newbie from Reno
January 12th, 2018, 10:47 PM
#1
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newbie from Reno
Howdy All,
Been visiting on and off this forum for years.... about to pull the plug on a 442 and came across this one.... was hoping for help and authentication.... and in general.... largest differences from 70/71 and 72......
Been visiting on and off this forum for years.... about to pull the plug on a 442 and came across this one.... was hoping for help and authentication.... and in general.... largest differences from 70/71 and 72......
January 13th, 2018, 05:00 AM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: eastern MA
Posts: 3,287
Welcome and good luck with purchase.
Biggest difference that I am aware of from 70/71 to 72 is that 72 442 was no longer a car model, it was an option. Technically you couldn't buy a 72 442 only a cutlass or cutlass supreme with the 442 handling and appearance option which gave you the badges and heavy duty suspension, all other 442 options like prior years would have to be selectively added when ordering. You would have to order a 455 otherwise it could be a 442 with a 350. 71 was the last year for 442 model which was identified clearly by looking at the V.I.N. With 72 you could not I.D. a 442 by looking at the V.I.N. it would have to be verified with paper work as you have shown. The only thing in the 72 V.I.N. which would be easy to I.D. right away is if it had an X which denotes W-30 and that gave you other options which came standard on a 442 but this is not a W-30.
The car you are showing with the attached paperwork seems to be a legitimate 1972 442. In 1972 the paperwork is all that more important to prove its pedigree because anybody can take a 72 cutlass or cutlass supreme conv. and add all those parts and say its a 442 because the V.I.N. doesn't say otherwise unless they have paperwork to prove it, which it looks like that car you are showing does have paperwork and all 442 desired options besides W-30 for that year.
Now you have to look to see if paperwork is legit and not fake, but that is a whole other story and a lot of work to do on a car if its not real.
Make sure the V.I.N. on the original paperwork matches the V.I.N. of the car.
Biggest difference that I am aware of from 70/71 to 72 is that 72 442 was no longer a car model, it was an option. Technically you couldn't buy a 72 442 only a cutlass or cutlass supreme with the 442 handling and appearance option which gave you the badges and heavy duty suspension, all other 442 options like prior years would have to be selectively added when ordering. You would have to order a 455 otherwise it could be a 442 with a 350. 71 was the last year for 442 model which was identified clearly by looking at the V.I.N. With 72 you could not I.D. a 442 by looking at the V.I.N. it would have to be verified with paper work as you have shown. The only thing in the 72 V.I.N. which would be easy to I.D. right away is if it had an X which denotes W-30 and that gave you other options which came standard on a 442 but this is not a W-30.
The car you are showing with the attached paperwork seems to be a legitimate 1972 442. In 1972 the paperwork is all that more important to prove its pedigree because anybody can take a 72 cutlass or cutlass supreme conv. and add all those parts and say its a 442 because the V.I.N. doesn't say otherwise unless they have paperwork to prove it, which it looks like that car you are showing does have paperwork and all 442 desired options besides W-30 for that year.
Now you have to look to see if paperwork is legit and not fake, but that is a whole other story and a lot of work to do on a car if its not real.
Make sure the V.I.N. on the original paperwork matches the V.I.N. of the car.
Last edited by scrappie; January 13th, 2018 at 05:05 AM.
January 13th, 2018, 07:41 AM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Calgary, AB.
Posts: 576
this is the car for sale at Streetside Classics yes?
https://classiccars.com/listings/vie...carolina-28027
VIN shows its a U-code 455.
Looks very nice. The asking price is a little high, but it's at a dealership.
Another '72 442 convertible with chrome rocker moldings that are no supposed to be.
In 1972 the 442 was an appearance and handling package option, not a full model line as before.
The W29 (442) option package was available on cutlass coupes and convertibles and came standard
with a 350 rocket 4bbl engine. This car appears to be optioned as a 442 W30, but is not a W30.
To be a W30 it would need the letter "X" in the VIN. This is a factory 455 car (u-code in VIN)
https://classiccars.com/listings/vie...carolina-28027
VIN shows its a U-code 455.
Looks very nice. The asking price is a little high, but it's at a dealership.
Another '72 442 convertible with chrome rocker moldings that are no supposed to be.
In 1972 the 442 was an appearance and handling package option, not a full model line as before.
The W29 (442) option package was available on cutlass coupes and convertibles and came standard
with a 350 rocket 4bbl engine. This car appears to be optioned as a 442 W30, but is not a W30.
To be a W30 it would need the letter "X" in the VIN. This is a factory 455 car (u-code in VIN)
Last edited by scottv442; January 13th, 2018 at 07:47 AM.
January 13th, 2018, 07:56 AM
#8
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,298
The car in question is almost too good (yeah, I'm a big skeptic on things like this
). It's an extremely well documented example of a car with an extremely desirable option combination. Very few cars were actually ordered like this when they were new and far fewer still survive with the documentation. Fake window stickers (that have been "antiqued" to appear original) do exist, so take care to satisfy yourself that the documents are legitimate (since I assume the price of the car reflects the rarity and documentation). Everything you've shown is consistent with the car as presented (correct paint code and even the correct narrow side stripes on a non-W car). In any case, the VIN shows this as a "U" code 1972, and those are pretty rare no matter what. Very nice find.
January 13th, 2018, 10:36 AM
#10
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,298
Nowhere does the ad purport to be a W-30. As I noted, the car has the correct narrow side stripes for a 442 optioned with the RPO W-25 hood. It has the correct iron intake. Everything under the hood appears to be correct for such a car, and that matches both the VIN and the window sticker. I can't comment on the rocker moldings, however. This is again why I'm always skeptical of highly-optioned cars that have had a complete resto. How many of the options were added during the resto?
January 13th, 2018, 11:10 AM
#11
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Nowhere does the ad purport to be a W-30. As I noted, the car has the correct narrow side stripes for a 442 optioned with the RPO W-25 hood. It has the correct iron intake. Everything under the hood appears to be correct for such a car, and that matches both the VIN and the window sticker. I can't comment on the rocker moldings, however. This is again why I'm always skeptical of highly-optioned cars that have had a complete resto. How many of the options were added during the resto?
maybe you don't understand the word "appear"?
was not talking about the ad wording, i wanted to be sure the buyer was not assuming something that was not in the ad.
January 13th, 2018, 11:14 AM
#12
Old(s) Fart
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Location: Northern VA
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Fair enough, but nowhere in this thread had the term "W-30" even been raised with respect to this car. The OP gave no indication that he thought it was a W-30.
January 13th, 2018, 06:49 PM
#13
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thanks guys, here is a direct link to all the pics, keep the info coming lol
https://www.streetsideclassics.com/v...42-convertible
https://www.streetsideclassics.com/v...42-convertible
January 14th, 2018, 05:41 AM
#14
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Location: Calgary, AB.
Posts: 576
good news is:
VIN # matches the window sticker, dealer invoice, protect o plate, door jamb and engine block. And the cylinder head "Ga" matches a 1972 Oldsmobile 455.
Make a fair offer and drive it home.
VIN # matches the window sticker, dealer invoice, protect o plate, door jamb and engine block. And the cylinder head "Ga" matches a 1972 Oldsmobile 455.
Make a fair offer and drive it home.
January 14th, 2018, 07:27 AM
#15
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well....prob ship it as driving it to Reno will be challenging lol, but what would you define as a "fair" offer? also, I see this engine only produces 250HP.......is that enough? not looking to drag race it but I do want a muscle car to have....muscle lol
January 14th, 2018, 08:13 AM
#16
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Fair price? well thats the kicker isn't it. Personally, if i was spending that kinda money I would need to see the car in person before making any offer. Pictures are ok, but don't give the overall feeling of worth you get when seeing it in person. How much do YOU really want it?? Is it worth a visit to find out?
January 14th, 2018, 08:07 PM
#17
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Fair price? well thats the kicker isn't it. Personally, if i was spending that kinda money I would need to see the car in person before making any offer. Pictures are ok, but don't give the overall feeling of worth you get when seeing it in person. How much do YOU really want it?? Is it worth a visit to find out?
January 14th, 2018, 09:59 PM
#18
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January 15th, 2018, 04:51 AM
#19
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Fair price? well thats the kicker isn't it. Personally, if i was spending that kinda money I would need to see the car in person before making any offer. Pictures are ok, but don't give the overall feeling of worth you get when seeing it in person. How much do YOU really want it?? Is it worth a visit to find out?
Good luck
Wayne
Last edited by 35tac; January 15th, 2018 at 05:02 AM.
January 15th, 2018, 05:55 AM
#20
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remember, you can always up your offer if they refuse the first one.
and also remember this won't be the last convertible on the planet to tweak your fancy either.
Best wishes and have fun doing it.
January 15th, 2018, 07:24 AM
#21
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I don't know how you would find this out but that car may be consigned by an owner or they may own it. Could matter in negotiations. Nice car and if it makes the cut on originality why worry about the horsepower. There weren't that many built. Can't be to many like it.
Good luck
Wayne
Good luck
Wayne
January 15th, 2018, 07:29 AM
#22
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I don't know how you would find this out but that car may be consigned by an owner or they may own it. Could matter in negotiations. Nice car and if it makes the cut on originality why worry about the horsepower. There weren't that many built. Can't be to many like it.
Good luck
Wayne
Good luck
Wayne
indeed. prices are all over the place because of emotional buying. the limited supply and high demand for 442 convertibles makes this very difficult for the buyer price wise, but your doing research here first, and that knowledge can only help you in the negotiations.
remember, you can always up your offer if they refuse the first one.
and also remember this won't be the last convertible on the planet to tweak your fancy either.
Best wishes and have fun doing it.
remember, you can always up your offer if they refuse the first one.
and also remember this won't be the last convertible on the planet to tweak your fancy either.
Best wishes and have fun doing it.
there will always be another one lol, I was always attracted to the 70-72 cutlass Convertibles.... But for some reason always ended up with other projects... My "it" cutlass was always the blue/white or green/white.. This one was the 1st orange I ever saw..... And.... What can I say.... I have a soft spot for orange lol
January 15th, 2018, 08:17 AM
#23
Randy C.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, OR
Posts: 3,245
Good move on flying out to see it first. I know two people who didn't do that. One got stung real bad on a supposedly "frame off" restoration of an ebay-purchased '56 Bel Air. The other drove from the west coast to NJ with his truck and enclosed car trailer to pick up a supposedly "all original" '56 Corvette, only to find out in person that it wasn't nearly so and he didn't buy it. At least he got a nice cross-country trip out of it!
All that aside, judging from the comments folks have made on this thread, the '72 4-4-2 looks like a real nice car, worthy of a personal look and possible purchase, perhaps with some negotiation. Don't let the "250hp" issue bother you. HP ratings were changed, starting in the 1971 model year, to basically go from gross HP to net HP (HP at the engine to HP at the rear wheels). In my opinion, the '72 455 net HP engine is close to the same as a 455 from the 1970 gross HP 455 engine (slight difference in heads).
Randy C.
All that aside, judging from the comments folks have made on this thread, the '72 4-4-2 looks like a real nice car, worthy of a personal look and possible purchase, perhaps with some negotiation. Don't let the "250hp" issue bother you. HP ratings were changed, starting in the 1971 model year, to basically go from gross HP to net HP (HP at the engine to HP at the rear wheels). In my opinion, the '72 455 net HP engine is close to the same as a 455 from the 1970 gross HP 455 engine (slight difference in heads).
Randy C.
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