Oldslincs

Hi all, I'm Tom from the UK and Newbie owner of a 1950 Rocket 88 that I've recently imported from Illinois. I've been wanting one of these fine vehicles for some time and finally took the plunge, after thinking - 'if not now, when?' I'm in my 60s and retired, so you see what I mean

I'd be very grateful for any information on the category or standard of tools that I will need in order to carry out work on my Olds, e.g. AF, UNF or UNC, or some other type? I'll be looking to buy open-ended spanners, ring spanners and socket sets. I think the last two types of tool are called box-end wrenches and socket wrenches in USA. I have a 1950-51 Oldsmobile Shop Manual for my car, which the previous owner gave me, and I've got a feeling that the answer to my question on tool standard is included in there, but i can' find it. Probably blinked and missed it.

I only have metric standard tools and old UK types called BSW and BSF currently, including my trusty torque wrench. I'm used to working on modern-ish UK vehicles - as an amateur, following workshop manuals, so I have quite a bit of experience, but I wouldn't call myself an expert by any stretch. Hoping to learn from the wealth of experience you folks have, as I start on my journey of light restoration with the Olds.

It's in fairly good cosmetic condition, and is a runner - or should I say was! It cut out on me as I positioned it to load on to the ramp of my trailer on the docks in the UK, then wouldn't turn over at all. With the ignition switched on, the starter button is delivering 6V to the wire to the starter, but no sound at all from the starting motor, so my first job is to remove the starter and inspect it, using my new set of tools .

OLDSter Ralph

Tom, Welcome.
Nice car !!!!!!
I have a little awareness of Brit terminology, since I have older BSA and Triumph motorcycles. I am considering some Whitworth tools (King Dick) to make my life easier.
A basic set of open end spanners, ring spanner and a couple (1/4" and 1/2" square drive) socket sets should work. An "ignition set" (small, about 5/32" to 3/8") of spanners could be helpful, they are slim in width and great in tight areas. I hope your torque wrench has Ft/lbs designations.

I wish I could recommend a brand available in the UK. There has been a variety of names given SAE, "American", "English". There are some "overlaps" between Whitworth and metric, but proper tool for the job is always best. Anything but the right size doesn't fit properly and can mangle the hex corners.
The spanner/socket sizes are based on the measurement across the flats of the hex (bolts and nuts). BSF, UNC, UNF are thread specifications.
I hope I didn't insult your intelligence by giving details.

Now, for your problem........ did you hear the starter "spin" (run) ? Did you hear a "Click" from the starter solenoid ? 1. check the battery for electrolyte and charge. 2. check the battery connections for corrosion. 3. check starter and solenoid connections for corrosion.

Tom, another thought.............. how much petrol in the petrol tank ? Going up an incline onto a trailer with low petrol could be the problem. I don't think the previous owner shipped it with a full tank of petrol. Perhaps some fresh petrol ?
Good luck, let me know what you figure out.
RALPH

redoldsman

Welcome. Nice looking Olds. The prior owner gave you one of the most important things you could have which is the factory shop manual. The starter problem could be a solenoid. It should be pretty easy to find some SAE tools. You may have to go on line to find them. Northern Tools dot com (http://www.northerntool.com/). They have some pretty nice sets that have everything you need in them. Good luck with your car.

oldcutlass

The start issue may be a bad ground or the starter.

Oldslincs

Thanks for the great information and encouragement guys. I very much appreciate it. I've already made a shopping list and looked online to see where I can get the tools in the UK.
About the starting motor problem, it turned over the engine and it started ok on the docks in the UK at first, but after I stalled the engine on the ramp, it wouldn't turn over at all and there's not a sound of any kind coming out of it now, when the starter button's pressed - no clicks or whirring - just silence.

From that, I was hoping it was an electrical connection problem with the button itself, but first I checked the battery and it was ok; delivering 6.24V. Then when I checked the starter button with a multimeter, it was working as it should - delivering over 6V on the output side when pressed, and down to zero when released, so that made my heart sink a bit, realizing that the problem was further down the line so to speak.

I forgot to say that the prior owner also gave me a Fusick catalogue covering 1935-1960 Olds, so if it's a solenoid problem, I know where to get one, or I might get lucky and find it's a loose connection. Fingers crossed!

D. Yaros

A nice looking ride. Congrats!

It sounds as though you are doing the right things to diagnose the problem.

RULE OF THUMB: Check the easy/obvious things first; like a loose connection (be it a ground, on the starter or on the solenoid?

Do other electric powered devices work; lights, radio, gauges? If no, that is a sign there may be a loose connection or loose ground.

Do let us know what the problem was when you resolve it.

Olds64

That's a beautiful car. Welcome to the site.

Oldslincs

Well, time to come clean, no matter how embarrassing it may be. In trying to find why the Olds wouldn't start, I traced a wire back from the starter motor towards the bulkhead and found that it was connected to the little spring-loaded device as shown in the centre of the picture (with two wires connected).

I didn't know what purpose it served, so I put a voltmeter on it with the ignition on and found that it had 6V on one of the terminals but zero on the other. I closed the switch and it put out 6V on both terminals. I then pressed the starter button on the dashboard and hey presto - the engine turned over and fired up! Happy days!

Now the embarrassing part - I had the Olds parked on a grassed area at the back of my house and I was driving it around slowly, getting used to the hydramatic controls and still wondering what had caused the switch under the hood to pop open in the first place, when I stalled the engine owing to the accelerator being notchy, which needs fixing.

Forgetting I was in Dr, I pressed the starter button and nothing happened. This time I wasn't surprised to find the spring-loaded switch had popped open again under the hood, so I selected Neutral on the autobox, like I should have done in the first place, closed the spring-switch, and the car started on the button. Note to self - always make sure you select N before trying to start the car if you're not to look a complete plonker when you get it out on the open road!

The switch is obviously a safety device to stop the car being started in drive and lurching forward - or backwards - but being new to automatic gearbox controls, I've committed a couple of novice errors. As I sit here having a beer, I'm also thinking I've probably committed a third one - not identifying the control inside the car that re-sets that switch without the need to open the hood!

Tedd Thompson

Yep, It's called a neutral safety switch and others have done the same thing many times. Hopefully this will be your biggest problem and all the rest will be down hill from here.. Tedd

Oldslincs

Thanks Tedd. Is there a control that resets it from inside the cab in any way or is it always a hood-up job every time. By the way, sorry for the confusing double post above. I thought my first post hadn't submitted properly because I couldn't see it after posting, so I rewrote it. Turns out that the 1st one was awaiting moderator endorsement that's all. Another newbie mistake I'll try not to make in future.

OLDSter Ralph

Tom, "Embarrassing" is when SOMEONE ELSE finds it for you.
RALPH

Oldslincs

Yes I think you're right Ralph. Thanks for the vote of confidence . Back to what you were saying earlier about different spanner codes etc. I found the link, below, to a classic mechanic site which charts the relative sizes of BSW, BSF, AF etc. and where there are incidental equivalent sizes 'to within 0.0075in/0.2mm. Even so, there's nothing like using the correct code and size of tool for the job is there. In the comments part, that reference to 'metrinch' tools looks interesting though. Never come across the name before, but might be worth looking into.
http://classicmechanic.blogspot.co.u...ion-chart.html

rustyroger

A bit late to the party Tom, but welcome to CO from a fellow Brit.

You won't really need premium tools like Snap On or Facom,
But cheap junk will leave you frustrated with rounded of nuts and bolts. As will not using the correct spanners. (wrenches to our friends across the water ).

Halfords are actually pretty decent tools for the price, Trident, Laser and Teng are also good for a hands on diy mechanic.
You won't need many special tools, like old British cars, old American ones are generally simple as an anvil, requiring common sense and patience. I'm not including the transmission in the above statement though!.

Roger.

Tedd Thompson

Tom, sorry for the late reply but as far as I know there is no reset button /lever for the neutral safety switch on any of the 50's era Oldsmobile's. I'm not sure why yours sticks when you try to start it in the non neutral possession. If you don't get a answer here drop on down to the vintage forum where all the fifties guys hang and maybe some one with a 50's Old's has had the same issue and can help..... Tedd

Oldslincs

Thanks for the advice Roger. All useful practical info'. I've been pleasantly surprised at the quality and range of Halfords stuff recently. Time for a modest investment in AF spanners and sockets methinks

Oldslincs

That's really useful information Tedd - about the fact that the switch shouldn't stick. I just thought it was meant to stick, but then wondered if there was a missing reset/release handle or something inside the vehicle. I was also worried about stalling it in a traffic queue, and inadvertently trying to restart whilst in Drive, resulting in me having to release the hood and get out to reset the switch manually. When you think about how many times a release handle is normally pulled to pop the hood over the years, then add on the additional occasions because of the need to manually reset the neutral safety switch - that seems to explain to me why the latch release handle is missing from its spindle inside the car!

rustyroger

It may well be you can remove, dismantle, and overhaul your switch, your Olds was built when cars were repaired rather than just having new parts fitted. If you do this take lots of pictures as you go through the job, and be prepared to find broken springs and contacts in a 67 year old part.
Certainly I was able to do this on the central locking relay on a Lincoln I once owned.
The switch shouldn't need any input from the driver in normal use, its purpose is simply to prevent the starter operating except in neutral or park.

NORSTR88

HI TOM, WELCOME TO THE 50 OLDS PARTY ! Always check the battery post first. a tip--this car should have come out of the factory with a 12 v system, suggest you upgrade it. this car does not have a PARK. Use reverse and your emergency brake. your can start it in an emergency pushing it in reverse, it`s a mechanical gear, not hydramatic. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS ! As you discovered the neutral safety switch prevents the car from starting in gear ! I`ve owned ,sold, parted, more than 20 of these cars over the years--------- still learning ! HAPPY ROCKETING ! NORSTR88

ignachuck

Hmmm. I thought Olds switched to 12 volt in 1953......

Tedd Thompson

Correct..... And we have already established that the electrical system is working fine as it has for 65, years no need to replace it to 12 volts.The car does have a Park which is engaged by putting the selector in reverse and turning off the key. The park paw will then engage in the transmission and lock up the transmission and rear wheels... Tedd

Charlie Jones

Poor advice . There is really NO good reason to convert a collector car to 12 Volt .
In the first place , all the electrical components in the car must be changed.
This includes the radio , heater fan motor , all light bulbs etc.
Six volt starters will work with 12 volts . But it has to shorten it's life .
The biggest problem with these systems is when someone uses "skinny" 12V cables . The battery cables should be 2/0 or larger . Tractor supply houses usually carry these.
These cars started at 30 or 40 below zero many years before there were any 12V systems .