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Oldsmobile block number
Ah ha - it's CFD not CFO - well done. This is making complete sense now. I was curious about the numbers & I believe I had read 'somewhere' on 'some' site regarding the 'three' numbers on the block and when I was reading it, it appeared to make no sense to me because I was thinking there were 'four' sets of numbers - this is now coming together.
So it's CFD - 409147 - 197 - a set of three numbers.
Spot-on - killer information.
Oldsmobile block
Last edited by Vintage Chief; November 22nd, 2018 at 06:23 PM.
Reason: Update image orientation.
Ya know, I have that image and for the life of me I could not understand what in the world that number meant. Now it makes complete sense. The number is 409147 - and, not two individual numbers of 409 and 147.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
The head will also have the number 7 to the left of the #1 cylinder. This picture shows the 1972 which is basically identical except for the 7 A
The only real difference between the 2 heads is 1971 only had the exhaust seats induction hardened, whereas the 72 had both intake and exhaust seats induction hardened. Not a big deal as both were essentially designed to run on unleaded gasoline./
I found essentially three CFD sites: Saginaw Malleable Iron Saginaw, MichiganUnited States19192007Iron castings. HQ of Central Foundry Division.Danville Foundry Danville, IllinoisUnited States19431996 Iron castings. Was part of GM's Central Foundry Division. Leased by Defense Plant Corporation to pour castings for military equipment during World War II.
The above two references are from Wikipedia. The Danville site was apparently for WWII military equipments
The below referenced site I'll need to read up on but is now in EPA Superfund status. GENERAL MOTORS (CENTRAL FOUNDRY DIVISION) MASSENA, NY
Last edited by Vintage Chief; November 22nd, 2018 at 06:41 PM.
Reason: Syntax
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
During WW2 all domestic auto production was halted and priority given to production for the war effort, so yes it was dedicated to the military but only for the war years. That required massive retooling and training of workers (mostly women BTW) to build the necessary tools of war, including aircraft, landing assault vehicles, weapons and ammunition, tanks, jeeps/transports etc. Such a massive commitment by the home front to ensure the Axis powers were defeated and our front line troops got the tools they needed to survive and prevail.
The head will also have the number 7 to the left of the #1 cylinder. This picture shows the 1972 which is basically identical except for the 7 A
The only real difference between the 2 heads is 1971 only had the exhaust seats induction hardened, whereas the 72 had both intake and exhaust seats induction hardened. Not a big deal as both were essentially designed to run on unleaded gasoline./
OK. I'm going to check out the number 7 in the morning since it's in the back of the engine, it's cold and I'm not in my greasy grubs.
During WW2 all domestic auto production was halted and priority given to production for the war effort, so yes it was dedicated to the military but only for the war years. That required massive retooling and training of workers (mostly women BTW) to build the necessary tools of war, including aircraft, landing assault vehicles, weapons and ammunition, tanks, jeeps/transports etc. Such a massive commitment by the home front to ensure the Axis powers were defeated and our front line troops got the tools they needed to survive and prevail.
My mother's father worked at the Savanna (Illinois/Iowa) WWII Army Munitions Plant - the largest munitions plant in the country (7500 men) during WWII.
I am familiar with Canada's WWII efforts, as well - as I have friends who reside in Maastricht, Nederlands and I have reviewed and visited the memorial in Margraten which contains both the United States and the Canada battles along the Maas River and Rhine River.
Pretty sure I violated the Rules as pointed out by oldcutlass. I'll post further pictures & requests for information in the best appropriate forums. Thanks for the information everyone - esp. Allan.
People continually ask me who needs AC in a convertible.
Yeah, I used to hear that a lot, too. Must be folks who never lived where it's brutally hot and/or humid most of the year.
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
OK. I'm going to check out the number 7 in the morning since it's in the back of the engine, it's cold and I'm not in my greasy grubs.
It is on the front drivers side as well, which is much easier to see.
While you're looking around that area, snap a pic of the VIN pad on the block. This will show you if it's the original block or not as it has the VIN stamped on it.
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
The second character of the VIN derivative stamp is the year. A 1974 block would have a "4" in that location. Here's where you will find the VIN derivative stamp on the block:
Here's what the stamp looks like after you clean the crud off of it. Note that this photo is of a 1972 block, as the second character is a "2". Frequent readers may recall that this particular block is NOT a W-30 motor...
Good Morning Kenneth- The VIN derivative # is on my list. I hadn't retrieved it as yet since I believe the alternator bracket is mounted directly over the driver-side stamp location near cylinder #1 position - but I'll have another closer look this morning. I wasn't aware the VIN derivative # was located on passenger side near cylinder #8, as well. Makes sense, same location only reversed.
It isn't. It's only on the drivers side. Just another FYI, the VIN derivative is also stamped on the TH350 housing. (drivers side)
Ah right. I kind of misread Kenneth's post - my bad. Now I'll look for the VIN derivative on the TH350 housing, as well. Thanks Allan. Coffee, must have coffee.
I was able to validate the VIN derivatives from both the engine block & the transmission & I believe they were both installed during original production of the vehicle.
Well, perhaps I should clarify. At this point I guess I cannot really say if they were the matching pair installed at the factory during production without further validation (I guess). It would appear (at least) they are a matching pair installed in 'this' vehicle.
You haven't posted a pic of the VIN tag at the base of the windshield on the drivers side. If that number matches the numbers on the block and trans, then it's all factory original.
edit:
Sorry, I missed this earlier. So it is the original engine and trans.
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
My VIN: 342671M229909 demonstrates the Lansing, MI assembly plant.
Last edited by Fun71; November 23rd, 2018 at 09:56 AM.
You haven't posted a pic of the VIN tag at the base of the windshield on the drivers side. If that number matches the numbers on the block and trans, then it's all factory original.
edit:
Sorry, I missed this earlier. So it is the original engine and trans.
Oh sure - be that way.
The driver's side door panel image (above) matches the VIN tag below the windshield, as well. Yet, what I am doing is establishing photographic documentation to establish authenticity of the vehicle. I just wrote down the VIN # from the windshield VIN tag; yet, it's good to have the photographic evidence - which I'll do, as well.
Ding ding ding...we have a winner. You now have confirmation that the engine and transmission are what the car was born with.
I am very pleased to have been able to confirm this. I don't have a 'build sheet' in my hand, I looked in the trunk, rear seat back location, under the rear seat carpeting and thus far no build sheet. I have not looked under the front seat carpet - yet. I know the carpet is not original & the rear seat upholstery is not original. I have new rear seat Sienna upholstery scheduled to arrive 12/7 from Legendary Auto Interiors, LTD.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Would you like a list of options for your car??
Have a look at this link and you'll be able to add in the RPO's (Regular Production Options) that belong on your car. Some things are standard (such as the L34 engine and A51/A65 seats). Compare what you have to this linked page and you'll be even more complete.
Would you like a list of options for your car??
Have a look at this link and you'll be able to add in the RPO's (Regular Production Options) that belong on your car. Some things are standard (such as the L34 engine and A51/A65 seats). Compare what you have to this linked page and you'll be even more complete.
I do have a copy of that image - it was not obtained from the same source, but is identical. Thanks.
I will (eventually) compile a 'pseudo' build sheet of what is 'currently' in the vehicle listing variances from OEM as I move along i.e. the original vehicle would have had an RC Quadrajet 7041250installed (which would have been standard for the 350 engine of this model year); yet, the current Quadrajet is an 7041251 (which would have been standard for the 455 engine of this model year). These types of things are no biggies - yet, documenting variances demonstrates commitment to validate departures from originals - sometimes good, sometimes not so good.
I managed to spend lots of time tearing down & rebuilding vehicle bodies & engines in my youth (TR3A's, 442's, trucks, etc). I am familiar with changing out heads, carbs, exhausts, and the like. Once I gather some additional time this winter (after upgrading the upholstering and noodling about other 'items' I deem appropriate) I'll rebuild this current 7041250because I have familiarity with RC Quadrajets - simple, easy to work on, and really not much to them, IMO - fine-tuning them isn't so bad and IMO they're great carbs. I've (meticulously) cleaned nearly as much of the entire engine and undercarriage as possible, thus far - re-torquing many bolts to spec. The engine is super solid, the transmission is solid and will snap your head back when you kick it down. There are some minor vagaries with the vacuum and carburetor I will be addressing. There is a very minor leak I have not completely isolated which emanates (I believe) from the intake manifold gasket near cylinder # 1. The TH350 has a new torque converter - that's a plus. It's always a matter of focusing specifically on the issue you want to address. With regards to the engine, my next step will involve performing a compression check on each of the cylinders to determine to what degree (if any) there may be a delta in compression among the cylinders. This will enable me to make a more informed decision regarding how 'deep' I need/want to go with addressing the leak issue - hoist the engine, rebuild the top-end; rebuild the top-end 'in-place', do nothing, etc. All in methodically good time.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; November 23rd, 2018 at 12:54 PM.
I don't have a 'build sheet' in my hand, I looked in the trunk, rear seat back location, under the rear seat carpeting and thus far no build sheet. I have not looked under the front seat carpet - yet.
Since it is a Lansing built car, there likely is not a build sheet to be found as from what has been posted over the years, that plant was meticulous about throwing them away at the end of the assembly line instead of tucking them into some spot on the vehicle. Anyway, another place they have been found is on top of the gas tank.
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
I will (eventually) compile a 'pseudo' build sheet of what is 'currently' in the vehicle listing variances from OEM as I move along.
I did similar with an Excel spreadsheet showing the standard and optional equipment on my car.
Since it is a Lansing built car, there likely is not a build sheet to be found as from what has been posted over the years, that plant was meticulous about throwing them away at the end of the assembly line instead of tucking them into some spot on the vehicle. Anyway, another place they have been found is on top of the gas tank.
I did similar with an Excel spreadsheet showing the standard and optional equipment on my car.
I can understand & appreciate each of your statements regarding build sheets. Above the gas tank? I have an image of an assembly line worker holding the build sheet as the frame w/ attached/mounted gas tank moves down the line. The worker lays the build sheet on top of the fuel tank and the body is lowered onto the frame. Build sheet may not have been needed any longer.
I'll probably create an Excel spreadsheet as I move along noting standard/optional equipment & current equipment.
Thanks for your input, Kenneth.
...71 cars had hardened exhaust valves, but not intake.
.
I believe you're referring to the valve seats, not the valves themselves - maybe both were hardened, but I don't think so? In any case, beginning in 1971 all GM divisions (except Pontiac & Buick) began induction-hardening the exhaust-valve seats of their cylinder heads. I recall this period well - the introduction of low-level/non-leaded fuel while my friends & I are thinking - hmmmmm....what about our exhaust valve seats coated in lead - what's going to happen to them w/ unleaded?
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Yes, you're correct. I was referring to the valve seats. It was 1972 when Olds had induction hardened valve seats on both intake and exhaust. The introduction of no lead was anticipated and even today you would have no trouble whatsoever using regular 87 octane in your car. I know what the owners manual says about octane requirements, but that was a different rating system. The 87 oct today is the equivalent or better than the required fuel back then. (disclaimer - unless you go to a high mix of ethanol which is total crap for any engine except the E85 flex fuel cars)
This site has a plethora of knowledge w/ a diverse group of posters and some really exceptional moderators.
On another note, I'm replacing the intake manifold gaskets & valve cover gaskets.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
You didn't need to replace any valve seals? Can't remember if you did a compression test before but something tells me you have done both a dry and wet test.
You didn't need to replace any valve seals? Can't remember if you did a compression test before but something tells me you have done both a dry and wet test.
Hi Allan- Valve seals not necessary. You're correct, from my thread 350 Stock Small Oil Leak.
Table re-posted below:
I know someone at some point in time did some type of valve, seal, push-rod work as at least one rocker arm pivot was a different type metal than others; and, it's possible several others were of a slight difference in appearance, as well. At least one without question was not original. When this work was done - who knows. Based on my examination of the aforementioned thoroughly cleaned items coupled w/ my dry/wet compression test I saw no reason to dig any deeper.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Admins don't control the file size you need. That is Internet Brands jurisdiction unless I'm mistaken. Admins can certainly advocate for you but I think the forum would benefit more from a new Posting Pics thread than mpeg. Some users may also be limited with their viewing media.
November 22nd, 2018, 06:18 PM
