Dcreamer71

Guys I am new here and just bought a 1968 olds cutlass convertible. I am wanting to see if my car is a numbers matching car. Can someone guide me to how I would find out?

thanks
Dennis

droldsmorland

Post the firewall and dash vin tag pics
Numbers matching is interpreted in many different ways. !00% means down to the nuts n bolts. Others say as long as the major components are matching in number and date it's a 90% car.

IMO if the drivetrain engine, block, heads, trans, rear, and in general the car has most of what it was born with it's a close matching car and is what most of us have. Only a museum piece or a very high-end resto or untouched survivor can define this further.

Post a pic of the cowl and vin tag.
The last part of the vin needs to be stamped on the engine and trans to begin being a "numbers" car.

vCode442

Hi Dennis and welcome aboard, beautiful 68 you have.

Most on here will tell you that “Numbers matching” is an overrated phrase borne from Barrett Jackson and Mecum and other feeding frenzies. So if you enjoy the car, that’s really all that matters.

However numbers matching typically refers to the “born with” engine transmission and rear differential, but can also include water pump carburetor distributor alternator radiator and other bolt on factory items.

The VIN derivative will be stamped on the transmission and the engine. The rear is a bit tougher to verify as original. If you purchased it as a ‘numbers matching’ convertible, lets hope you and the seller documented/ verified that, but either way it’s a beautiful car. So welcome to CO and enjoy the car, and the amazing knowledge and experience available on here.

joe_padavano

The only numbers that "match" on a 1968 Oldsmobile will be the VIN derivative stamps on the block, trans case, and frame. These VIN deriviatives use nine of the 13 characters in the car's VIN. If they match, that means that the block, trans case, and frame are original to the car (or, it means that they've been restamped). There are no numbers that "match" on the carb, water pump, or any other parts of the car. There are "correct" casting numbers and date codes, but that does not prove that those parts are original to the car, only that they are among the tens of thousands of parts with the correct casting number and made within the reasonable range of dates prior to assembly of the car. Most people use the term "numbers matching" with no real idea of what it means. Then there are the people who tout their "numbers matching" car with an aftermarket intake, carb, headers, chrome, etc, etc. Yeah, the block may be original, but nothing else is, so what's the point?

BackInTheGame

Sa-weeet Car; Dennis! Welcome aboard!

08-141 K43727

Lovely automobile!! Numbers are just numbers. It is all about the cars!

Be careful going down the rabbit hole... next you'll be buying old books, cross referencing parts, and sleeping fitfully while the numbers dance in your head... lol!

Welcome!

oldcutlass

Welcome to the site. It's a Cutlass, enjoy the car, numbers matching is not that important.

Chris.H

There are numbers matching, original block, tranny, rear end. And numbers correct casing # and dates and then there are the one's that re stamped the blocks, tyranny's and rears

joe_padavano

My point is that there is only one numbers matching block and trans for every car. There are thousands of "correct" parts with casting numbers and date codes, which makes that meaningless.

leftlaneonly

WOW... That is a great looking car. lets see more pics

JohnnyBs68S

Nice car Dennis, my favorite year and color. I'm not a big fan of aftermarket wheels, but those look really nice. As far as "numbers matching", its a Cutlass S, not a W3x machine, so I wouldn't worry about it at least until you replace the missing emblems.

Question on your grill, it appears that the vertical "fins" are painted black on the sides, but not the front. Is that the case? If so, I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that liked that look. I painted the sides of the "fins" on my grille back in the early '80s because I liked the contrast it created, similar to the headlight trim rings. I've yet to see another '68 Cutlass with that done, until now (maybe).

joe_padavano

^^^This. I think we'd all be better off if people watched less Barrett Jackson on cable.

old greybeard

So my Cutlass S isn’t worthy? Should just trash the original motor trans and rear end and get a LS Chevy and a 4 speed auto.
Got news for you, I think its more worthy than some incorrect clone with mismatched drivetrain, even if it’s only a mere “S”!

Chris.H

I agree. TV show and Barrett Jackson have made people believe that they are sitting on a gold mine asking 20+k for a car that needs a complete off frame resto at a cost of up to $70k. and after all that the car in concourse will only be worth 35 - 50K..As for full originality of a car it should be up to the buyer if he/she cares or not as long as it looks good feels good.

old greybeard

True, but 2 different posters on this thread have said or indicated, “its only a Cutlass” so numbers not matching doesn’t matter. Have seen several threads saying the same thing since I bought my 69 S, at much below auction value btw.
Smells like elitism, and worse it leads to nice stock Cutlass’s being butchered to make clones, or imhop worse, restomods.
All things equal, original drivetrain is a plus, and adds value, at least to me. Whether its a 442, a S or a F85. All a matter of degree. And we should encourage originality.
Maybe Im just being pissy, dropped a tree on and ruined my favorite chainsaw today.

joe_padavano

Yeah, kinda.

Look, the whole point of those comments was to tell the OP that he can modify the car if he wants without worrying about desecrating some rare and highly valuable car. Let's be honest here, a Cutlass S isn't going to bring W30 money. People aren't going to be breaking down the door to throw money at someone because they have a "numbers matching" Cutlass. How you got from there to "might as well put an LS in it" is a bit of a leap. If keeping the car all original is important to you, good for you. Given the ludicrous claims that people make about "numbers matching" this or that in ads (the best was the ad I read for a set of "numbers matching" wheels - which were not bolted to a car!), it's become a joke. Enjoy the car and frankly don't give a rip about what other people think.

allyolds68

It's a beautiful car but there are enough emblems missing on the exterior that I wouldn't worry about it being numbers matching

old greybeard

Emblems can be replaced. Matching drivetrain can’t. Of course its not W-30 money, But the op only asked how to find out. And the message he was given was, its only a Cutly, doesn’t matter.
It does matter to some, and it does add value. Maybe only thousands, and not 10’s of thousands. But there are new buyers with limited income, and the lesser models are the only way into this club.
Luger collectors are the same way. They are serial numbered down to the firing pin. Dozens of s/n parts. Lose one, value plummets. And even then the serious collectors devalue a battle worn all matching pistol. While others search them out for the been there history. These cars are survivors, and I hope as many can be kept as original as possible.

old greybeard

Simple. My car is solid and clean. Put 442 badges on. Slap a fast modern motor, transmission and brakes on it. It would double in value. Just the way it is. For folks that do that, fine.
And most would say, just a S, no problem.
Take a original 442, swap out the motor just to faster and be more driveable, purists would go crazy.
Is that response based on value or ethics? Probably both. But they would be right to be aghast. Just because a S is worth less doesn’t change the messing with originality debate.

joe_padavano

Posts #2 and #4 told him how to determine if the car is numbers matching. Frankly, I'm sure it is.
The car has already had a repaint, likely when the emblem holes got filled, or perhaps after the accident that tweaked the front bumper. That "originality" thing is a slippery slope. Yeah, wheels and tires are bolt-ons, but they've still been changed. I'm guessing the disc brakes were added also and are probably 69-72 style. At what point does "numbers matching" cease to be relevant if everything else is changed from original? And none of this is intended to be a criticism of the car, just a statement of fact. Enjoy the car as it is, don't lose sleep over numbers.

Chris.H

I have a 68 firebird 400 HO when i got it in the UK it had a 396 GM, TH400, 70 or 72 FB rear end, and Camaro skins on the Quarters what emblems the car had left were all in the wrong place cragar wheels at the time I didn't care it was fast, loud . that was in 1997,, i have for past few years or so bringing her back to as factory as I can car has all been done but still looking for the correct Block, Tranny and rear end. I have everything else had a few people comments that I am wasting my time its just an automatic (even though there were only 650 to 684 produced) I don't plan on ever selling her, its just what I want to do . I liked her when I bought her and I like what I am doing to her now (well that sound perverted lol). as for Dcreamer71 car she is a beaut I wouldn't care if she was or wasn't #matching

old greybeard

Don’t mean to be argumentative, suddenly realizing Im getting passionate about Oldsmobiles, of all things.

OLDSter Ralph

They are all worth the same amount per ton at the scrap yard. Rarety/desirability can be affected by several factors such as condition and originality. In some models, the "numbers matching" can affect selling price a lot more than other models. "Cloning for profit" has become a problem.
All my Oldsmobiles get the best of everything. The two that are not "completely original" are just as much fun as the three "originals" (numbers matching) are. They are more fun in a different way.

joe_padavano

^^^This is exactly the point. I'm underwater on pretty much every car I own. I really don't give a rip about numbers, paint marks, etc. I care about cars that make me happy when I drive them.

oldcutlass

I think it's a blank slate to do whatever the owner wants to do with it. Face it, the fact is it was a middle class grocery getter when new.

Elitism, is a stretch. Your key words are "at least to me", we all have opinions and I respect yours.

OLDSter Ralph

Joe P. I am never underwater on any of my cars or motorcycles. You need to try "Ralph's accounting principles" on your cars........stop keeping track of costs when you approach the vehicle value. I can vouch that works 100% of the time.