
Kenneth, that's awesome. Thanks so much for sharing that information. I've never had to replace that accelerator pump on any previously owned vehicles. Thanks!
Hi oldster. Correct. I grabbed several from the auction site which the seller created before the vehicle went through the chute on auction day. If you want to see anything in particular with more detail let me know, I'll have it here at my home on Monday or Tuesday of next week. Cheers.
I picked up the car today. Pulled it in my building and began to address exactly what it is I purchased.
The carburetor is a true Rochester Quad (7041251). The number matches up to the same type carburetor employed during this production year; There is a number to the RH-side of the 7041251 number, for which I'm clueless. The number is: RC
0351
Appears both exhaust manifolds are OEM: GM 380001LH & 380001RH (D2173). Original stock exhaust manifolds 47 yrs old? Crazy (of course, they could have been R&R at some point in time).
The head appears to be original - number is 395558 2
I read someplace there could be a number near the oil filler tube (I believe)? I looked & there is no number by the oil filler tube. There is a number onthe oil filler tube itself (which I believe is going to be inconsequential to anything other than a part number for an oil filler tube).
It's been a very long time since I've attempted to find & match-up derived numbers for validation of engine & transmission to a vehicle (based upon the VIN) - but, I'll get it done. I'm not looking to make or create an original stock 71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible. I want a well running/functioning vehicle & I'll attempt to address as many flaws/faults as I can based upon my findings.
My VIN: 342671M229909 demonstrates the Lansing, MI assembly plant.
Another placard in the vehicle (when it went through auction chute) states the rear bumper is a 442 bumper. I posted pictures (link above ^^) if anyone wants wishes to validate.
When I picked up the vehicle I noticed a little more rattle emanating from the trunk than when I test drove it last week. No biggie, the jack, jack-stand, jack tie-rod and tire were bouncing around. At which point, I then decided to give another run through checking on interior lights, and the rag-top function - at which point, I immediately realized I locked the (only set of) keys in the trunk. Another half hour of removing the rear seats I retrieved them with a coat-hanger. After 46-50 years since owning a 67 & 72 442, I had no problem recalling how the rear seats were fastened/attached. Not that I didn't wire in at least a dozen different 8-track players between those two vehicles - LOL. Eight-tracks - an absolute true love hate relationship.
I'll toss up a couple more pictures I've taken of the top of the engine. The engine is running very, very, very well. I examined the accelerator pump (from 1,000 feet), manually maneuvering it a bit, etc. The linkage is working well, there 'might' be a little hesitation to the accelerator pump (in the carburetor housing itself) - but, it's something which doesn't require immediate attention.
The oil looks like it was changed yesterday (it was changed by someone in February) based upon an oil change tag.
I see no leaks around the carburetor - none.
Looks like a fairly new water pump, IMO.
Radiator looks in great condition. I'll check the thermostat and condition of the coolant.
All new A/C hoses. The A/C was upgraded to R-134A in 1998.
There is a 'fair' amount of oily 'sludge' on the bottom of the oil pan and bottom of the engine block which I'll completely clean and remove so as to monitor 'things'. LOL
The front-end sway bar is solid and well maintained within its spindles. The ball joints are in great condition and the boots are in very good condition - fully greased.
New brake master cylinder and new front brake calipers.
Without addressing much of the front-end itself, I don't like (at all) the movement of the front-end - it steers and responds like a boat. It 'may' simply be the shocks - which I'll examine further.
I've changed out front-end coil suspension springs on other cars (including my previously owned 72' 442) and based upon my crude examination of the coils - the coils are super solid and in excellent condition. Lots of bouncy-bouncy however to the front-end.
Other small annoying stuff (trim here and there, interior (optional custom light package) not working, speedometer dash panel light not working, under-hood light and trunk light not working.
Very pleased thus far with the purchase. Whatever I can do to maintain the integrity of the vehicle is time well served.
EDIT: One further item. I noticed what appears to be two 'capped/plugged' lines on the top of the engine. I believe one was from the front bottom of the carburetor and the other is the front back-side of the engine (behind the carburetor). I'm not certain of the function of each of these 'capped/plugged' lines - EGR bypass type modifications? Vacuum modifications? Don't know. I'll post pictures and do some additional research on the top-end of this engine to get better acquainted. And, that 'thing' at the rear bottom of the air breather. I remember it from my previous cars - what is that thing? Bottom of air breather in back, then looks like it attaches to a vacuum under the air breather but it isn't attached. I'll post pictures of this stuff. Anyone care to chime in - thank you all!
Last edited by Vintage Chief; July 17th, 2018 at 04:41 PM.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
The carb is from a 71 455. A 71 4bbl for a 350 would be 7041250. Not a big deal.
The number you posted 395558 2 is the engine block. It's the typical 350 block from 68-76. That's not on the head, its' on the block, just for reference. The head casting will be easy to see. It should be 7 (located by the #1 spark plug). 71 cars had hardened exhaust valves, but not intake.
Your VIN
3 - Oldsmobile Division
42 - Series 4200 (Cutlass Supreme)
67 - Model: Convertible
1 - Model year: 1971
M - Lansing production
229909 - Production number assigned on Final production assembly line at Lansing.
If you have lots of bouncing on the front end, chances are really good the shocks are no good. Rock Auto has really decent prices on shocks, check them out. IIRC the CS vert uses HD shocks, but check to be sure.
The car looks really nice. It's color on the cowl tag will tell you what color the car originally was. 71 color palette never included the color it is now.
The front seat is an A65 split bench with armrest. It was a no cost option on CS at the time. Standard seats were the A51 Strato bucket seats. Lots of these cars were built with both.
Thanks for the response, Allan.
Yeah, the number (395558 2) was on the block - which would make it the engine casting number. Not sure why I wrote head - FUBAR.
On further examination of the head, I did find a raised casting number 12 located directly behind the oil fill tube. I'm not clear what this number is.
I did find on the CO forum the derivative VIN number location. I'll check it tomorrow.
To my surprise, the engine number location is, in fact, stamped on the oil fill tube for 1968-71 V8 engines (unless the information is incorrect). I just find it odd the engine number location would be stamped on the oil fill tube.
My engine number is: 1558606 (as stamped on the oil fill tube). I'm having difficulty getting my head around the engine number location and deciphering the number - something isn't jiving in my brain. It's late, time to retire.
I'll post my pics tomorrow, as well.
EDIT: One further item. I noticed what appears to be two 'capped/plugged' lines on the top of the engine. I believe one was from the front bottom of the carburetor and the other is the front back-side of the engine (behind the carburetor). I'm not certain of the function of each of these 'capped/plugged' lines - EGR bypass type modifications? Vacuum modifications? Don't know. I'll post pictures and do some additional research on the top-end of this engine to get better acquainted. And, that 'thing' at the rear bottom of the air breather. I remember it from my previous cars - what is that thing? Bottom of air breather in back, then looks like it attaches to a vacuum under the air breather but it isn't attached. I'll post pictures of this stuff. Anyone care to chime in - thank you all!
I believe that "thing" may be the air temp sensor that controls the flapper door in the snout of your air cleaner that routes warmer air from around the exhaust manifold when it is cold. That may also explain the two capped vacuum hoses. One hose should go from that sensor to the vacuum motor on the air cleaner snout, and another hose should go from the sensor to a vacuum source.
I believe that "thing" may be the air temp sensor that controls the flapper door in the snout of your air cleaner that routes warmer air from around the exhaust manifold when it is cold. That may also explain the two capped vacuum hoses. One hose should go from that sensor to the vacuum motor on the air cleaner snout, and another hose should go from the sensor to a vacuum source.
Nice car BTW!
John- Thanks for the information. I believe you to be correct. Essentially, someone bypassed warm air flow routing and plugged at least two areas for the cold air choke system including some bypassing of the exhaust which I am am fine for the moment. I don't believe the cold air side of the automatic choke is working correctly; but again, the vehicle runs strong and I'll tackle vacuum & carburetor this winter as I plan to rebuild the carburetor. The vehicle is running fine with the bypassed ports. The vacuum system is working fine in terms of carburetor and engine performance, it's just a matter of me finding the time and deciding how and if I want to take everything in the vacuum and carburetor back to complete OEM. Appreciate your input.
It's been some time since I posted. I appreciate everyone's input. I've been spending a lot of time researching many threads on this excellent site and becoming acquainted with many aspects of various poster's input/knowledge. This site is a plethora of knowledge.
I did not purchase the vehicle to be a 'show car'. I plan to drive and I have been driving this vehicle when I feel like it. My intentions are to maintain the integrity of the vehicle, upgrade the vehicle & maintain the vehicle as best as can so I and those after me can own and drive a well-maintained 1971 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible.
I'm going to post some photos (I have taken) of some areas I have been wanting to address and some areas which have already been addressed by previous poster's comments. This will be my first time posting images on this site so I'm hoping it is painless.
At this point in time, I am interested in ascertaining how much of the engine is OEM; so, I'm still validating numbers. I believe this engine has the original Oldsmobile 350 gold color and has never been painted. We'll see what I learn from others.
First up, the oil filler tube engine number ( 1558606 ):
I'll need to research how to key out the number, but I believe the first number (1) is the production model year. I'm 'suspecting' this is the original oil filler tube with the original engine number stamped into the casing?
Second up, picture of the dash placard. I have not researched how to decipher the key - I found it somewhere on this site a month ago and I'll need to do more searching to find the key - any input is always appreciated. Thanks.
Fourth up, I believe it's the original TH350 installed from the factory (I don't know). I'll research this more, but I think (Joe & others) said the installed transmission could be validated via the derivative number stamped into the engine? I'm moving along, trying to validate information. Thanks everyone.
Nice looking Cutlass. The interior is a one year only color called Sienna. I'm jealous, as you have the very rare Sienna deluxe seatbelts which include the brushed metal buckles. Someone added the notched rear bumper from an SX model. Your car was built at the very end of the model year. I have a 71 Supreme SX convertible built in June of 71.
Nice looking Cutlass. The interior is a one year only color called Sienna. I'm jealous, as you have the very rare Sienna deluxe seatbelts which include the brushed metal buckles. Someone added the notched rear bumper from an SX model. Your car was built at the very end of the model year. I have a 71 Supreme SX convertible built in June of 71.
Hi Brian, Thanks. I was not aware the Sienna was a one year only for this vehicle - thanks for that. The rear seat and back have rips in them and I just ordered new seat and back upholstery to re-upholster them. The fabric on them is not the original & is of lesser quality - I believe they call it 24 where I ordered 32 replacement quality. The fabric on there now is brittle whereas the front fabric is supple and malleable.
I was told by someone the rear bumper was of a 442. I have not validated this, yet. You're saying the rear bumper is of a SX model? I'll look into that. Thanks. I'll check out your car when I get some time. Appreciate the comments.
Additional numbers from block. Is there a way to validate if this is the original installed factory block or do I need further validation via the derived number and/or can it be validated via any other numbers? Thanks very much.
These numbers are from the top of the block, driver-side, visible just below the valve cover. Numbers are identical on both sides of the block.
From left (front of engine) to the right (rear of engine) those numbers are: CFO 409 147 197 CFO 409 147 197
Removed the original AM/FM Stereo, original front dash speaker & original rear dash speaker. The paper cones in each speaker were ripped and unusable. The Stereo was highly questionable, push buttons were difficult to operate, the dials were manageable, the components were in bad condition - I would never sell junk to anyone and these components were tossed. I installed a new AM/FM Stereo with x4 speakers (x2 front, x2 rear). Quite the custom project let me tell you. I saws-alled a piece of metal from the body behind each left-hand and right-hand side front kick panels to make a larger space (hole) from the two smaller holes on each side to accommodate the speakers. Since there's really no rear deck in the interior of a convertible (in particular to accommodate speakers), this proved to be a challenge. I thought of this a long time, and really tried to manage the space behind the rear seat-back but it just wasn't possible. So, and again, man was space an issue with the two moving hydraulic cylinders for the convertible top, I managed to accommodate the speaker(s) installation in the armrests. I used the back tuning dials from the original radio. The stereo and its bezel was a direct fit into the OEM dash opening.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
Second up, picture of the dash placard. I have not researched how to decipher the key - I found it somewhere on this site a month ago and I'll need to do more searching to find the key - any input is always appreciated. Thanks.
The picture you posted is called a Cowl Tag. It's placed by the Fisher Body Works Division of GM (specifically the FBW at Lansing MI)
Here's what it 'says'
ST 71 - 1971 Model year
3 - Oldsmobile Division of GM
42 - Body style - Cutlass Supreme
67 - Body type - Convertible
LAN - Body produced by FBW Lansing
BDY 470950 - Body number assigned to this car by FBW Lansing. This is not related to VIN
TRM 989 - Sienna Vinyl themed interior
PNT 61 E - Lower body: Sandalwood upper body (convertible top) matching Sandalwood color
07 C - Time build code at FBW - Third week of July 1971. This would likely be one of the last cars built for that model year production before the factory retooled for 1972 models.
The picture you posted is called a Cowl Tag. It's placed by the Fisher Body Works Division of GM (specifically the FBW at Lansing MI)
Here's what it 'says'
ST 71 - 1971 Model year
3 - Oldsmobile Division of GM
42 - Body style - Cutlass Supreme
67 - Body type - Convertible
LAN - Body produced by FBW Lansing
BDY 470950 - Body number assigned to this car by FBW Lansing. This is not related to VIN
TRM 989 - Sienna Vinyl themed interior
PNT 61 E - Lower body: Sandalwood upper body (convertible top) matching Sandalwood color
07 C - Time build code at FBW - Third week of July 1971. This would likely be one of the last cars built for that model year production before the factory retooled for 1972 models.
Ok, on to your next post
Allan, that is awesome information. No wonder I couldn't research what I had previously found - I tried tag, plaque, card, etc. and never cowl - yet, makes perfect sense. Had this been an aircraft, I'd have gone for engine cowling from the get-go.
Thanks so much for the information.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
Third up, pretty basic from the driver-side door panel, yet it validates and helps to corroborate validation of other numbers I find on the vehicle.
This is your factory applied door sticker. It also validates the cars production and duplicates to some extent the information contained in the VIN.
07-71 is also a confirmation of the build date of the body shell at FBW, BUT the final assembly at Lansing put this sticker on the car when it rolled off the production line.
34267 validates the car as being an Oldsmobile (3) Cutlass Supreme (42) convertible (67)
1 - validates the model year 1971
M - Lansing production Letter code
229099 - this is the production number assigned by Lansing final production. The 229909 Cutlass off the production line that year. Oldsmobile produced a total of 559607 units in 1971 so you can see clearly that Cutlass production accounted for a large part of those sales. At a quick guess, including the Vista Cruiser and Cutlass Cruiser which are also A body there would be around 240k units built at all Olds facilities that year.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
Fourth up, I believe it's the original TH350 installed from the factory (I don't know). I'll research this more, but I think (Joe & others) said the installed transmission could be validated via the derivative number stamped into the engine? I'm moving along, trying to validate information. Thanks everyone.
Yes, thats a proper transmission code for the 1971 Cutlass equipped with a 350 engine.
The numbers mean: 71 - duh, LA - transmission code for TH350 1971 transmission, 228 - transmission was built on the 228th day of the year. N- I believe that is a tracking letter from the production line the transmission came from.
This is your factory applied door sticker. It also validates the cars production and duplicates to some extent the information contained in the VIN.
07-71 is also a confirmation of the build date of the body shell at FBW, BUT the final assembly at Lansing put this sticker on the car when it rolled off the production line.
34267 validates the car as being an Oldsmobile (3) Cutlass Supreme (42) convertible (67)
1 - validates the model year 1971
M - Lansing production Letter code
229099 - this is the production number assigned by Lansing final production. The 229909 Cutlass off the production line that year. Oldsmobile produced a total of 559607 units in 1971 so you can see clearly that Cutlass production accounted for a large part of those sales. At a quick guess, including the Vista Cruiser and Cutlass Cruiser which are also A body there would be around 240k units built at all Olds facilities that year.
You essentially re-validated the information you provided in Post #21 but with greater detail and I thank you.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
Additional numbers from block. Is there a way to validate if this is the original installed factory block or do I need further validation via the derived number and/or can it be validated via any other numbers? Thanks very much.
These numbers are from the top of the block, driver-side, visible just below the valve cover. Numbers are identical on both sides of the block.
From left (front of engine) to the right (rear of engine) those numbers are: CFO 409 147 197
CFO Okee dokee - it's not CFO it's CFD which is the Central Foundry Division of GM. They produced all the blocks, heads etc that needed to be cast in a foundry.
409 - To get this right, let's put it together as it should be. The series of 3 numbers is separated because of space requirements on the head. The correct way to see this is 409147. That's the standard head assigned to ALL Olds 350 engines in 1971
147
197 - This number changed on every date of production. So you've guessed by now it's the ordinal date that the head was cast. It's not uncommon to have a set of heads with different ordinal dates BTW. Julian Calendar shows 197 being July 16, 1971 so that's spot on for authenticity.
July 12th, 2018, 04:49 PM
Newb - 1971 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350
